Question for the chemists/biochemists among us

[Wayne Smith]

This is a rather tongue-in-cheek question, but I have been researching gout and pseudogout recently due to toe pain, first joint of the right big toe. From descriptions I'm leaning toward pseudogout but will have my uric acid levels checked.

Pseudogout is caused by deposits of calcium pyrophosphate in the joint. I'm curious about the pyro part of pyrophosphate. Do I need to keep my feet away from campfires??

Yes, I have googled it and only find information about the pseudogout issues or calcium. I'm not really good a searches, though.

[Bloodman14]

I thought I had gout, too, but discovered I had bone spurs caused by osteoarthritis. Don't have a clue about pyrophosphates.

[gray wolf]

I have had Gout for 35 years,
sometimes to the point of having to crawl like a child to the bathroom.
The pain can be some of the worst pain you can endure.
To me it can be worse than 5, stage 4, tooth aches.
From my research I have found it is caused by the bodies inability to assimilate
Purines in the food, I believe purines = the formation of Uric acid and it is the Uric acid crystals that form in the joints, the big toe is a dandy candidate.
But not the only joint that can be effected. Also both feet can have flair ups at the same time.
The long time standing remedy for a flair up has always been Cholchesine, Spelling. One tablet every hour till gastric disturbance occurs. That is the indicator
that your body has reach it's limit for the drug. This drug is POISON and can kill you if to much is ingested. People have committed murder with it.
Don't you just want a double dose of this ??
As a maintenance drug Alopurinal (spelling) has been the drug of choice.
300 Mg. once a day is prescribed for most use.
Alopurinal can attack the Liver over time, and Liver blood work should be done.
In my case I was having bad attacks, sometimes 2 a month and they could last for up 4 -5 days. No fun at all Read as crippling.
I chose not to take the Meds. and have found that if
I DO NOT; eat beef, pork, butter fat of any kind, shell fish of any kind
Or any box mixes that contain any derivative of the above, I am Gout free.
Pancake mix with butter fat in it is all it takes. Alcohol is another known contributor.
After years of enjoying what I wanted to eat I feel I have tasted everything many more times that once. The pain just ain't worth the gain.
I understand that many folks can't do without the food they enjoy,
so take the Meds.
If you truly cannot assimilate the Uric acid in your blood, I for one know of no other answer. However I am not so old that I can't be enlightened.
Hope it helps someone.
I have had Doctors tell me that diet is a bunch of crapppp,
take the Meds and shut up. Thanks Doc-------See Yaaa
Black Cherry juice concentrate mixed with water has been used for years as a shade tree medication and has helped some people with mild to Med. attacks.
Copious amounts of water are also helpful in flushing the Uric acid Crystals.
At times a burning sensation can be felt upon Urinating as the sharp crystals are flushed through the Urethra.
Men--
that is all-- the pertinent-- need to know information --I can give from My Gray matter.

[MtGun44]

A quick look on the 'sometimes right' source - Whacky-pedia - shows that these are:
"the anion, the salts, and the esters of pyrophosphoric acid are called pyrophosphates".

The general method of creation requires heating phosphates, so the "pyro" from Greek
for fire. Not related to reactivity to fire.

I don't think they are going to be even remotely flammable, especially when dissolved in
water in your body.

As an aside, Wikipedia is very often dishonest on political topics, the left has many minions
assigned to continuously "correct" the pages on things like "Man Made Global Warming" with
their propaganda views, and rewritting/removing/excluding any views that might clash with or
disprove their fascist outlook. On techy stuff that is uncontroversial, it is USUALLY pretty good.


Bill

[oneokie]

Do you drink orange juice regularly? If you do, try cutting it out of your diet and see if there is any change.

[Mooseman]

Are you on any Heart Medications ? My fishing buddy had that symptom for 3 years before the doctors figured out it was one of his meds and changed it...The symptoms disappeared.

Rich

[btroj]

To answer your question you are OK around campfires. Stay well away from pseduofires however.

As a pharmacist I can tell your hat diet changes can be a good way to avoid gout pain. Key is finding what food causes you trouble.

Allopurinol is still used to prevent gout, it is very safe, works pretty well, and is dirt cheap. I would suggest it before going with Uloric.

Speak with your Dr and determine what the problem is and a plan to deal with it. Avoid pseudo doctors. They are abundant online.

I hope this pseudo answers your pseudo question. I pseudo tried to.

[wallenba]

I thought I had broken my right big toe. Went to the doc, got an x-ray. Doc comes back grinnin'. Pokes me in the toe and asks,
does that hurt'? Yeah you psycho! (known him a while). Said I had gout. Been on 300 mg Allopurinol a couple of years now. Good as new.
I had liver and onions as well as asparagus the night before, both bad for the condition. Pushed me over the edge I guess.

[Wayne Smith]

No heart meds, no orange juice (I'm diabetic - too many carbs) and I drink copious amounts of water. I had swelling, redness, and pain but not the exquisite pain reported with gout. Most of the time I didn't use pain meds., and when I did it was ibuprofen. Over the previous weekend my joint was swollen so much I could not put on a shoe.

[btroj]

I shouldn't go here but I will.

If your joint was so swollen you couldn't put on a shoe and it lasts more than 4 hours you need to seek medical attention. Don't you watch the commercials?

[runfiverun]

wooooa.
i wanna say something about the color blue,but i am laughing to hard.

i'd listen to btroj.
he went to school for this kinda advice [apparently clown school too]

[wallenba]

I shouldn't go here but I will.

If your joint was so swollen you couldn't put on a shoe and it lasts more than 4 hours you need to seek medical attention. Don't you watch the commercials?

HEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEHEEEEEEEEEEEEEE :bigsmyl2:

[292]

Back in early spring I diagnosed myself with sesamoiditis. I had been running up a ramp, conditioning for a mountain turkey hunt. A coworker was sure it was gout.
http://www.foot.com/site/foot-conditions/sesamoiditis

[Wayne Smith]

That's a good article. Mine is inside and on the top of the joint, and the sensitivity is as much on top of the foot as anywhere.

[dragonrider]

I have had gout in the past, use to get attacks several times a year, In 2005 I was also diagnosed with type 2 diabetes and thought I had better quit drinking beer on a continous basis. Diabetes went from 500 to 100, gout dissapeared, not so much as a twitch since then and I lost 30 pounds. I still drink beer occaisionaly, but not like I did. Used to go through 2-3 cases a week. As Hienekin is my beer of choice it was also expensive.

[popper]

Have the doc check for nerve damage if the top of the foot gives you that electric shock feeling. Had an uncle with gout, he took cortisone injections (bad juju), loved his venison and whiskey.

[sthwestvictoria]

On the balance of probability this is more likely gout, caused by excess urate in the blood. This is related to genetic factors and there is less evidence that the rich foods previously blamed are the culprits.

Pseudogout is caused by calcium pyrophosphate deposition and is less common and more likely related to secondary conditions - high calcium, dehydration, other arthritic conditions.

The gold standard test is to aspirate some fluid out of an affected joint (difficult with the 1st joint of the big toe, a bit easier at the ankle and much easier in the knee). This gives some fluid to look at under the microscope for the light refraction pattern birefringence - urate crystals have what is called negative birefringance and pyrophosphate positive birefringance.

[Moonie]

Keep in mind that pain from diabetic neuropathy can be similar to gout, I have had both, thankfully I reversed the neuropathy.

You really need to have your uric acid levels checked, they can also check the joint for uric acid crystals, it is not pain free to do so however.

[firefly1957]

I have had some luck with drinking cherry juice or eating as little as 6 cherries a day for bringing down uric acid levels .

[Wayne Smith]

The gold standard test is to aspirate some fluid out of an affected joint (difficult with the 1st joint of the big toe, a bit easier at the ankle and much easier in the knee). This gives some fluid to look at under the microscope for the light refraction pattern birefringence - urate crystals have what is called negative birefringance and pyrophosphate positive birefringance.

Yeah, I read that too. Don't plan on going there! Even if my doc herself has a fluorescing microscope in her office.

[Moonie]

I have had some luck with drinking cherry juice or eating as little as 6 cherries a day for bringing down uric acid levels .

+1 on this, cherry juice works as does carrot juice. When I start getting a flare up I get the diet V8 splash and soak the affected area in warm (hot) water to help the crystals dissolve.

Be sure you drink lots of water, the crystals can also precipitate out in the kidneys, imagine a kidney stone with spikes, been there, you do NOT want that.

Flush that evil stuff out with as much fluid as you can stand.