Velocity spread, what you gettin'? 44 mag

[Spokerider]

Wondering what your 44 mag handloads are like for velocity spread.
I'm getting up to 140 fps spread with both H110 and Lil'Gun powders in a 6" barrel.

Now, the exact same loads in a 12" barrel give me 50 fps and 34 fps spread, respectively.
Maybe it has something to do with the powder not all getting burnt in the shorter barrel?

Wondering what the veloctiy spread is in factory 44 mag ammo. I have never bought any or chrono'd any.

[Larry Gibson]

Both Contenders or the 6" a revolver and the 12" a Contender?

Larry Gibson

[Cherokee]

It is not unusual for there to be 30-50 fps spread based on chronographing my 44 Mag loads, and many other cartridges as well. If the loads are accurate for your use, I would not be concerned. 140 fps spread is more than I would like, but if it works, OK.

[Aaron]

I suspect the shorter is a revolver and you are having issues with inconsistent case neck tension.

Aaron

[runfiverun]

neck tension is where i'd look also.

[fcvan]

There are lots of variables including barrel length. The one that jumped out at me was the contender has one chamber and the revolver has six. They are close but not as exact. I would try what one poster suggested - check your loads for each cylinder. He suggested shooting six targets, six times. Shoot the same cylinder on each target to see which was the most accurate, then develop your loads using your best one. The guy also suggested having that cylinder indexed as first when hunting. Frank

[44man]

There are lots of variables including barrel length. The one that jumped out at me was the contender has one chamber and the revolver has six. They are close but not as exact. I would try what one poster suggested - check your loads for each cylinder. He suggested shooting six targets, six times. Shoot the same cylinder on each target to see which was the most accurate, then develop your loads using your best one. The guy also suggested having that cylinder indexed as first when hunting. Frank
I have never found a problem with individual chambers. I shoot all 5 or 6. Like was said, neck tension varies too much from case to case in a revolver. Not much problem in a single shot.
It does not matter if tension is super tight or moderate, what matters is that all are the same.
It is your brass!

[Grandpas50AE]

When working up loads years ago for the .44 mag. Ruger SBH, I noticed that one particular load would give lower spreads, and as the powder charge went up or down from that, the velocity spreads opened back up to the range your post indicates, Every gun is alittle different, and what works well in one may not work as well in another. The bug question still comes down to how they shoot on the target. I've had some with low deviations not group well (didn't synch with barrel harmonics) and some with higher deviations grouped very tight.

[Iron Mike Golf]

How do the SD's compare?

[44man]

How do the SD's compare?
I never use a chrono to work loads. After I find accuracy I run them for fun.
My .44 has an SD of 11.5. ES of 29 fps. Mean average deviation of 9.9 fps. It is even case tension.

[fredj338]

There are lots of variables including barrel length. The one that jumped out at me was the contender has one chamber and the revolver has six. They are close but not as exact. I would try what one poster suggested - check your loads for each cylinder. He suggested shooting six targets, six times. Shoot the same cylinder on each target to see which was the most accurate, then develop your loads using your best one. The guy also suggested having that cylinder indexed as first when hunting. Frank

^THIS^ Lots of variables shooting form six chambers vs one. Try single loading each cyl for a 5shot string. You'll often find one chamber that just isn't right. Sure, shoot a Freedom Arms, probably not an issue, fantascticly made guns. Also H110 does not like to be run at anything but full throttle for best results. One reason I have moved off it as a general use 44mag powder. It's great for max loads but even dropping 1% can cause high vel spreads. Good neck tension/crimp is even more important w/ powders like H110.

[44man]

^THIS^ Lots of variables shooting form six chambers vs one. Try single loading each cyl for a 5shot string. You'll often find one chamber that just isn't right. Sure, shoot a Freedom Arms, probably not an issue, fantascticly made guns. Also H110 does not like to be run at anything but full throttle for best results. One reason I have moved off it as a general use 44mag powder. It's great for max loads but even dropping 1% can cause high vel spreads. Good neck tension/crimp is even more important w/ powders like H110.
Tension yes, crimp NO.
I have done the single chamber stuff for years, never found a difference. Really, our revolvers are great. Go back to the very first Colts and all chambers shoot to the same place. It is just not a big problem. I do not know where that comes from but I am willing to bet it was the load shot from a chamber. not the chamber.

[fcvan]

When I suggested shooting strings from individual chambers in the cylinder I presumed the other variables had been addressed. Those variables being same brass, same powder, same primers, same neck tension, same crimp. Not knowing the quality of the firearm its hard to tell if each chamber is exactly the same. I had a S&W that spit lead on #5. I sent it back and they replaced it. Things don't always go right in mass production machine work.

One thing is for certain, the next shot in a single shot won't jump its crimp from the inertia of the previous shot. The 4th, 5th, and 6th shots from a revolver have been progressively exposed to the inertia of the previous shots. I was merely suggesting removing as many variables as possible from the revolver by treating it like a single shot. Is it tedious? You betcha. I was merely making suggestions with the presumption that all variables from the load had already been addressed. Frank

[fredj338]

Tension yes, crimp NO.
I have done the single chamber stuff for years, never found a difference. Really, our revolvers are great. Go back to the very first Colts and all chambers shoot to the same place. It is just not a big problem. I do not know where that comes from but I am willing to bet it was the load shot from a chamber. not the chamber.
Well, I have found poor crimp & H110/W296 produces erratic results. I ahev also found quite a variation in chambers, particularly in some of the early 80s S&W. Shooting 5rd groups form eahc chamber isolates the one that isn't quite right. I shot met sil for years, my DWVH had one chamber that always threw flyers. I am sure everyone has diff exp with diff manuf, but that is mine.

[felix]

It boils down to only one factor: Ignition characteristic. Case tension superimposes all other factors affecting ignition. However, increasing the powder speed tends minimizes the case tension effect over the whole shootin' match, most especially when the chambers get bigger than spec. ... felix

[44man]

It boils down to only one factor: Ignition characteristic. Case tension superimposes all other factors affecting ignition. However, increasing the powder speed tends minimizes the case tension effect over the whole shootin' match, most especially when the chambers get bigger than spec. ... felix
Nice call Felix.

[Mohavedog]

How sure are you on the consistency of your powder charge? Did you weigh each load on a accurate digital scale? I was more than dismayed to see the variation from charges dropped from a powder measure. Powder was Unique through a RCBS measure and they varied from +.2 to -.2. That's .4 variation. Bound to make a velocity difference. That's the first variable I'd look at. Dog

[Mal Paso]

How sure are you on the consistency of your powder charge? Did you weigh each load on a accurate digital scale? I was more than dismayed to see the variation from charges dropped from a powder measure. Powder was Unique through a RCBS measure and they varied from +.2 to -.2. That's .4 variation. Bound to make a velocity difference. That's the first variable I'd look at. Dog

It's not so much the Powder Measure, Unique meters like Drain Rock. With H110 and a RCBS measure you should be able to keep Well Under 1/10g variation which would be less than 1% at that load.

[sw282]

Buy 3 different brand boxes of factory ammo. Chrono them in your revolver and in your Contender. Compare these to your loads. lf the spreads compare to the factory velocities then you may have a gun problem. lf your ammo spreads are worse than the factory figures you may need to look at your ammo. "lF" your ammo shoots better than the factory stuff consider yourself BLESSED

[44man]

I had 3 sets of dies for the .44. I have special BR dies with collars, Hornady and RCBS. I made other stuff from the RCBS dies,
Hornady is almost as good as my BR dies.
You need to know dies because they can ruin or make an accurate load, not all are the same.
What you do to brass is the very first starting point and you need to work until the actual structure of the brass grain is your limit.
New brass can drive you nuts. There is enough variation that you can't work loads. I set out to prove it several times so I took 50 new cases and shot them with a scope at 50 yards. This is what I got.

[lukewmtdew]

What is neck tension or case tension?

[44man]

What is neck tension or case tension?
It is how tight the brass holds the boolit but even bullets need even tension. I shot mostly jacketed when I started IHMSA in the late 70's. With my .44 SBH, I was no better then anyone else.
Then while seating I noticed a different feel with every case. I talked to a BR die maker and he agreed, made me special dies. I worked very hard and even made a system to measure seating pressure.
I would have a bench full of rounds labeled for seating pressure. If I shot the looser ones at 50 meters I had a good group and the tightest also had a good group but 10" away from the loose ones. Imagine mixing them at 200 meters? :veryconfu
Back to BR shooters. They choose the 5 cases that shoot the same and load them at the shooting bench over and over.
I went farther with years of crimp testing, from full profile to none at all. Shot single shot from one chamber showed not a gnats butt difference. It was still tension.
Then boolit alloys were tested with too soft nothing but trouble. Boolits would get sized down when seated and crimp did zero, zip!
Expanding bass more for soft was even worse for any accuracy. There were points I could out shoot my gun with a sling shot.
It went on to lube tests that will open your eyes wide.
I have never quit with the revolver. I will never get it perfect yet I get cast to shoot better then jacketed. My best was 2-1/2" at 500 yards.
I try to stress just how important your brass is and it is the start. Next or maybe as important are the dies you use but it still goes on from there. I can show some pictures. A drop test at 200 yards with a 1-5/16" group from my SBH.
A group I shot with the .500 JRH at 50 yards and 5 shotgun shells shot in the bases at 50 yards with the .500 JRH, I only found 3 in the weeds.