Basement flood, safe repair question

[rbstern]

Had a water main break at our house while we were away on July 4th. Finished areas of the basement are pretty much trashed. Water got to about 2" high in some areas, so all of the flooring, trim and much of the sheet rock is damaged.

The bottom of my gun safe got wet. There's a particle board base that sits atop the metal base, with holes in the board for the floor bolts. That's wet and swollen. On top of the bottom board sits the bottom edges of the fabric-covered gypsum board that make up the side and back fireproofing. The base of those boards are wet, too. Based on what the water remediation experts are telling me, drywall that's wet is an invitation for mold and mildew and has to be discarded, so I'm guessing the interior of the safe will have to be redone.

I'm wondering if the safe is repairable, given the value (paid $500 for it six years ago), and if so, who I would call to estimate and potentially repair it? I've got good insurance, and they'll cover what's needed to make it right.

Any helpful comments appreciated.

[geargnasher]

Let the insurance company replace the safe, and maybe if they'll let you and if you have the extra cash, you can pay the difference for an upgraded or larger safe. The old one can be fixed I'm sure, and depending on the grade of sheetrock used in the safe it might be water or mildew resistant. The safe manufacturer would be the one to contact for that info. Just because it got wet doesn't mean it's going to mildew, provided you can dry it out in time and keep it dry.

Gear

[BD]

Dip the bottom edges of the wet drywall panels in a 20% bleach solution and then let them dry out. If they haven't changed shape they'll be fine. The bleach will probably affect the color of the the fabric covering, So What? Some types of particle board will shrink back when dry, some don't. If the bottom "board"doesn't shrink back into shape replace it.

There are many areas of the country where folks deal with periodic flooding on a continual basis. It's only the insurance companies and other ninnies that run around mindlessly screaming,
"The mold is coming, the mold is coming!" Dry stuff out and get on with life.
BD

[shooter93]

Personally I change any drywall that got soaked. You may not have to replace it all especially on the walls. Cut it off a foot or two above the the floor or where ever it's dry. We do that for people all the time. It's not just the drywall but any insulation behind it and the framing and fasteners. Framing can hold water for a very long time. I do deal with insurance companies all the time. If they will cover the damage under you policy and you don't repair it and have trouble later you claim has been settled. You carry insurance for a reason.

[rbstern]

Personally I change any drywall that got soaked. You may not have to replace it all especially on the walls. Cut it off a foot or two above the the floor or where ever it's dry. We do that for people all the time. It's not just the drywall but any insulation behind it and the framing and fasteners. Framing can hold water for a very long time. I do deal with insurance companies all the time. If they will cover the damage under you policy and you don't repair it and have trouble later you claim has been settled. You carry insurance for a reason.

First call we made after we got the water shut off was to a water damage cleanup company. They got to us fast, got all the carpet and flooring up, vacuumed out all the water and had fans and dehumidifiers running within a few hours of starting. The next day, they cut away all of the drywall to about two feet off the floor. Insurance adjuster came in today and said they did everything right. Basement is nearly dry now. Another day or two with one fan and a couple of dehumidifiers and it should be ready for the rebuild.

Doesn't help with the safe. I showed the adjuster the damaged base of the safe, he suggested having the refinish contractor make a new wood base, but I didn't think about the drywall in the sides at the time. I can email him about it, but I want to find out the cost of repairs first.

[shooterg]

When you fix it , use longer bolts through 4x4's to raise it. We did that in a friends house whose basement gets an inch or 2 water every couple years from the "monsoons" .

[gwpercle]

I can give some first hand advice concerning flooding. My wife is from New Oleans and has a lot of family living there, after the Katrina flooding we spent a lot of time cleaning thier flooded homes.

Every bit of particle board , sheetrock or other pourous material that has absorbed any moisture must be removed. Replace it if it has become wet or dampened. Check all steel parts for rust...the rust starts in tiny spaces and spreads. Remove any insulation that has become damp . Replace these materials with new dry materials. Get some rust nutralizer or paint formulated to stop rust and treat every metal area...rust can start in a tiny space and then it eats up the metal. After you got it rebuilt keep an electric dehumidifer in the safe.

It will take some work to properly rebuild it but it can be done. We had to do this with several houses, it's an effort but make sure to do it right.

gary

[rbstern]

Thanks for all the comments.

Have the safe completely apart now. What a mess. Lots of rust on the bottom and up the sides. The interior panels are swollen and already showing mildew. All of the interior panels except the top and the shelf were destroyed by the water.

Contacted the manufacturer. Safe is out of production, no parts available. It's a custom refit and they advise not worth it based on the logistics and the value of the safe. If it gets rebuilt, it's gonna be me, probably following the steps the gwpercle laid out. Will probably also elevate it with a concrete pad, against a potential recurrence.

[gwpercle]

If you can do the work it will be worth it. You can take your time and make sure it's done right, It will probably be better than new because you can use materials like marine grade plywood and weatherproof gypsum board. These products are made to take some moisture and not be damaged by it. When you go to purchase materials explain to sales person you want weatherproof, they will be able to help you pick something that wont mildew.
Anything that has mildew remove it and replace it, Paper based gypsum board is prone to meldew and there is no way to treat it or clean it . the mildew smell allways comes back . And be sure to treat all the rust, stop it and prime and paint everything with something like Rustoleum products. If you can take the safe apart I have no dought you can fix it. Take some before and after pics and keep us posted. If you set it on some concrete blocks it will be 8 inches higher, that should be enough. By filling the cavities with conc. and casting the floor bolts into the wet conc. the safe isn't likely to walk off .

Good luck
gary

[rbstern]

Gary, thanks. Some pics of the safe below.

The rust isn't just surface rust. It's penetrated a bit, so I think I'm going to be grinding and sanding if I hope to save it.

Another possibility is just forgetting about the the fireproofing, welding some angle iron inside for shelf supports, put in a couple of shelves and long gun fixtures, and just use it as a security container. Not sure yet. Will contemplate.

http://www.zjstech.net/gunstuff/safe/safe2.jpg
http://www.zjstech.net/gunstuff/safe/safe3.jpg
http://www.zjstech.net/gunstuff/safe/safe1.jpg
http://www.zjstech.net/gunstuff/safe/safe4.jpg

[gwpercle]

Wow ... I see what you mean about the rust. It's a crying shame the maker didn't bother to put a coat of primer or anything on the bare steel , that's just not right...what brand of safe is it ? Weatherproof gypsum board is not expensive,
it's used on shower walls as a backing for tile and around bathtubs where moisture is high and you could use construction adhesive to glue it to inside walls.
But now that I think about it , a 5/8 inch thick piece of gyp. board is only rated for a 30 minute barrier.... how thick was the gyp. board you removed ? I can't tell from the photo..but two layers of 5/8 inch gyp board , glued together, and glued to the wall would be a 1 hour rated barrier...If that could be done you would have
a decent fire proofing. If only 1 layer can be installed it might not be worth the bother. Most of the guns I have seen that were in a gun safe during a fire were covered with a oily , sooty smoke residue that was somewhat corrosive to metal and if not cleaned off soon caused damage to the metal.

thanks for photo's...gary

[leadman]

Get the JASCO rust convertor from Home Depot. Remove any loose paint or rust and bruch this on. It changes the rust chemically and can be painted over.
I used it on the roof of an old GMC van that the paint had weathered off and had rust showing thru. sanded it with a vibrator sander and did the Jasco. Primed it and painted it. When my son got rid of it 5 years later it still looked good with no rust showing.

[Lee]

Jeez man I dont want to statr a pee contest. But I never seen a stuff that converts rust to no rust. Need to know more.

[waksupi]

Jeez man I dont want to statr a pee contest. But I never seen a stuff that converts rust to no rust. Need to know more.

It's been around for years. I think I got my last can at Napa.

[gwpercle]

Several companys make a rust neutralizer or rust converter and they work well.
The last I bought was from Loctite co. but they all work. A chemical turns the rust black and stops the rusting process. Paint over it with Rustoleum type paint and you are good to go. I got a 1968 Chevelle that had rust all around the rear window and trunk...BAD... but after two coats of neutralizer then paint it no longer rusts. They make two kinds a spray and bottle that you brush on...I like brush on , more control and easier to use. The spray loses a good deal in overspray. The stuff is great in the war against rust.

gary

[HangFireW8]

Dip the bottom edges of the wet drywall panels in a 20% bleach solution and then let them dry out. If they haven't changed shape they'll be fine. The bleach will probably affect the color of the the fabric covering, So What? Some types of particle board will shrink back when dry, some don't. If the bottom "board"doesn't shrink back into shape replace it.

There are many areas of the country where folks deal with periodic flooding on a continual basis. It's only the insurance companies and other ninnies that run around mindlessly screaming,
"The mold is coming, the mold is coming!" Dry stuff out and get on with life.
BD

Chlorine is neither a mildicide nor a fungicide. Forster 40/80 is.

Even the green drywall is paper and not even green on the back. It is made for higher humidity like a bathroom- and that on one side only. Dens armour Plus is a true water resistant drywall. Almost no builders use it, or even know about it.

HF

[danielk]

Chlorine is neither a mildicide nor a fungicide. Forster 40/80 is.

HF

+1 I am a Restoration Contractor that specializes in Water/Fire Restoration and Mold Remediation. Bleach won't kill mold or mildew, it only bleaches the color out so you think its gone. Why do you think mildew comes back in your shower so quickly. Fosters is a good product, we use Microban though. If you can't get either products pool grade hydrogen peroxide will kill your mold for you.

If you ride your insurance adjuster hard enough he will replace your safe with the pictures you have. Most people don't know but adjusters get paid by the job and aren't paid till the claim is closed. Therefore they have incentive to hurry you along and collect there check. Ride him hard enough and he'll bend just to be done with you. Sorry for your water loss!!

[BD]

Common chlorine bleach is not an effective agent for mold remediation, (getting rid of mold that's established in a porous surface), however, a 20% solution is 100% effective in preventing mold spores on dampened porous materials from becoming established if applied promptly. I've been using it in this manner for 40 years with excellent success. The key is to get the bleach into the porous material while it's still damp, before the mold is established. The pictures of the safe in question make it clear that that window of opportunity has passed. Of course it will not work on wall cavities unless you open them up and it will bleach out colors, but it is cheap and readily available. It is a home remedy, not a professional remediation product, but it does work.

Both densdeck and densglass sheet products are more resistant to surface water damage than any of the paper faced drywall products, but they are still gypsum on the inside, and if submerged the issue of mold still needs to be addressed. I've used these primarily for soffits below the fed flood level, and as roof decking under built up elastomeric roofing. There are other products that are not gypsum in the middle which are much more durable in situations where they might get submerged.

The most common process to "kill" rust so it can be painted is the application of phosphoric acid which converts the iron oxide, (most rust), to iron phosphate which is much more stable and will take primer and paint. You need to remove any loose material by sanding or sand blasting first. Phosphoric acid is the active ingredient in Naval Jelly, and as far as I know, in most of the spray can products sold at Napa or the hardware store. Many of these have dryers and binders added so you don't have to rinse it back off. In my experience it can be most economically bought in a consumer usable form under the brand name "Ospho", in quarts or gallons for $25 a gallon or so, (a gallon will do quite a lot of steel, like 100 linear feet of 14" I-beam). If you use Ospho, it should be rinsed off and allowed to dry before painting. Most good hardware stores near the coast will have it. I've always applied it with an acid resistant spray bottle, or a plastic pump up sprayer for bigger jobs. You will need an acid cartridge respirator to do this safely on a large scale. For small jobs, set up a fan and be careful not to breath the fumes. When I'm killing rust on something I'm planning to keep forever, I'll spray it with Ospho, keeping it wet for 20 minutes, rinse it off, let it dry and prime it with ZRC cold galvanizing primer. I've also had engineers require me to Ospho rebar if it's been exposed in the forms long enough to show any significant rusting prior to the pour, and I require it's use on structural steel prior to priming if any rust is apparent.
BD

[BD]

These are the products I use to "kill" rust on steel:

http://www.ospho.com/
http://www.zrcworldwide.com/p_galvilite.asp

[BD]

This is the best wall board product I'm come across for areas that may get really wet from time to time. It meets the code for below fed flood level. Be forewarned: It's tough to work with. You cut it with a saw or carbide router tips.

http://www.usg.com/fiberock-aqua-tough-interior-panels.html