AR 15 question

[Ruckmanite]

I am thinking of buying an AR 15 and I was wondering if there are any issues using cast bullets in an AR? Chrome lined barrels get damaged using a chore boy on it? Anything like that? I have the Lyman 225415.

[paul h]

Your concern about the chrome bore isn't an issue, chrome makes the barrel tougher, so chore boy shouldn't hurt it.

There are a few concerns, what is the twist rate of the barrel? AR's have been going to faster and faster barrel twists, and while that is great for long jacketed bullets, the faster the barrels twist, the more violent it is on a cast bullet. I would avoid a 1-7 twist barrel, I'd say go no faster than a 1-9 twist, and if you can get an older ar with a 1-12 twist it will be much friendlier to cast.

22's are tough to cast because the bullets are so light it's tough to keep enough heat in the mold. It's the nature of the beast.

Final thought is you may have issues of leading in the gas tube. The upside is the gas tubes are cheap and easy to replace, so not a real deal killer.

[Larry Gibson]

+1 on the 12" twist barrel.

Chore boy won't hurt the chromed barrel at all.

Might have feed issues with the FP'd 225415. A RN of 55 - 60 gr would be much better. Yes the 12" twist will stabilize a RN cast bullet of 60 gr.

Larry Gibson

[fcvan]

I have cast a lot of great boolits from the 225-415. I had heard so much about how difficult it is to cast, check, and size the little boolits and was leery. The first boolits were keepers as I preheated the mold on top of the pot. I size with a Lyman 450 and just place the check in the sizing die and set the boolit into it. Sometimes I push the boolit onto the check and then place in the die.

I have been shooting this through an old 180 model mini-14 and it works great. My brother's AR should be ready to go next week (he's building it) and we will test function in that. I'm also dying to try some boolits I copper electroplated and then sized. They look good and hopefully will perform well. Frank

[csmopar]

Wouldn't there still be some issues with velocities of the .223 loads causing massive amounts of leading in ARs or is that just internet rumor?

[paul h]

If you're looking for full velocity loads, then yes you'll be at master/phd level casting/lubing your bullets. But, if you can live with less than full patch velocities, you can get cast to work fine.

Which reminds me of the other issue of an AR. If you download it to cast friendly velocities, you'll probably end up with a straight pull bolt action unless you go to an adjustable gas block and/or play with the buffer and spring. Not necessarily a bad thing as I ran some 35 gr j-boolits loaded over blue dot for hornet power levels and they were both fun and accurate out of the ar. Manually cycling the bolt after each shot isn't that bad, and I didn't have to chase my brass.

[Lizard333]

I am shooting a 62 gn boolit, sized to 225, out of my heavy barrel RR AR with a 1:8 twist, with great accuracy. I am using 18-19 grains of H4895 and it cycles the action just fine. The boolit is lubed Carnuba Red from White Label and is gas checked. No problems with the bass tube or with leading.

Don't be discouraged by those that haven't done it or said it can't be done. If you would like I can send you some to try for nothing. I got this mould from a group buy from Mihec. He is VERY good to work with.

Let me know.

[runfiverun]

the rcbs 055-sp feeds from the magazine just fine in both of my AR's.
with a 1-9 bbl i'd go with about 20 grs of imr 4895 to start.

[guidogoose]

Wouldn't there still be some issues with velocities of the .223 loads causing massive amounts of leading in ARs or is that just internet rumor?

I think that there would be issues with lead clogging the hole in the barrel that feeds the gas block. I used to have a 22lr conversion kit in mine. Even using plated bullets, my gas block was so clogged I had to drill the lead out. It was so bad the rifle would not even cycle. If it were me I would only use j-word bullets in an AR. An AR with a gas piston system may be a different story.

[btroj]

A month or so ack there was a post here by a guy who ran 500 rounds thru his AR pretty quickly. No problems.

Too many are using cast in M1 and AR 15 to have this be a real issue.

I wonder if some of the problem in your 22 conversion was a combination of bullet lube and low pressure. An AR is going to use a totally different lube which may, or may. It, get into the gas tube and will have. Uh higher pressure in the tube. I wonder if that pressure wouldn't be enoughg o blow any lube out of the hole and into the action?

Other than the carrier and bolt getting messy from lube I don't see a real problem.

I may need to go cast a bunch of RCBS 55 trainers and go try in my AR. I just don't know how well they will like the 7 twist barrel?

[guidogoose]

A month or so ack there was a post here by a guy who ran 500 rounds thru his AR pretty quickly. No problems.

Too many are using cast in M1 and AR 15 to have this be a real issue.

I wonder if some of the problem in your 22 conversion was a combination of bullet lube and low pressure. An AR is going to use a totally different lube which may, or may. It, get into the gas tube and will have. Uh higher pressure in the tube. I wonder if that pressure wouldn't be enoughg o blow any lube out of the hole and into the action?

Other than the carrier and bolt getting messy from lube I don't see a real problem.

I may need to go cast a bunch of RCBS 55 trainers and go try in my AR. I just don't know how well they will like the 7 twist barrel?

You may be right. I only used plated Mini Mags in it. Still had problems. I had a 1 in 9 twist barrel at the time. Hope the 55gr cast works out for you. If so, I feel there may be a new mold in my future. Any thoughts on an alloy for the AR?

[btroj]

For my AR I would go pretty hard. The bullet will need it to resist stripping in the 7 twist barrel.

I have lots of monotype so I would probably go 4 pounds monotype in 16 pounds pure, add a pound of mag shot and water drop. If that didn't work I would go to 5/15 then add the shot.

I haven't shot the AR in 6 years or so since I stopped shooting NRA highpower. Might be good to get the old girl out.

[Lizard333]

I'm using 9 pounds COWW to 1 pound Lino Water Dropped. Hardness is at 24. No Problems. I also shoot a lot of cast out of my M1. You just have to try it for yourself.

[btroj]

That would be a plenty hard alloy.
What sort of load and is it cycling the action?

[Ruckmanite]

Man you guys are just awesome! I am going to buy a Stag Arms SA2 and you set my mind totally at ease. It is a 1:9 twist so from what you guys have said my Lyman mold and the proper alloy should work just fine! Thanks for helping a newbie out! I have been casting about a year now and I am totally addicted lol. Thanks again!!

[runfiverun]

i am using my 4/6/90 alloy i drop them in water but seriously doubt it adds anything to the hardness.
i started with linotype and found better accuracy with the softer alloy.

if you are gonna do the 223 h/v thing i will suggest the ffairly hard alloy.
and a scrupulous visual sorting.
followed by weight sorting, then test the different weights against each other.
you will find one weight or a tenth gr apart at most will shoot best.
for instance .3 and .4 does not shoot as well as just the .4, or the .4 and .5 weights do.
if i keep all the .4's and .5's separated they shoot even better, rejecting all above or below this weight will keep groups small. [in all of my 22 cal rifles not just the AR's]
or just use them for general rock plinking unless 3.00" low/medium velocity groups are good enough.

[btroj]

What kind of loads are you running Run?
I don't have much of a suitable powder for 223 other than REx15 but don't really want to run them real fast.
A load that just barely cycles the action would be fine with me.

[Lizard333]

18 grains of H4895 cycles the action, but is not pushing it by any stretch. The primers are still rounded at the edges and don't show any signs of pushing it. I am working the load up higher to get the same POA as ball ammo.

[fcvan]

My loads for the 225-415 is 14 grains of IMR 4227 for ~2200 fps. It cycles the mini 14 just fine. I have shot quite a few rounds and have not noticed appreciable fouling in the gas port. I'll be running some of these loads through my brother's AR next week when he gets it put together. We have also been running cast through his M1 Carbine without any visible problems. Frank

[runfiverun]

i'm at 22.5 grs of imr 4895 it works super good in my 12 twist ruger.
there are some pictures of some groups posted here somewhere from this combo, many of them are in the 3's measured outside to outside [shot with commercial cases weight sorted also]

little girl couldn't resist shooting it in the ar.
it's the same load and boolits i was talking about alternating with the polymer coated swaged ones in the lube thread.
you should have no problems lowering the load to the 18 gr range.
but the 22.5 works well in the 22-250 and the swift cases too with the same boolits.

switching to H-4895 pushes them just enough over the edge to open the groups.
and into the 1-1/2 inch range if i use the softer [swaged] naked lead flat pointed boolits.
so i have to slow them down to about 2300 fps in the bolt guns to gain most of the accuracy back [even though they fit the throat better]
but they sure make much,much better hunting boolits for ground squirells.
i have to make the swaged jaxketed much softer too, for better varminting boolits,and i have to slow them down some too.

[Moonie]

I use 16gr H4895 in my sons 5.56 mid-length upper, functions perfectly with 55-60gr boolits. No leading of anything, barrel, tube or BCG. I can understand why using an adapter for 22lr will cause leading as the boolits in 22lr cases are smaller than spec...

[guidogoose]

Ok I'm sold on the idea of using cast in an AR. Any mold recommendations? Size to .225 or??

[Lizard333]

I'm sizing to 225.

[Puddin99]

What about mold suggestions?

[troy_mclure]

Noe had a group buy on here recently for a 62gr rn that was pretty popular, plus lots of fancy flat point stuff. Look in his online store and see what he has. Fwiw I'm shooting a BAC lubed, noe 62gr boolit, @2100fps, using win748. No leading, no issues.

For full function on light loads a wolf low power recoil spring will run you <$15. That way you don't have a single shot.

[Lizard333]

Will this spring work on sub sonic loads? I'm kinda having to one shot my sub sonic loads, as they are only 3.2 grains of clays under a 55 grain FMJ.

[guidogoose]

Noe had a group buy on here recently for a 62gr rn that was pretty popular, plus lots of fancy flat point stuff. Look in his online store and see what he has. Fwiw I'm shooting a BAC lubed, noe 62gr boolit, @2100fps, using win748. No leading, no issues.

For full function on light loads a wolf low power recoil spring will run you <$15. That way you don't have a single shot.

Ok, thanks I will look into that.

[Moonie]

Will this spring work on sub sonic loads? I'm kinda having to one shot my sub sonic loads, as they are only 3.2 grains of clays under a 55 grain FMJ.

Its more about gas pressure/volume at the port, Clays is never going to give you the gas pressure/volume to run an AR gas system, you will be WAY over pressure limit before the gas volume functions it.