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Beekeeper
07-13-2012, 06:04 PM
OK , disclaimer to start out.
This is in no way a post to impunge on anyones degree.

How many people here have one, a show of hands please!
How many that have one are older than 60?
How many of you old guys ,when you were starting out got told by an old guy that the sheepskin belonged on the wall and not on the job?
Maybe some like me were told the sheepskin and $.50 would get you a cup of coffee at the diner! See $.50 ,tells you how long ago it's been for me.

I write this to tell a story!
I had a couple of actions x-rayed to check them out before I used them.
An old friend still in the business did them for me, and wouldn't let me pay for the work.
Laughed and said his son did them and he needed the practice.
The other day I went to visit and slip$50 into the coffee kitty and we visited for a few minutes.
His son is about the age I was when I got my degree,40ish.
Was really down and when I probed him he told us why.
Seems one of their new Engineers had just died of radiation poisioning and a massive brain tumor.
During the investigation it was found that he had checked out and taken home a radioactive isotope canister. Being a licensed engineer it was allowed (not any more you can be sure).
Said engineer was going to go for a masters degree and was wanting to start his thesis.
A professor during his bachlor program had shown slides of gamma rays during a lecture and young engineer wanted to study gamma rays so he would open and close the cannister trying to see the gamma rays.
He had it in his notes that he thought the proffessor was wrong that he had seen nothing in many hours of study.

I wonder if anyone ever told him to take his sheepskin down to the diner with $.50 and get a cup of coffee?
Makes me very sad it happened but at the same time furious at the college that told him the sheepskin was like body armor, Nothing can touch you as long as you have a sheepskin.

I still remember the old hand that broke me in. Would have kicked my butt if I ever mentioned I had one.
Told me "you start learning today and when you know it all retire" Didn't retire but the type of NDT I did was phased out so I went into a diferent field ( I got a real job)
Just thought you might like know

beekeeeper

Ickisrulz
07-13-2012, 06:24 PM
Not believing something hazardous can hurt you is a universal human condition shared by college-educated and high school dropouts. The fewer warning signs there are the less people take the hazard seriously, and there are no perceptible warning signs with radiation exposure.

375RUGER
07-13-2012, 06:28 PM
I've got a BS in Welding Engineering Technology (Welding Metallurgy)
I used it for a few years and then became disabled for way too long.
Now I'm an Automation Engineer, so I don't even use my degree. But at least I'm working and not disabled, physically anyway.

I'll be 44 real soon.





Sorry to hear about the kid, but it doesn't sound like too much common sense was involved.

Plate plinker
07-13-2012, 06:39 PM
I have a b.s. (history) and my theory is that it means I can be taught and I am willing to work to the end. Currently not using the degree, but hope to in the near future.

btroj
07-13-2012, 07:41 PM
Only 46. BS in Chemistry and a BS in Pharmacy. I use the second one on a daily basis! First one comes in handy at times too but sadly I have forgotten much of it.

The education is only part of the equation. Educate an idiot and you have an educated idiot. Big deal.

Alvarez Kelly
07-13-2012, 07:42 PM
Well... I'm not 60 yet... but I have 2 Master degrees. I agree with Plate plinker above. It means I can be taught and can stick with something. I don't actually work in any of my fields of study, but what I learned helps me everyday.The main things I learned were how to research or problem solve, and how to write.

I'm not sorry I spent time in the classrooms.

DHurtig
07-13-2012, 08:10 PM
I have a degree in horticulture. Spent most of my life doing nursery and landscape work. Lived hand to mouth all those years because nobody in this area would pay you what you were worth, but the personal satisfaction was priceless. Been a security officer at the largest high school in the state for 7 1/2 years now. Chasing around 2400 teen-agers is kind of like catch and release hunting and it's loads of fun. I just turned 57. Dale

alamogunr
07-13-2012, 08:32 PM
I got my degree in Industrial Engineering in 1964. I retired in 2006 and turned 70 on Wednesday.

My first job was as a timestudy man in a union shop in Michigan. I did that for a few years and then was promoted to Personnel Manager for a new plant in Tennessee. That led to manufacturing management at that plant. Things didn't go well(union drive) and the company wanted to transfer me and the family didn't want to move. My sons were 8 and 6 at the time. I said to heck with it and got a job in manufacturing engineering and stayed with that until retirement. The last few years was as a "systems analyst", which can be anything they want it to be.

For those that don't know, Industrial Engineers know a little about a lot of things but not a lot about anything.

I never made a big salary but we saved, put both sons thru college( one is a pharmacist, the other a college professor, both with doctorates).

When I got out of management, I have to say I was a whole lot easier to live with. Stress became a thing of the past. I emphasized to both sons to work at what made them happy, not necessarily what made them a lot of money. It seems to have worked out.

Olevern
07-13-2012, 10:04 PM
I am in the over 60 catagory. Got my degree (BA) in Psychology and worked all my life (after 4 years in the Navy) in the State Dept. of Corrections. I believe it helped me there as I moved up the ladder, reaching the rank of Captain. I believe it (and experience) are still of value as, retired, I go about mentoring children at risk.

My dad told me "there's one thing this world can't take away from you, and that's your education"

In our home education was valued and I raised my children with those same values.

frankenfab
07-13-2012, 10:19 PM
I went to college in my middle thirties and got a 1 year certificate in Machine Shop/CNC, and an AAS in Manufacturing Technology. It has helped me tremendously. I really took school seriously at that age, had a blast, and I graduated with a 3.95 GPA. I didn't even go to graduation. I went to work at a machine shop the Monday after I finished my course work.

Now I work and travel alone, with no direct supervision, and install and repair the machines I used to have to run all day.

SciFiJim
07-14-2012, 12:36 AM
I am 49 and currently working on my first bachelors degree in computer engineering. I already have an AS in Computer Science. I will probably never work in the area of my degree, but I like the subject and school has gone from being a horrible drag in high school to something I now look forward to.

One thing that I have noticed is that a lot of students (young and old) don't have enough sense to pour "you know what" out of a boot and expect a college degree to be a magic ticket to riches.

Bret4207
07-14-2012, 07:51 AM
My hat is off to all the older men who go to school the achieve a goal. As for the vast, vast majority of kids that consider college a rite of passage and 4-6 years of partying on Dad's nickle....I aiin't got such nice things to say. I'm in an argument on another with an idiot because I stated "college is not an education". I base that on my experience dealing with college kids, my wifes experience obtaining her Masters and maintaining a 4.0 while teaching, caring for her kids and elderly parents and running a farm while her husband was off fighting indians and such. I base it on my experience dealing with college professors and other higher level nincompoops. Personally, I think the number of colleges and universities should be cut by 95% and you should have to PROVE your worth before even applying to go. A lot of idiots have a degree that can't even fathom basic ideas, like the poor engineer in the OP.

10x
07-14-2012, 08:45 AM
Just turned 61, married for 41 years this November ( the official count by my mother in law is 39 years this august)

A 4 year specialization degree (If I had not missed one field trip it would have been an Honors degree) in Wildlife management, Fresh water fisheries, and water chemistry. - with a minor in psychology and a year in education...

Used it all from time to time sporadically but never as a career.

That being said I loved working in the field of fisheries and wildlife management but when my wife was attending university I could not afford to live on the wages and support her as well. I was earning $325.00 a month doing fisheries and invertebrate research and it was costing me $340.00 a month to live and put her through U. So it was off to residential construction. Once She graduated and we had kids I could not afford the time away from the family as her job consumed up to 70 hours a week and the job I had with the local fish and wildlife required that I be away from home several days a week. Once again the wages would not compensate a baby sitter for the two to three days I would be gone.

Over the years I have installed siding and soffits, built garages, did maintenance work for a realty company, taught hunter ed and firearms safety courses, and have worked short term contracts in fisheries. Not to mention teaching computer skills classes and doing some counseling and consulting.

And I have been casting boolits since 1966 or so...

Hardcast416taylor
07-14-2012, 09:08 AM
I`ve got one of those funny looking pieces of paper laying around the basement somewhere that has written on it "Degree of Fluid Dynamics". That means about anything that goes thru a pipe I constructed will get to the other end and not leak out in the process. In short I was a plumber with a degree that never once helped me do trench work or any other dirty job. I recall an "engineer of Industrial Manfacturing" wanting to impress me once with his ability. He had a blueprint of the overall view of 2 adjoining shop jobs. He wanted me to get a construction crew together and run a 4" screw pipe plant air line thru this wall and connect it on the other side for that plants use. I declined on the spot he wanted it done at. Upon his demanding to know why I led him around that wall to the same spot on the other side. Where he wanted the line to be punched thru that brick wall was an 8" natural gas main line sitting in the way. He left rapidly, I had a different engineer with a different site for an air line visit me several days later.Robert

popper
07-14-2012, 09:12 AM
Spent 4 yrs in the Navy learning to be an adult, 4 1/2 yrs at the university learning to learn and 45+ yrs in R&D. Proof of degree was available when employers asked to see it. It gets your foot in the door, after that it's up to you. I borrowed the first semester $ and worked for the rest. I was told by someone that those graduating had IQ in the upper 10% of the US. If that is true then we pay the others @ the 50% level to party and find mates. Times have changed. I paid for 2 kids to get Chem & Chem E degrees @ U Texas. Dad did have his BSEE, MBA and Prof. Eng, pilot lic. paper on the wall, he was running a $10M Co.
Sorry, got interrupted by GK soccer game. To the OP post
shown slides of gamma rays during a lecture and young engineer wanted to study gamma rays so he would open and close the cannister trying to see the gamma rays. Definitely below the 50 percentile! I will say the story sounds fishy, you DON'T get to take the stuff home! That's how Curie died. Worked with a tech who died of bone cancer - he worked as an atomic clock fixer at Sandia in the '50s. I've worked with the stuff, you do have to be careful but it won't melt your skin off.

DanWalker
07-14-2012, 09:13 AM
Got my Degree in Biology when I was 32. I know it sounds like a an old timers BS story, but I really did drive 50 miles to school each day. I used my GI Bill and lots of student loans and grants. I also farmed full time and delivered pizzas at night. I worked for while as a Wildlife Biologist, and also as a fish hatchery tech. Got tired of being treated like slave labor.
I've been working in directional drilling for the past 6 years now. I don't regret the time in school. Heck, I even managed to pay off my student loans in just under 10 YEARS!

Griz44mag
07-14-2012, 09:18 AM
4 year degree - Electrical Construction at age 24, Masters at 29. My wife with 2 year R.N. nursing degree at 24, Bachelors at 58. We both turn 60 before the end of this year. I have worked in the electrical business since I was 16. Apprentice, journeyman, service tech, foreman, superintendent, estimator, project manager, general manager and contractor. The education in my opinion, was priceless. Two of my kids have Bachelors, the third an associates. All are flourishing and in my opinion, the education has a large part in that.

PB234
07-14-2012, 09:22 AM
Education is an investment in yourself. Depending on what you study and what use the knowledge can be put to determines the results of the investment. Some investments turn out great and some not so good. Aside from the financial investment characteristics the return from being a more knowledgeable person with more understanding is obvious.

RugerFan
07-14-2012, 09:39 AM
Maybe some like me were told the sheepskin and $.50 would get you a cup of coffee at the diner!


I don't agree with that philosophy. There have been plenty of studies (The Census Bureau did one) concerning the average level of income for people with varying levels of education. On "average," people with more college tend to make more money (A rather wide gap between HS grad and 4 yr degree). Of course there are always exceptions. Some HS drop-outs will become millionaires and some Doctors end up homeless. There are no guarantees, but being educated points you in the right direction. I always tell young people to get as much college as they can and never stop learning.

I have a BS in Business Information Systems and am not yet 60.

Char-Gar
07-14-2012, 09:52 AM
I have a Bachelor's, Masters and Doctors degrees and have worked in one or more of the fields they represent for 50 years.

My daughter (age 37) received Bachelor's, Masters and Doctor's degrees in Industrial Psychology and is working in that field making major bucks with a major electricity generator and transmission company.

My son (age 35) recieved a Bachelor's and Masters degrees in Petroleum Geology and is working as a Petroleum Geologist for a major internations oil company. He also is making major bucks.

My wife has a Bachelor's and Master's degree in History and taught history on the college level for many years until she retired year before last.

Everything me and my family has done in life required one or more degrees and we have worked in that field all of our lives (thus far). The degrees are the tools we use to support ourselves, our families and educate our kids. We each make our own way in life without economic dependency on each other.

Myself and my kids started college right out of high school and it was not a party on Dad's dime. We enjoyed the time, but our focus was always on the post-college future.

I think you can guess my answer to the original question. Education in a field you care about and has long term viability for employment is a very good thing and still works out well. However education is not all about jobs. It is about how you think, and how you view and live life.

Not everybody is wired for college and university and should seek others opportunities of which there are many. If you are wired for college and university than chase your dreams and don't quit until you have caught them.

Next week I will be 70 years old. Both my mother and father were college graduates as were my maternal grandparents who raise me. My Grandmother was born in 1891 and Grandfather in 1886. College education was very rare for folks of that generation. So you can see, it is my family tradition stretching back four generations. Not going to college was never offered to my kids as an option. It was always "when you go to college", the only decisions were what college and which course of study.

quilbilly
07-14-2012, 11:14 AM
Got my degrees in fisheries and marine invertebrates a long time ago (am 62) then never used them because I refused to work for the government after one summer of gov't work. The degrees almost cost me my first job (boss said I was overqualified). Now with my own business I use the degrees to help my customers in the fishing industry plan for the future. Two weeks ago I had to tell them to save their money as the chinook runs from 2015 and 2016 from NW Washington to SW Oregon are gone due to ocean conditions affecting marine invertebrates. Coho are gone next year for the same reason. Two years ago I told them how good this summer would be in NW Washington. For this info they buy my products and provide me a living. A college education can be worth it if you use it right

375RUGER
07-14-2012, 11:17 AM
I had a meeting to go to yesterday and didn't get to post some of the stuff I wanted to say after that common sense comment I made.

Getting a college degree is not what it use to be. I blame these get a degree quick online and conventional colleges, giving out degrees but short changing students on a real education.There are some good online colleges, so I hope no one reads this as bashing all of them.
It all boils down to money for these institutions, they can generate a lot of capital with less overhead if they cookie cut the students.


The real key is how an individual approaches a potential degree-education is an investment-the more you put in the more you get out.


I know a kid who is getting his Airframe and Powerplant license, but I don't want to fly in any plane that he has had to do mechanical work on.
The one guy in that program that I would trust, is the one who is getting the license to work on his own plane-he is doing it for himself not to work for someone.
The really sad thing is that this college use to generate real quality students, but I know for a fact that some of the "professors" there miss more class than the students are allowed to miss.

I know someone that got another degree(he already had a technology degree from 20 years ago) from an online college and he is the type that wouldn't settle for some cut rate program.



I don't know how guys my age go back or start a college education. I couldn't do it, I was finished when they handed me that diploma.
I'm not through learning though. I like to learn and teach, I just don't like to do it in a classroom setting-I'm in an online school now- castboolits.gunloads.com
How many posts do I have to have to get a PHD? :kidding:

1Shirt
07-14-2012, 11:21 AM
An AA, a BS & some grad work, all as a non traditional student in the military. No degree until I was 36 yrs old. I believe that there is merit in a later in life, non traditional education. Non traditional students, are in class to learn and to better themselfs. Traditional students at a young age, often switch majors 2, 3 even 4 times in the process of obtaining a degree, and often spend a 5th or longer year in college to obtain the degree. Degrees to me do one thing: They open doors that might otherwise never be opened. Regardless, the day we stop learning is a day wasted! Lastly, it should be remembered that Education is Big Business, and accordingly, the "Business of Business IS Business!"
1Shirt!:coffee:

Jailer
07-14-2012, 01:38 PM
No college degree for me and I'm 42. I do have some college as it was required for my job that I currently hold.

I've been working in prison since I was 19 years old. It's not a job you'll get rich doing but it pays the bills and allows me to live reasonably comfortably.

A degree isn't the end all be all that it's portrayed to be. Having said that if you are not going to get a degree I do believe you need to learn a marketable trade. You need something to make yourself valuable to a prospective employer and to give yourself options while you're in the job market searching.

A degree does help in some cases but the world needs laborers too.

frankenfab
07-14-2012, 01:41 PM
I've been working in prison since I was 19 years old.

Haven't we all!

:kidding:

sundog
07-14-2012, 03:59 PM
Uncle Sam paid for my degree and lots of leadership schools during a 26 year military career. I am well past 60 and using the degree Uncle paid for, which ad nothing to do with what I did in the Army. My current employer also footed the bill for some expensive technical training that is being used on a daily basis programming for a financial institution.

Junior1942
07-14-2012, 04:12 PM
I started college as a 48-year-old freshman. And I lived in a dorm that first semester. I graduated at age 53 with a 3.97 GPA. I have a BA in anthropology and a minor/almost a degree in English. I need 10 hours of anything for my English degree. If I lived closer to a college town I'd have that English degree. Plus I'd take at least one class a semester until the day I died. I love college. Some of the courses I'd like to take are: physical anthropology, forensic anthropology, paleoanthropology, Biblical history, ancient history, ethnomusicology, on and on....

skeettx
07-14-2012, 04:28 PM
BS Louisiana PolyTechnic Institute 1971 (now call La Tech University)
MS West Texas State University 1986 (now called West Texas A&M University)

63 years young

Married in 1970 and still married to the same Red Headed Gal

Retired: Air Force and Pantex (yes they have radiation at Pantex)

Mike

fatelk
07-14-2012, 05:16 PM
I went back to school a couple years ago, got a 2-year electronics degree at the local community college. Better than nothing they say. I sure wish I would have known how things are a couple decades earlier. In some ways I was disappointed; for the most part it was not much of a challenge. Some classes were insulting. I hope things are more challenging at a real school. I ended up with a 4.077 gpa (some instructors like to give out A+'s).

The younger bunch that was just there messing around irritated me. At nearly 40 years old, I was there to learn something and was not happy with stupid puff classes that wasted my time. Even the real classes with interesting stuff seemed dumbed-down for the slowest in the class. I really feel that I could have easily learned just as much or more in one year if it wasn't for the waste of time classes.

My dad is a college grad, top grades, honors, and all he ever wanted to do was farm. I grew up hearing about how college was a huge waste of time for him, so when I was of age I had no interest in college. I saw friends and acquaintances who went off to the big university to party on daddy's money, then graduate with some bs degree only to come home and pump gas. Then a few years later I watched another friend work his tail off paying his own way through school to become an electrical engineer. He had a job with Intel before he even graduated and makes good money now.

I came to realize that the value of a degree is in what you do with it. I know now that I could have done anything I wanted, and it sure would have been a lot easier 20 years ago. When my kids get to that age college will be encouraged, but it will have to be with some focus and purpose, otherwise it's just a waste of time and money.

I know some folks love to go to school for the sake of going to school; learning for the sake of learning even if what they are learning is of no practical value to them. I can appreciate learning, and top grades have never been a problem, but I'm sure glad to be done with school.

Added: in my previous job before being laid off and going back to school, I had plenty of training classes. These were typically practical technical stuff that I would actually use, usually taught in a more compressed, challenging manner. That is what I had been use to. Somehow I expected college to be more and it turned out to be less.

Stick_man
07-14-2012, 08:45 PM
I returned to school, armed with two AAS degrees, at the ripe young age of 29. Graduated with a BS in Accounting and one in Finance at age 32. Wife did the same thing in different fields. We were both full time students, had two kids under age 3, and I worked 30+ hours per week so we didn't end up enslaved beyond reason with student loans. I am a number cruncher. Been in the field since I was a teenager. Before I went back for the BS degrees, I was constantly being beaten out of good jobs ONLY because I didn't have the BS. These were jobs with 100-150 applicants and 4 rounds of interviews. Several times I would end up as one of the final 2 or 3 candidates and each time the job went to the one with the BS degree rather than to the one with the AAS degree and several years experience. One of these days, I am going to return to get an MBA so I can break through this glass ceiling on the wage scale.

gbrown
07-14-2012, 09:21 PM
[QUOTE=Junior1942;1776567]Plus I'd take at least one class a semester until the day I died. I love college.

+1 with that. Most of us are on this forum to learn. I'm retired and still seeking to learn. 1 BA, 2 MS & 15 hours short of a 3rd. My oldest grandson just finished his freshman year with a 3.5 gpa. A lot better than my freshman year.:p I was in the military (law enforcement stuff) for 23 years (R), civilian law enforcement for 15 years and taught for 22 years (R). I have always maintained that when you stop learning, you are dead. Good or bad, you learn something new everyday. Anything you learn can be used to solve a future problem. It's called transfer of knowledge. Whether its formal learning (school learning) or experience (informal learning). I have many friends who never completed HS. In reality, they are smarter than me. It depends on the person, are they able to learn or not?

Tom-ADC
07-14-2012, 10:51 PM
I'm 70 have two AA degrees on my GI Bill, I retired from Goodrich as a Staff Engineer with five engineers working for me. Goodrich also understood some people just knew how things were made and how things went together.

UnderDawgAl
07-14-2012, 11:01 PM
Education, too often, is wasted on the young.

I think I and many others would have benefited more by joining the military for a few years and then enrolling in college in our mid-20s, once some semblance of maturity set in. Of course, exceptions exist to the rule, with some young folks straight out of high school taking college very seriously.

jumbeaux
07-14-2012, 11:02 PM
Barely got out of High School......four years in the Navy.....3 years at Tech schools....then as a 26 years old eight long years (at night school) to earn a BS in Manufacturing Technology.......drove over 100,000 miles to school, worked full time, became a father and finally graduated at age 34. Medically retired from the same company after 31 years....

rick

btroj
07-14-2012, 11:38 PM
I don't buy the whole " older people take it more seriously or do better" arguement.

It is about the drive and desire of the individual. Some have it punt and do fine, some develop it later, and some will never do well in college at any age.

Generalities just don't work well with me. We all have a perspective. I did well in school right out of high school. It wasn't about anything but me doing what needed doing.

Someone mentioned that not everyone needs to go to college. I say amen to that. We need people working as skilled laboreres. We need peole in the trades. Rose are respectable jobs that need doing. I say more power tortoise that do them.

fatelk
07-15-2012, 12:53 AM
It is about the drive and desire of the individual.
That is true, but it is true that in general those that go back to school later in life typically do so for a reason, instead of just "That's what you do after high school". They're also less likely to party and mess around because they are more likely to have a job and a family. Not always of course, but this generality is generally quite true. I sure know it was for me.

TAMU74
07-15-2012, 04:06 AM
I'll soon be sixty one, and I have two degrees in Agriculture and one in Physics all from one of the only two schools that really matter. Sunday school and TEXAS A&M!

Beau Cassidy
07-15-2012, 08:54 AM
I have been lucky to work in my degree field and have been quite successful until getting screwed over big-time 2 years ago by some jealous docs. I was making 3 times the national average and live was good. Just got another job that hopefully will be similar.

The first degree was at the age of 28 from the Mississippi University for Women followed by 2 others elsewhere. After sitting on my butt for the last 10 years I am probably gonna go back for my doctorate the year after this.

I read one time that unless you have a very specialized degree, 80% of the people who get degrees don't work in their field of study.

Wayne Smith
07-15-2012, 09:58 AM
AAS-Law Enforcement; BA Psychology; MA Psychology; PsyD Clinical Psychology. Almost half of a MDiv in the doctoral program, and use it every day. I have so much fun with what I'm doing I don't want to retire.

I come in just under your cut-off, I'm 59.

Wife is a geologist and uses it daily, one son has his MDiv and writes and teaches, the other has his MS Areospace engineering and is employed by NASA.

I guess we believe in using our education!

BD
07-15-2012, 01:11 PM
I have a BA in English Lit with a minor in economics and a handful of grad credits taken my senior year. I'm 57 and haven't used the degree at all in that field. However, my college education has served me well as it taught me how to learn, how to sort and sift information, and how to deal with bureaucracy. It also helped me to discover early in life that I was absolutely not cut out to spend my life indoors at a desk, in the classroom, or as part of any bureaucracy.
BD

popper
07-16-2012, 11:38 AM
I think we agree that education at any level is worth what you put into it. My gripe about the youth is they believe a degree is a 'right of passage' into the high $ arena. I worked with too many degreed who can't find their way out of a paper bag with a compass, even in their field! I just went over the city's proposed budget. The IT manager (~$130k/yr) can't write a cost justification for software correctly, like purchase, lic., maint, training, etc. Jumbled it all up. The city bought a new 'do-everything' HW/SW package, cut it over and now will spend big $ to learn how it works. Dallas has spent 10's of millions on 911 systems and they still don't know how to make it work. NJ spent $Ms on a computerized subway control and still don't know how it works. Don't even mention the traffic light sysytems.