1 in 38 twist rate

[fecmech]

A friend is considering a Henry rifle in .44 mag and I noticed the twist on that is 1 in 38". I know this keeps you to the lighter side of the boolit spectrum and that is no problem for him. Does that twist rate limit you to the 240-250gr. range as the heavy end or is it possible to go heavier than that??

[KCSO]

In 45 Colt 1-38 will shoot 200 and 225 excellent,( under 3"), 240/250 open up a couple of inches at 100 and 260 and 300's go 6 inches or more.

[JeffinNZ]

I asked some time ago why it is that a .44 has a 1-38 twist but a .357 has a 1-18. History apparently.

Strikes me me that 1-18 is a bit quick and 1-38 is a shade slow. What do you do though.

[andrew375]

My M94 has a 1 in 38" and works well with 250gr. Keith and the 330gr. LBT.

One reason put forward for needing faster twists in pistols is that the bullet is subject to greater destabalising forces at the muzzle due to higher muzzle pressure.

[Bass Ackward]

A friend is considering a Henry rifle in .44 mag and I noticed the twist on that is 1 in 38". I know this keeps you to the lighter side of the boolit spectrum and that is no problem for him. Does that twist rate limit you to the 240-250gr. range as the heavy end or is it possible to go heavier than that??


I have two rifles with a measured 38 twist rate. Both perform well with 250s on down. When you go on up in weight from there, both will give you the impression that everything is OK at 50, but go out to 100 and one gun will and maintain close to the same accuracy standard and one won't and shows tipping.

Don't ask me why. Same size bores, good crowns, etc.

[VTDW]

What kind of rifleing?

[Char-Gar]

Let's dont forget when it comes to the bullet weight(length) vs. rifling twist conversations, that bullet velocity is also a big factor in what will and what won't stabilize.

[9.3X62AL]

Good point, Charles. My '73 Win with 1-38" pitch does fine with 200-215 grain boolits at 1000-1200 FPS, but the few 240's I've tried at around 900 FPS did not do well at all. 240's in a (now-departed) Marlin 94 x 44 Magnum with the same twist rate shot very well, from max loads near 1800 FPS down to about 1250 FPS. Trans-sonic effects might be a wild card here, but when velocities went lower, targeting went downstream.

[Ranch Dog]

I have the 1:38 in a Marlin 336-44 and 444T and don't have any problems with heavy cast boolits. I do push them hard and of course these rifles have the Marlin Micro-Grooves. I had a H&R Ultra Hunter chambered in 444 Marlin with the 1:38 twist and Ballard rifling and it shot heavy boolits just as well. I personally don't think the rifling or twist matters if you push them hard.

To push them hard I believe the bore needs to be concentric (constrictions removed) and the boolit over fit the barrel .001" to .002". This boolit size along with the seating depth should also cause the throat of the rifle's chamber to be filled. This isn't to hard as heavy boolits are long. Before starting a loading run on the bench, be sure that the boolit diamter and OAL and boolit cycles smoothly from the magazine tube and into the chamber.

[fecmech]

Thanks for the info guys I appreciate it. He is mainly buying the gun for plinking and shooting at a local club that does 100 yd cast silhouette during the summer time. It's not too demanding( with the rifles) as we shoot NRA hunter pistol targets with both cast boolit rifles and centerfire pistols. I shoot my Rossi .357 single shot with .38's and do pretty well. Cost is $3. for 40 targets so it's a great low cost way to spend an afternoon.

[KCSO]

You need to go back to Greenhill's and what the rifles were designed for...
The 44-40, 38-40 ect were designed as combination ctgs with an emphasis on rifle preformance. To get acceptable trajectory they went with a 200 grain bulet that could be pushed to about 1300 with b/p and would be an acceptable killer to say 100-150 yards? Remembering that in 1875 a 200 at 1300 was reconed to be a good killer. The 38-357 was designed as a PISTOL ctg and the 1-16 to 1-18 twist was adopted as providing the best accuracy from a PISTOL to 50 yards or better. In 1875 no one could imagine pushing a 200 + bullet at 2000 fps in just about anything let alone a pistol size ctg. If they would have they would have adopted a different twist. Yes a 1-38 will stabalize a 240 marginally at above 1400 fps but a 1-22 would be much better. If you are sticking with 1300 or less you probably need to stay with the lighter bullets. This depends on what you are shooting also as if all you need to do is hit a 12" plate at 50 yards it doesn't make much difference, but if you arfe trying to put 4 out of 5 on a playing card at 100yards thats a different story.

[DonH]

I too have wondered why the mfrs. stick with the 1=38 twist in the .44 rifles. I am a believer in the energy retention/momentum of bullets somewhat heavier than the standard 240/250s. I equate this to the .40-65 Win which was developed with a similarly slow twist for a 260 gr bullet. Modern usage of the round is with a much faster twist to stabilize heavier (400+ gr) bullets. Mine has a 1-16 twist and shoots 210 gr revolver bullets and 400 gr cast bullets with equal accuracy. I wish someone would turn that slow-twist .44 sacred cow into hamburger!

[Ranch Dog]

II wish someone would turn that slow-twist .44 sacred cow into hamburger!

Marlin has gone to the 1:20 on the 444 but retains the 1:38 on the 44 Mag.

[KCSO]

Not everyone does, I had a 73 copy by Euro arms and it had a 1-22 twist in a 44-40. Now here is the connudrum, you couldn't push a 240 bullet fast enough at B?P pressures to get optimum stabilization and the 200's were a tad over spun. The same twist in a 44 mag is just about perfect for 240-300 at 1400 or above. The other thing to remember is that most of these guns are made where NO ONE is allowed to use them so they either copy what is sent them, boogers and all, or they do what the importer tells them and a lot of the importers make all their decisions from sales data. My expirences with most of them is that thye know a lot more about stocks and bonds than powder and ball.