What has this world become?

[429421Cowboy]

Had what started out as a great evening tonight, then something happened to make me have to stop and think about this world we live in now.

Started out the day getting the swather serviced and cutting hay till it rained on me enough to have to quit cutting. OK this is cool i can get some shop work done! I managed to weld another plate target for long range with the rifles and a spinner plate on a truck rim in under an hour, thought life was good! Mounted my twin brother's antelope from last season on the base i had made and finally finished that and was looking into other things when my oldest brother comes in. He had 100 rounds of .25/06 ammo he just loaded and was ready to sight in his new Redfield on his rifle and shoot the pistols some and invited me along, which was great because i had some new .44 loads to try. Got the rifle sighted, shot his Beretta some and actually managed to hit a clay pigeon at 100 with it after a few tries, .44 loads were a success, i can load more next time i get a rain day!

We had just picked up and drive back to the shop when in pulls a Sherriff's Deputy:holysheep I already knew what he was going to say but my former city cop brother had to ask the question "what seems to be the problem officer??" Seems as though a guy across the river at the Fishing Access Site made a complaint and said he feared for his life too much to even walk to his truck, and it "was probably those &^@%#$@ cowboys over there" doing it. We explained to the Deputy that our small range was set up on the other side of the feedlot with dirt berms and no plate targets (those go to the big range far from town) to cause ricochets or problems and we were being safe to which he replied "Oh i know, i watched you for a good half hour" :shock: He was very professional and remembered coming to talk to my 4H group several years prior, told us he had to look but he wasn't mad at us for anything which was very nice of him.

All in all i was just kind of upset that in rural Montana someone would get that mad at shooters on private property in a proper range sighting in a rifle after work, a mile away from the FAS across the river. And yet it is still legal to shoot on the FAS with any weapon, where there is no backstop of any kind, which has resulted in our shop being shot several times FROM ACROSS THE RIVER with no way to charge anyone with the stupid act. So i guess i needed to vent and say what the heck people!

[geargnasher]

My neighbor across the road call the SO out one day when I was putting up trim in the house with a nailgun, said "the shots sounded close, I was worried".

Just because somebody was scared doesn't mean you were breaking the law, and if the cops can't produce probable cause to believe they suspect you of having committed a crime, then I'd suggest terminating the interview right there. Your evening would REALLY have been screwed up if Mr. Fife had showed up instead, being already convinced you must be a criminal and intent to prove it if you let him, and believe me, if you talk enough or show enough, they'll find something to nail you on if that's what their motivation is, and most places, most of the time, it is these days. You think the world is going to heck because of freaks on the river, just wait 'til you encounter the "out to get you" cop. Just a little something to think about in the future. Know and excercise your rights, because Johnny Law ain't necessarily in your corner anymore.

Gear

[waksupi]

When there is a report, the LEO's have to check up on it, regardless of if it is important or not.
Being in Montana, go to your county commissioner's office. Ask for the paper work to register a range. Fill it out, return it to the office. Someone from the Sheriff's office will come out to do an inspection as to if it is safe or not. Once it is inspected and approved, you will have a certified range.
I doubt it would happen, but if the range would be ruled unsafe by the inspecting officer, appeal it. It will be approved.
Once you have an approved range in Montana, it takes an act of God to ever shut you down. It gets real expensive to the people complaining, if they push it to the point that they can shut you down, as they are required to pay you the amount that it will take to replace the property at market value, for a new range. Study up on this, and know your rights under state law. Some ranges have rolled over on this, because they didn't know their rights in this state.
I have a registered range, and have had a lot of people move in around me since it was set up. I have a safe backstop, but do not permit many people to shoot here, as absolute muzzle control is required at all times. The few I let shoot, are generally benchrest type shooters, that are not doing a lot of gyrations with a firearm.
CYA.

[292]

As more city folk move to the country this will happen more often. Lets just hope the deputies keep their common sense. 2 of my friends have had simular incidents this summer. One has martin houses and was shooting starlings with a .410 in his backyard, the other was shooting handguns into a dirt hill in his backyard. The deputy in both cases was almost apologetic. In the first case the complainant was a K9 cop from Elizabeth City.

[bob208]

you don't even have to shoot. at my other house i have a machine shop. in the summer i would open the big doors both for air and to let people know i was open. thaat was back when i worked on guns. i walked by the doors with a rifle. someone called in a man with a gun. i had some cops show up on that one.

[L Ross]

Ya know gear, you don't even have to talk enough or show enough to irritate a cop, some times typing enough can do it too.

Have a nice day sir,

Duke

[Bret4207]

I can't even begin to tell you the number of times I was sent to investigate "report of people shooting". I can't think of a single time those reports resulted in me having to do anything other than get the proper information for my report and to return tot he complainant and explain there was no violation of law and as tactfully as possible tell him to mind his own business. There were other cases where people were shooting and hitting peoples houses or the NYCitiot that was threatening people at the campsite or any of a number of other things that did result in issues, but never with the simple reports of "people shooting".

As far as irritating a cop, they are the guys stuck in the middle. Treat them like you'd like to be treated and most times things go a lot smoother than when you and your Budwieser Backbone mouth off.

Better learn this now- people are kinda dumb and prone to whine a lot, especially the ones moving to "the country" from the city. Those are the ones that may be entirely well intentioned when they call in reports that your livestock is starving or that your horse is dead (sleeping) or not understand at all why their dog's can't "play" with your sheep. I have a list a mile long if you really want to hear it. They are out of their element and they use the police, code enforcement, animal control, school board, local politicians to try and turn "the country" into "the city".

My advice is to fight them. Doesn't matter if it's Montana or Northern NY, there's no reason for them to walk all over you, and they will, that is for certain.

[Plate plinker]

dang gear what for trim gun were you running? I trim all day and would never imagine that happening. Must have been a magnum?:Fire:

[1Shirt]

292 hit it on the head dead center! It is the urban cowboy meantality, the city dewller, moved into the country, the non hunter/shooter, the save the whaler, the PETA type, etc.etc.etc. that creates this problem. As a kid in western N.Y. I lived on a dirt road, a mile out of town. We had neighboors close by on both sides, within a hundred or so yards, and we shot in the back yard-mostly 22's and shotguns. So did the neighboors, and there was never a complaint. Now the road that I grew up on has a number of city dwellers moved to the country, the road is paved, and I bet a yankee dollar that there is no way in Hedouoble hocky sticks that you could even shoot a bb gun in the back yard without an LEO at your door pronto!
1Shirt!

[popper]

Constantly hear the same remark from soccer moms. ' I couldn't shoot someone, even in self defense', 'I don't want my kid in the army'. BUT they will gladly pay someone else to fight wars and be LEOs. Both my parents were anti-gun people but I understood why.

[KYCaster]

The days that I don't hear gun fire around here are few and far between. It just isn't an issue. As long as they don't complain about me, I don't complain about them.

What really DOES bother me is the attitude local governments have toward "ranges".

Any attempt to establish a designated range where the public is invited to come to shoot is met with extreme hostility and promptly shut down because of zoning violations.

Doesn't make sense to me. :veryconfu

Jerry

[Blacksmith]

Those are the ones that may be entirely well intentioned when they call in reports that your livestock is starving or that your horse is dead (sleeping) or not understand at all why their dog's can't "play" with your sheep. I have a list a mile long if you really want to hear it.

When the farmer spreads manure "IT smells."
The sheep bleating or the cow calling its calf "Keeps them awake."
The tractor hauling equipment is "Blocking the road."
You got a lot of land, planted in crops, why can't I drive my four wheeler where ever I want.
So what if I opened the gate that was closed; or closed the one that was open.

[WARD O]

Here in Minnesota at my sportsman club we are located about three miles off the highway along a gravel road. We had a city dweller move out and build a house along the road and then complain to the county board that there was road dust from the traffic. He made an issue and tried to get the club shut down. ( I think he really want us to pay for his dust control.)

There are also a couple of state operated public lake accesses along the road so they got involved as well. Basically all told the newcomer that dust comes with the territory so deal with it. But the gall of these jerks is really unbelievable. Typical liberal - figure the world owes them an easy life.....

ward

[429421Cowboy]

When there is a report, the LEO's have to check up on it, regardless of if it is important or not.
Being in Montana, go to your county commissioner's office. Ask for the paper work to register a range. Fill it out, return it to the office. Someone from the Sheriff's office will come out to do an inspection as to if it is safe or not. Once it is inspected and approved, you will have a certified range.
I doubt it would happen, but if the range would be ruled unsafe by the inspecting officer, appeal it. It will be approved.
Once you have an approved range in Montana, it takes an act of God to ever shut you down. It gets real expensive to the people complaining, if they push it to the point that they can shut you down, as they are required to pay you the amount that it will take to replace the property at market value, for a new range. Study up on this, and know your rights under state law. Some ranges have rolled over on this, because they didn't know their rights in this state.
I have a registered range, and have had a lot of people move in around me since it was set up. I have a safe backstop, but do not permit many people to shoot here, as absolute muzzle control is required at all times. The few I let shoot, are generally benchrest type shooters, that are not doing a lot of gyrations with a firearm.
CYA.
I will have to look into that for our range that is on our upper ranch where we shoot the big rifles out to 500+ yards if we feel like it as that is on deeded ground. The place we were shooting last night is built on a leased place so i couldn't really do that without help from the owners and frankly that is not worth it! But it would be nice to ensure that we always had our own range for at least the rifles because it is dang expensive to shoot at our local rifle range (think $20 for 20 shots, thats more than my box of reloads costs me). We have been dealing with the typical issues of raising livestock with more and more people around as you guys have mentioned, as well as dealing with idiots during hunting season "...But i can see all them deer in your haystack, i'll be doing you a favor if ya let me blast a couple!" "You have thousands of acres there, you don't need to keep it all for yourself". But it makes me mad that they can and do shoot anything and everything with no safe backstop in the parking lot of the FAS that truely does endanger everyone in the area and we have asked to have weapons restrictions put on the FAS because it is close to town to no avail, but they can complain about us.

The officer was not concerned in the least with our actions and said we could continue to shoot but warned us that anybody that complained once will likely do it again.

[KCSO]

Same here we got a call one afternoon in September from an Omaha transplant complaining that the neighbors were SHOOTING BIRDS! You HAVE to stop them! We checked and it is, as we suspected, dove hunters. Keep up the good work fellows sorry to bother you.

[Maven]

"292 hit it on the head dead center! It is the urban cowboy meantality, the city dewller, moved into the country, the non hunter/shooter, the save the whaler, the PETA type, etc.etc.etc. that creates this problem."

Two years ago a couple + 2 kids from Manhattan (weekenders) purchased a home maybe 1.5 miles from our club's property and range, which is parallel to their property. You wouldn't believe the number of complaints we have about noise and dangerous conditions. The wife told our club president her kids are afraid of the gunfire (Guess who taught them to be?) and is afraid they'll be shot in the head (her words). Oh, I forgot to mention that our range has been in existence for +50 yrs. at that location and that they drove right past many times while looking for a home to purchase. Funny that their real estate agent never pointed it out to them. In short, they'd like to close us down or limit the hours and days (no weekends, of course) that the range can be used. Fortunately for us, the local town has no noise ordinance or nothing else on the books which would give them succor...at present. Btw, after 9/11, the NY Times published a few articles about city dwellers who move to the country and can't quite accept hunting, gunfire, wild animals (coyote, deer, bears) nearby and thus wish to ban such things. Here's a link to our website if you'd like to see our club: http://www.marbletownsportsmensclub.com/Home.htm

[Bret4207]

When the farmer spreads manure "IT smells."
The sheep bleating or the cow calling its calf "Keeps them awake."
The tractor hauling equipment is "Blocking the road."
You got a lot of land, planted in crops, why can't I drive my four wheeler where ever I want.
So what if I opened the gate that was closed; or closed the one that was open.

HAR! Yup, all sound familiar.

[geargnasher]

Ya know gear, you don't even have to talk enough or show enough to irritate a cop, some times typing enough can do it too.

Have a nice day sir,

Duke

Nobody said anything about being irritating to an LEO except you. Giving anyone attitude based on a Budweiser Backbone as Bret so aptly put it isn't a good way to treat anyone, and I'm certainly not advocating anyone bow up and get pissy with a cop.

But that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about self-incrimination here. There is absolutly no possible circumstance where giving a statement of any kind to LEO or allowing any search can benefit the person giving the statement or consent. That's the point I'm trying to get across, because the ARE malicious, power-hungry people who wear badges. I appreciate those of you who do wear white hats and put your lives on the line every time you put on a duty belt and go deal with problems created by (mostly) the scum of the earth, and I like everyone else in society needs law enforcement to be there at the other end of a phone 24/7, but I resent those who try to buddy-buddy their way into a prosecution while doing a simple investigation. If a person wants to invite LEO onto their property to sniff around, that's fine, but it ain't happening at my place without probable cause that will hold up in court or a search warrant signed by a judge. It's not that I have anything to hide, but if the LEO is only investigating a report of "someone shooting" and comes to my house, I have nothing to show, either. Of course saying "No, sir, I do not give you permission to 'look around' or 'see my shooting range'" irritates LEO and automatically makes me the the bad guy. Too bad. If you do not have evidence or reason to believe that I broke the law, we're done. Don't hassle me, I won't hassle you. You have a job to do, I will help as far as it is in my legal interest to do so, and no further. There's a reason why you have to ask before conducting a search, it's outlined in the 5th amendment of the US Constitution and detailed by states and supported by various case law. Just because I excercise my right to privacy and protection from illegal searches shouldn't "irritate" you as long as I'm polite about it, and I'll be as polite as I can. If exercising my rights irritates an LEO, I think they have a real problem, which is even MORE reason for me to take the stand that I do.

Gear

[Plate plinker]

Maven, nice lookin little club. Bet they would freak out if you started action pistol. :2gunsfiring_v1:

According to you're calander the club is not overly active, maybe we should organize some other activities.:kidding:

oh yeah does it really look like the mountains on the web page there?

[hiram1]

plant. i dont put it past them.but if you dont let them in or on the place it could be planted at night to.just never know.it has happend.

[badge176]

"He was very professional and remembered coming to talk to my 4H group several years prior, told us he had to look but he wasn't mad at us for anything which was very nice of him. "

Please keep in mind that it was the turd at the fishing access area that was off the mark. Sounds like your local LEO did a fine job at satisfying the "customer" (caller/ Reporting Party) that all was "ok" with an extra effort to not upset the resident/"subject of the complaint". Hopefully he added notes to the log for the call that the range is NOT UNSAFE, and that you all were pleasant and cooperative with his "investigation". Likely cleared it with "unfounded" as the code (we read that as, "Caller had head up butt").

While I don't have the pleasure of working in a rural environment, I do work day shift ,and get stuck dealing with calls where the Reporting Party is often the one who is in the wrong! A lesson I learned in Customer Service (back in the day) was that the saying "the customer is always right" is FALSE. In Fact, the Customer is ofter dead wrong! but I do my job in such a way that the "customer" always feels that I heard them out (even if they don't like what I have to say when they are done talking at me).

In my state, my license reads "Peace Officer", and part of what I end up doing is "keeping the peace" by sometimes calming the unneeded fears of the stupid and helpless-by-choice, and encouraging the bold to be polite. The Law Enforcement part comes when the "bad guys" (read "malignant" scavengers and ocassional predators) break the rules, and need to be held accountable and apart from the good folks.

Keep in mind we spend our work day going from crisis, to emergency, to confrontation, to tragedy, to crisis and them back to an emeregency (on a bad day). And we have to manage to keep our cool not only through the whole day's events, but then we also need to shed that all and go home to our families.

Most of the folks I work with have badges that only cover about 1.75 inches of their left breast, and the few folks that have em "shoulder to shoulder" are as disdained by fellow LEOs as by the public they see themselves superior to.

And yeh, it sucks that milktoast city folks are trying to civilize the rural areas they have invaded...

[bearcove]

Like gear says, you want to look get some paper. I almost cry every time I see the cop on the side of the road rooting threw someones car. My answer is "Yes sir you can feel free to search my property as soon as you have a warrant that says I have to allow it. Until then the answer is No."

[jcwit]

Cowboy, be aware that they may plant some bullets on their property claiming they came from your range. This happened somewhat near me and even tho the bullets did not have rifling marks they did get the range shut down as unsafe with bullets leaving the property.

[Plate plinker]

Jc u referring to Warsaw or Coloma?

[TCLouis]

I walked out the other Sundy afternoon . . .

Could hear at least 4 different sources of gunfire in the area.

Not to outdone, it was time to test some 358429s and 429421s.

As someone on the internet says . . .

"Life is good!"

[firefly1957]

Be polite to a officer when he responds he is doing his job and if you are doing nothing wrong he will tell you. Now if the gut said he had reason to be to scared to return to his truck maybe the officer should of done a report on either a false police report or a person that is a danger to himself?
Hope this comment does not cause a problem here but if a officer causes a problem pull out and turn on a voice or video recorder with his knowledge while very rare if you have a bad officer or he happens to be friends with the complainer it would be best to have it on tape! I know a guy that was coerced into not using his new property to shoot at because a deputies mother lived nearby, Once he found the problem a talk with the sheriff cleared the problem and he was bothered no more.

[gew98]

The days that I don't hear gun fire around here are few and far between. It just isn't an issue. As long as they don't complain about me, I don't complain about them.

What really DOES bother me is the attitude local governments have toward "ranges".

Any attempt to establish a designated range where the public is invited to come to shoot is met with extreme hostility and promptly shut down because of zoning violations.

Doesn't make sense to me. :veryconfu

Jerry

I here you jerry !. I grew up in new jerkistan..... and they got to the point of having rural counties declare "No discharge of firearm zones" Not a Damn joke mind you. These dark blue white lettered signs appeared overnight and god forbid you had acreage and or a farm and were out shooting..... they would and did drop the hammer on such "horrible recreation".
Where I grew up and hunted rabbit , deer and pheasant.............. damn near it all was off limits due to such incredulously stupid ordinances because SO MANY jackarses from New Yerk , connect the dot , filthydelphia and points north in new jerkistan brought their wealth /crime/fears with them and suppressed the local populace to that of a knave in the "law's eyes due to their wealth and "stature" ( who piled sh%t that high ? ) .
Places so fertile in rabbit , deer , pheasant were quashed in the name of thier almighty buck and "quality of life "... and what did they get...ferral dogs and cats THEY discarded killing everything to include their precious gawd be damned pets !.
I have seen this in several places in Kentucky since I moved there in '93. And it's the same dang broken record..... wealthy sods buy up acreage and or a "developement" wherein these city sloths come in and bring their vomit with them to everyones' detriment. If they would just stay in the "cities" and live out their dream of big gub'mit utopia there and eventually die off we would all be better off !!!.

[jcwit]

Jc u referring to Warsaw or Coloma?

IIRC it was on the east side of the state, Ann Arbor or somewhere in that area.

[frankenfab]

Same here we got a call one afternoon in September from an Omaha transplant complaining that the neighbors were SHOOTING BIRDS! You HAVE to stop them! We checked and it is, as we suspected, dove hunters. Keep up the good work fellows sorry to bother you.

Made me laugh!

[Plate plinker]

Might have been Brighton. It is completely surround by a subdividing now. Has baffles and everything these days.

Warsaw Indiana CC had a problem like that and they survived. Coloma MI case I am not real familiar with, but they ran into some problems lately.

[NSP64]

I just saw an article about the cops(lake county) banging on someones door and he shows up armed, they shot him dead. http://news.yahoo.com/video/deputies-shoot-kill-man-knocking-163819466.html

It was the wrong house.
Will any cops go to jail?
An Illinois state trooper killed two sisters a couple of years ago, reponding code to an accident (there was already an officer on scene), texting, using the onboard computer, at 120 mph.

He got probation.

[Love Life]

The world has become exactly what we let it become. Nothing more and nothing less.

[Plate plinker]

Now that's a sore spot right there. They (the law) always getting after the people about distracted driving and nearly every cop I see is doing the phone, texting, or computing while driving. What the heck? :mad:

[NSP64]

Tax assessor knocks on the door the other day, Says " The 2010 flyover photo shows we have a pool. He says they dont tax above ground pools , but do inground(we have above ground).
He asks if there is any way he can see it to verify above ground. I tell him there is no gate in the 6' offset slat fence, but he can see the pool if he stands just right. Then I shut the door.

[NSP64]

The trooper was allowed to resign.
He then tried to get workmans comp for his injuries in the wreck.
All the loacal LEO's say he is up at the bar getting drunk every night.

[NSP64]

NDAA 2012 anyone?

[facetious]

A guy I work with got his kid a BB gun, he filled a box with paper for a backstop and to tape targets to and was showing the kid how to use it in the back yard. Someone saw and called the cop's. Thy were going to charge him with discharging a firearm in the city limits, he talked them out of a ticket but thy told him if he did it again he would be charged and told him a BB gun is a firearm!

[Bret4207]

Facetious, look in your states Penal Law in the definitions and see if a BB gun is considered a firearm, it may be. If this occurred in a city or other municipality, they may have their own set of definitions that define a BB gun as a firearm.

[firefly1957]

A bb gun is a firearm in Michigan as well ! We are getting some stupid gun laws changed for the better here but this one hangs on.

[brassrat]

Some States demand permits to buy air guns.

[L Ross]

My neighbor across the road call the SO out one day when I was putting up trim in the house with a nailgun, said "the shots sounded close, I was worried".

Just because somebody was scared doesn't mean you were breaking the law, and if the cops can't produce probable cause to believe they suspect you of having committed a crime, then I'd suggest terminating the interview right there. Your evening would REALLY have been screwed up if Mr. Fife had showed up instead, being already convinced you must be a criminal and intent to prove it if you let him, and believe me, if you talk enough or show enough, they'll find something to nail you on if that's what their motivation is, and most places, most of the time, it is these days. You think the world is going to heck because of freaks on the river, just wait 'til you encounter the "out to get you" cop. Just a little something to think about in the future. Know and excercise your rights, because Johnny Law ain't necessarily in your corner anymore.

Gear

I carefully reread the original post and I didn't see where he met Barney Fife, Johnny Law, an out to get him cop, or any cop who's motivation was to nail him. Your post somehow turned the OP's point of how in today's world a simple thing like shooting can generate a complaint, into a blame the cops situation. I resented it and tried to politely let you know that.

Duke

[geargnasher]

You didn't read MY post carefully enough. The OP met a good LEO, doing his job like most of us think he should. I said if Mr. Fife had showed up instead..., implying that if a less friendly and scrupulous officer had responded to the call instead of the obviously decent one who did, then he REALLY could have had his youthful, idealistic image of the world shattered to pieces. Actually, the "Fife" reference wasn't a good one on my part, Barney wasn't a bad character. But there's nothing like being really jerked around by a cop on a power trip looking to bag an easy conviction on something he might find in a brief search a few times to change your view of things, and you never know who's going to show up behind that badge, so erring on the side of caution is always advisable lest you cooperate yourself into some serious self-incrimination.

What has the world become? The whole point of my response is it's become a worse than just some hysterical idiot calling the law to investigate some gunshots in the distance. A LOT worse. Fortunately, LE seems to still have it's head on straight in most of Montana from what I hear, anyway. Don't expect that everywhere.

Gear

[swheeler]

Cowboy; you probably scared this city slicker bad enough he dumped in his designer waders, lost his cool ray shades, broke his Loomis fly rod and couldn't make it to his LandRover, thank God his IPod worked! Good on you and the brother!!!

[429421Cowboy]

Sorry gear, I have been working in this crummy world far too long to still have an idealistic view about any of it! And two of my older brothers were cops for over a decade each, i have seen and heard enough that there are some cops out there that are worse than the people they arrest. And just as you advised, my oldest brother CJ always warned me "if you ever get arrested don't say a single word till you get a lawyer and don't show them a thing they don't have a paper to see". Nice thing for a guy that had worked as a cop his entire adult life to say, eh?
I would have to say 99% of the city cops, county sheriffs and game wardens i deal with are generally nice guys, there are a few that get sour on the job, people and life in general that make life tough for us all though. I have had enough good experiences with the local game wardens, several of whom i consider close friends, that i am going to school right now to be a Montana game warden (i hope that doesn't mean you guys won't shoot with me anymore!). But just like there are some whiny pain in the neck concerned citizens out there, there are also some cops that choose to take everything the hard way.

[Stephen Cohen]

In this country you dont have to show a gun to run foul of the law, if the lady next door knew I had guns, and she rang police and told them it scared her that I have them, the police could and would take them even if the lady had never seen them. I guess its a good incentive to be liked by those in your street.

[blackthorn]

With respect to air guns, in Canada anything that can develop 500fps is classed as a firearm.
With respect to good and bad cops, I am in the same camp as Cowboy and Gear! Ever since the bleeding heart Liberals got done with fooling around with the qualifications to become a member of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police (read political correct) we have had too many instances of power mad officers who think the badge gives them the right to walk all over the people they are hired to serve. Thank god the bulk of the force is not like that BUT you never know which is which when they knock on the door or pull you over. The advent of cell phones that record events have brought quite a few "cross the line" incidences to light. The worst part is that when these offences are uncovered, the top brass tries to cover them up!

Love my country---Fear my government (and its enforcers)!

[MGySgt]

Had a decent range in SE VA. Sherrif helped me lay it out on my property. One day one of my neighbours knoked on the door asking if I was alright - they hadn't herd me shoot in few days!

Moved back north 1.5 years ago. Bought this place AFTER we checked with the county court house. Rules to shoot on your own property. Out side city limits (5 miles) and it is safe. Neighbour complains - nothing they can do. New neighbour heard I was puttin in a range - was a little upset until my wife told him what the county regs were and she also told him if he didn't believe it call the court house.

No problems - but it did cost me $3,500 to clear my 110 yard range and build a high enough berm to make it safe

[Del-Ray]

Sorry, I used to trust police. Then when my workplace wanted me gone and couldn't fire me because I followed all the rules I found myself locked up with a 72 hour hold in a nut house, and had two cops politely talking to me. And telling me "Hey, we haven't read you your Miranda rights, so we can't use this in court anyways." Me trusting them I talked with them for a while. Am explanation of gallows humor became a confession. and when I said they told me the above they both testified it never happened. Thank God I was found not guilty. Though I still never got the job back or an apology. And the lawyers fees hurt as well.

Lesson? When I cop wants ANYTHING now, "Am I free to go?" If yes, "Good bye." If not, "Then I exorcise my right to remain silent."

Most cops are good, it's the small amount that aren't that ruin it for everyone else.

You never know which you are going to get, and the risk is to harmful, and WAY to expensive. Don't say anything more then your name, address, and am I free to go.