Just a few tips for new rifle casters.

[MBTcustom]

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[tomme boy]

:goodpost:

Sticky!

[waksupi]

You have learned well, grasshopper.

[handyman25]

Very good post. The only thing I would do different is to use cerrosafe to do a chamber, throat, freebore etc test. Also I would start out before shooting any cast bullet with a clean bore and I mean cleaner that my drill sargent wanted. As I said a very good post. I award you two gold stars.:bigsmyl2:

[MBTcustom]

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[462]

Very well done. I find composition and editing a daunting and time-consuming task, and highly commend you for taking the time to compose this. I'm sure the person you, initially, wrote it for was very grateful for the help. Sharing it with the entire Cast Boolits membership is an act of great generosity.

That much information, all in one post, should get any novice cast boolit rifle shooter on the right road.

[Silver Hand]

That is a great piece of work. I will read it several times over.
Thank you.

[Loadinfool]

What great info. Thanks for taking the time to provide this great insight to loading cast bullets for those of us less experienced. Would most of these techniques not work for revolvers also?
Could I not also measure revolver cylinder throat diameters using the same method of upsetting a soft lead slug in the throut, removing it, then measuring the diameter? Or is it better to just use pins?
Thanks again for great info !!

[MBTcustom]

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[1Shirt]

Well written thread, a must read in my opinion for newbees casting for rifle!
1Shirt!

[Longwood]

Good going Goodsteel
One nice thing about it being on the net is it is a bit like a Wiki.
It can be edited/added too as time goes on.
Please do not let it get lost in the dark depths of the archives.

[DaveS]

Yes. Thank you Goodsteel, I am just starting out reloading 7mm for a Mauser and was looking for something else but your post has probably saved me time and heartache!

[MBTcustom]

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[MBTcustom]

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[sw282]

l suspect it might be best to neck only for bolt action and single shot rifles.

[badgeredd]

l suspect it might be best to neck only for bolt action and single shot rifles.

You're kinda correct in your statement. Let your firearms tell you if it NEEDS to have the brass full length sized. SOME single shots (particularly with high intensity loads) will need full length sized. If you can neck size only even every other reloading it'll save working your brass which contributes to longer brass life. It has been my experience that even semi-auto rifles can be reloaded with neck size only under the right circumstances. Again, let your gun tell you what it needs/likes and don't get set in one way of doing everything under every circumstance. EXPERIMENT!

Edd

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[smokepole]

Great post ...One thing I have not seen mentioned is the need to bell the mouth of the case slightly before seating the boolit. This step is absolutely nessasary if not done, the case mouth will shave material from the boolit. Causing an out of round boolit.

I might be getting ahead of myself...but, needed to post this for the newbes.

[UBER7MM]

Thank you Goodsteel,

You've put the process into concise words. I specially appreciate the section on how to create a chamber/throat gauge from a lead filled case and pure lead bullet. Genius!

Good shooting,

[MBTcustom]

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[Pitchnit]

I am just getting ready to start rifle casting for a Win 94 30/30. This is a great compilation of info and I will be relying on this post. It is just what I needed to get started. Thank you Goodsteel for taking the time to post this. I will be saving this to my favorites.

[Reloader270]

Goodsteel, thanks for this comprehensive tips!

[Boneguru]

great reading thanks

[Lizard333]

Very good read. I can only add one thing to your information that might be helpful to others. Ill probly get reamed for saying this but it come from past experience and knowledge from a barrel maker, way more knowledge about this than my self.

Brass and aluminum rods are fine to use on your barrel IF you can find them. Truth is, a steel rod, smaller than the diameter of your boolit, with the sharp edged removed from the ends, is just as effective, and SAFE, to send down your barrel. The thinking that putting anything steel down your barrel, is going to destroy it, is false. Steel is easy to find, and will last longer when you slug your barrel. Very little of the rod touches you barrel while slugging it. This is exactly how the major barrel manufacturers do it, because it is the most accurate way to determine size, and cost effective.

Other than that, I can argue with any of it. This info comes from experience, and Goodsteel, has put the time in. He's helped me in the past, and I now cast for everything from a seventy year old M1 Garand to new 223 Remington 700.

[MBTcustom]

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[tonyjones]

goodsteel,

+1. That is an excellent point. The crown must be protected at all times. Lots of folks are dumbfounded to learn how much damage a cleaning rod can/will do.

Regards,

Tony

[Lizard333]

Protecting the crown of the barrel goes without saying. Damage can be done with any type of rod. With a damaged crown you will never get an accurate shot.

[MBTcustom]

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[motorcycle_dan]

Well I really appreciate the how to education. My problem is too many guns. All this is great if you are loading Pb in one or two rifles. My problem is military rifles. I love 'em. ALL of 'em. I just wanted one of each. Except where I found an good deal and needed two of a particular example. So Safe was getting full and I bought another safe. As will happen, I left the lights out one day and apparently a No4MkII and a Mauser of some sorts got together and now there is a whole litter of old rifles in the new safe. So many that I may need another. Couple straight pulls cuz they are just kewl. Arisaka very rough but shoots great. Mausers from Argentina, Sweeden, etc. Now I like putting cast bullets through old rifles but do not have the luxury of time to devote to each rifle to get the exact bore/groove, freebore, etc.
How do others deal with this? Write it down for each rifle and attach log book to the trigger guard? I'm lucky to sort ammo into the correct pile. Not sure I have the organizing ability to keep such records of each.

[MrWolf]

Thank you for a very informative post that puts what I need to do in english I can understand. I had heard the terminology but was not sure of the application. Information like that makes it a lot easier on us newbs.

[MBTcustom]

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[blikseme300]

Tim, I just re-read this thread you started many months ago. Strange that some information never makes it into my thick skull during the first read.;-) It has been just a little over a year since I started to reload rifle cartridges with cast boolits and the journey has been interesting and illuminating. Your thread helped enormously. Thank You.

[LuvMy1911]

----If you get leading,(which I doubt) use a harder/tougher alloy like 94/3/3, or water quench your boolits to get them a touch harder.----
Maybe I missed it, But what exactly would be a good general starting alloy to use?
1. I am guessing that the 94/3/3 would be 94% lead, 3% antimony, 3% tin? I assume that a Lyman #2 (90/5/5) would be harder yet. Which the Lyman Cast bullet handbook uses as a basic benchmark metal? I've had some tell me to use straight WW (Wheel Weights), water or air cooled. But, DARN, they are hard to come by around here!

[MBTcustom]

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[LuvMy1911]

...I hope this helps....

More than you'll ever know it has helped. Being very new to the art of boolit casting, This "summary" thread has finally tied together a lot of basic principles into something that I hope I can eventually get thru my thick skull. I've ordered a little Rotometals "superhard" and some 1to20 lead/tin alloy. I think the handy alloy spreadsheet found elsewhere on this forum and the small scale I bought for $2 (yardsale) will help a to mix up the alloy suggested.

I hope to do a few things with cast bullets... Plinking, some deer hunting, and maybe try a little long range shooting (200-300 yards)

Thanks for posting this summary... it's a great starting place for newbies like me.

[NLS1]

Goodsteel thank you so much for the incredibly concise directions. That is going to save me a ton of headache as I start to cast for rifles as well as my revolvers.

Very glad to stumble on this thread today, and I will look through it much more.

Dan

[wmitty]

goodsteel:

Very informative and well written post! A great many ideas and tips condensed into a short and easy to read article. Well done!

[MBTcustom]

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[Slow Elk 45/70]

Tim, Great info for the new guys and the lurkers in one place...needs to be a sticky IMHO

[KrisR]

Thanks for the great info, I;m soaking in the information too cast my own. Have been buying a few bullets from the commercial guys too see how they do in my marlins, so far so much better than j bullets. Know if I can just get that soup can mold and :cbpour:

[MBTcustom]

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[Bishop]

I just bought my first dilion 550, and it'll be here in 2 days. I've learned a ton on this thread. Thank you all for taking the time to post useful info for those of us that are just getting started.

[jlchucker]

The truth is, this is a message that I sent to a new guy here (at least new to rifle casting) that was having trouble getting his boolits to work right.
I spent so much time typing it out, I saved it on my computer so that I would have it if I ever needed it again. Then I figured I would just make it into a post here so that you guys have a chance to shoot it full of holes, and if it ends up being bullet proof, I can reference it easily.
The thing I love about this place is that the information is solid. Its as solid as a math book once you get under the surface. Real Booleteers are solid on every point down to the minutest detail, and if there is a discrepancy we start a thread and beat it to a pulp until solid fact emerges.

I did mention cerrosafe as a second option, but there are instructions that come with that stuff when you buy it. Also it shrinks with time, so based on that fact, it is an inferior way considering that the only reason you are doing it is to get precision measurements, but I did mention it.
Also, I didn't go into detail about using a good ammonia based cleaner on the barrel (like Sweets 7.62) after cleaning and followed by cleaning and oiling in order to remove all traces of copper from the bore.
I also mentioned nothing about feeling for tight and loose spots in the barrel as the slug is pushed through (good info can be had from feeling for this!).

We need the capability of putting a "like" button on this website for posts like yours. Very informative indeed.

[Ruger6ppc]

Excellent post, very helpful.
A previous post got me thinking: Do any of the mold makers sell a grab bag of cast boolits from their molds for a shooter to mess with before buying the mold?
Say 20 count for each mold in a caliber? That way you could get an idea of what style/weight works well in your gun before buying an expensive mold.

[luvtn]

After reading the post all the way through I have decided that shooting cast in rifles for me is way too complicated. I don't have the space or tools to do all that . Thanks for saving me a lot of frustration.
lt

[Wally]

After reading the post all the way through I have decided that shooting cast in rifles for me is way too complicated. I don't have the space or tools to do all that . Thanks for saving me a lot of frustration.
lt

Don't give up so quick... look at the .30-06....take a sized case, bell it enough so a bullet starts using a center punch...seat a cast bullet (150~180 grains) unsized, that you can hand lube. Use a std primer and 13.0 grains of Red Dot or 15.0 of Unique...seat the bullet just long enough that it barely touches the Leade. You will be delighted with the results. One can perfect this and on some calibers one has to do a lot of perfecting... Typically the .22 calibers are the most challenging. I shoot 9 different rifle calibers with cast bullets and only the .22's were difficult.

[Wally]

I just want to thank everyone who has given kind words here.
When I wrote this, I just opened Word, and did a data dump to answer a guy's questions. I worked on it for a couple hours. I would type, then think, then type some more. I reread it about three times before sending it to the feller.
When I posted this here, I just wanted to be sure that I never had to do it again cause it actually took a bit of time, and I was afraid that I might leave some things out of I did it again just cause I wouldn't have the energy to do it twice.
Never thought it would be stuck, and I never thought it would actually be read by so many people! Matter of fact, I figured that everybody would pile on me about details that I got wrong (I've still got my fingers crossed BTW LOL!)
I'm just so glad that I was able to give back in some way.
Again, thanks for the kind words, and please remember that there are probably some flaws in some of what I wrote. I'm still just an expert in training like you, and I don't know everything. Double check what I wrote with your own results!
Again, thanks fellers!

I'd just like to add one refinement. When you charge the cases, place in a loading block take a flashlight and look into each and every case to check the powder level...you want to make certain that you have charged all cases and you didn't double charge them. Should you fire an uncharged cases the bullet could get stuck in the barrel .....firing the next one could very well burst the barrel.

[MBTcustom]

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[geargnasher]

Then you weren't paying very close attention with the flashlight inspection. The difference between a regular and double-charge of Unique in an '06 case is about 5/8", but if one is new to visual inspections it's a good idea to intentionally double-charge a case for comparison to a normal charge so you can calibrate your eyeball. (just don't forget to dump it out, eh?) I either use two blocks or work to opposite ends like you suggest, but I check with a pen light anyway as extra insurance.

Gear

[MBTcustom]

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[Wally]

Setting up a loading block and charging all the cases by moving it under the powder measure is a very dangerous practice. I'm not going to depend on my eyeball to tell me when I have a good charge. It's very easy to put a double charge of unique in a 30-06 that way. You'll have to beat the bolt open with a rubber mallet, in order to observe how the headstamp was almost obliterated from being smashed flat as a flitter, then you'll thank your lucky stars you were shooting a Winchester model 70 and not your 30-30. Then you might come to the conclusion that if you dump all your primed cases into a butter tub, take one out and charge it, stick it in the loading block, then grab another one and charge it, stick it in the loading block next to the first one, etc etc etc, it makes it virtually impossible to double charge or squib load a cartridge. You might just decide that it's worth moving brass around a little and really doesn't cost much in time.
Not that I would know anything about that.....:shock::roll:


OMG I don't charge the cases in a loading block---I charge them and them place them in the loading block---

[runfiverun]

I charge them then seat the boolit in place.
habit I picked up long ago.

[MBTcustom]

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[Wally]

I charge them then seat the boolit in place.
habit I picked up long ago.

Whatever works...I don't like that method as one gets greasy fingers

[Treetop]

Tim, IMO this is one of the best stickies on the forum!

The following pictures illustrate a good way to protect the muzzle from the rod being used to push the sizing slug through the bore or hammer the slug when taking chamber dimensions. I've been cleaning my M-1 and M1-A this way for decades, now. I learned these tricks back in the 70s and 80s from the old timers at our NRA High Power match. I used a tubing cutter and a .243 Win. case for this particular muzzle protector. Using different caliber bottle necked cases, this method could be used on different caliber rifles. Tt.

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o146/RMAJR/IMG_0054.jpg

Here's a similar tip for the M1-A, a 12 ga. shell is the right size to fit the flash suppressor, just drill out the primer pocket to fit your rod:

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o146/RMAJR/IMG_0055.jpg

[Love Life]

Thanks for the great ideas Treetop!!

[MBTcustom]

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[geargnasher]

I charge them then seat the boolit in place.
habit I picked up long ago.

That's a good one, too. Add the Richard Lee tip of upending each case just before charging to make sure it started out empty and it's even more foolproof.

I still batch-charge and use a light for final inspection because powder can do strange strange things like bridge or clump in the measure, or get static cling. You won't see that just charging each case and stuffing a boolit on top. I can usually see to within a couple grains if a charge is correct by comparing levels of all in the block. Once checked, all get sealed with a lead kiss and run through the seater die. I NEVER put a boolit on top of powder unless I've made a visual on the powder, even on a progressive and even if that means using a dentist's mirror.

The only reloading mentor I had when I started did the charge a case, seat a bullet thing, BUT he looked in each one with a light before putting it back in the shell holder. He dumped, weighed, and funneled back in every tenth charge for most stuff, and weighed every charge on some, one at a time, and always immediately seated a bullet on verified powder charges before the case left his hand.

Gear

[btroj]

I charge then seat a bullet. No loading blocks for me. Maybe this is why I dislike using a filler, it changes my pattern and habit.
Loading blocks scared me already but it got worse when I was shooting and had a few hunks of a stock go flying by me. Rifle being shot next to me got a double charge, stick the bolt, blew the sides of the magazine out. Scared the heck out of me and the shooter. Yes, he was shooting cast.

[MBTcustom]

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[btroj]

What is better is calling my wife and starting a conversation with "Everyone is OK" when I went to the range with her father.
Scared the heck out of both of us. He now weighs every finished round loaded with less than a full case of powder. He has been reloading since the 50s and this happened 5 years ago or so. No telling how many 100s of thousands of round he loaded when this happened.

Safety can never be taken for granted. Never.

[Ghost101]

This has been a GREAT post by the way.
I have an issue with trust. Even with myself. I take the powder charger, dump it into the pan for my scale. Measure it, an if need be trickle some more or pull some out an trickle again. Then I funnel it into the case, place the boolit into the case an seat it with the press. Always an always when I'm working new loads or ones on the top end of the scale. I Never trusted a powder throw. Never used a loading block. Doesn't matter which powder charger, RCBS, Dillon or Redding. Doesn't matter which press I'm using, whither it's a Lee handy press, or a Wilson/Sinclar, or a Rock Crusher, or a 450 Dillon, or either one of the 550's.
I think it all boils down to being German an Irish. The German thinks he knows what he's doing, but that Irishman doesn't trust him. Sad part is if I ever get to the point of not trusting my scales, I'm done for.

Ghost101

[MBTcustom]

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[geargnasher]

Speaking of scales, I almost pulled a dumazz move of the highest order by violating one of reloading's most basic safety guidelines: Never reload while "too" tired. I was loading way late one night for the next day, had been on a tight schedule, and set the scale 10 grains too high on 5-something-grain-load. Caught it with the light ("hmm, that don't look right"). Now I double-check my beam scale setting with a digital jobbie, just so my brain gets to confirm the weight numbers in a different visual format that uses a different cognitive area. I've been using beam scales for over 20 years and that one time my brain didn't fully connect. That one time is all it takes.

Just like with firearm safety, reloading safety routines should incorporate multiple fail-safes when possible.

Gear

[Ghost101]

That's why I bought the electric Dillon to check my RCBS balance beam. As for the powder chargers, I haven't found one that will throw a consent charge every time. The new Dillons don't perform as well as the old 450 ones did.
Although, my practice ammo,which is the bulk of my reloading, is done on a progressive press. Checking the powder every 5 rounds. Some powders just measure better then others.
I'm not an expert, nor will I ever be. The older I get, the more I relies I don't know. lol

Ghost101

[w5pv]

Thank you Goodsteel,I am glad you take time to explain these things.

[justing]

great sticky i now shoot only cast from my rifles in many calibers thanks to all for the sage advice.

[helice]

Like R5R I too seat my boolit right after I dump my charge. I too had a man at the next table blow up a rifle, a Mosin of all things. It is a sobering thing to see a guy bleeding hand and face while his buddy is picking up gun parts. If they hadn't been so obnoxious we all might have felt sorry for them.

[MBTcustom]

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[youngda9]

^^ Wise ovservation goodsteel. Bravo!

[Captain Capsize]

I have been reloading rifle/pistol for 20+ years and casting some of my own boolits for maybe 10 years. I can't believe how much I didn't know! Thank-you Goodsteel.

[45-70Govt]

Seriously, after reading the OP halfway down, my eyes got blurry and my brain seized up. For me that is way way to much trouble. I've got some HC bullets here, some bought some done myself. I diddle with a few different powders and loads. If they shoots.........Good. if not.........NEXT.

The only cal I would consider to hunt with are 44 and 45.
In my end of the world we have one deer tag per person/season and I don't like the thought of messing up when I have jacketed stuff that works great. No offfense meant, my hat off to you if you can get what you hunt with Cast.

[MBTcustom]

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[Jammersix]

Okay, stupid question time. Since I'm the designated stupid question guy, here goes. (And before you tell me there are no stupid questions, let me say this: anyone who believes that hasn't met my apprentice. That kid can't tell the difference between... well, never mind.)

When you say "long range hole punching", how long do you mean?

I'm a hand gun guy, not a rifle guy, but I'm thinking of getting a rifle. I'm only interested if I can cast for it, and my longest available range is 200 yards. Which is really, really long to me-- I train people to shoot at twenty one feet. I'm not sure I can see 200 yards.

I was all settled on a .223, until I read this thread, and it sounds like .22 calibers are harder to cast for. Is that so, in your experience?

Thank you, Tim!

[MBTcustom]

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[Jammersix]

I can't help but notice your A list doesn't include 30-06, either.

[MBTcustom]

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[UBER7MM]

I held the same opinion for years my friend. Now I know better.

I once knew a man who only ate fastfood. He said he just couldn't see wasting all that time in front of a stove cooking his own meals from scratch. He said "For me that is way way to much trouble".
Then we had him over for dinner, and he watched Angie prepare the meal in a cast iron skillet and then we ate. Didn't seem like it was nearly such a waste of time when he got to try it, and it beat the heck out of box dinners that he had "cooked himself".
Anyway, sorry, I don't know where that came from. Brain fart I guess.

Must be a factory vs. hand loads allegory. My sentiments exactly.

[BUFFALOW RED]

OK, here's the skinny on lead alloys as far as I am concerned:
Pure lead will work at the lowest velocities with the gentlest, slowest burning powders. Black powder (which is actually an explosive) is much gentler on the boolits than smokless, so often, that is the place where you find pure lead being used.

Unless you are paper patching, the alloy does not have enough strength to seal the bore from the gasses and there will be cutting which will cause leading. Also, your boolit will try to strip the riflings witch has pretty much the same effect, unless you have a gas check, but even with a gas check once you strip the riflings, you are pretty much SOL for accuracy.
Here's a picture of a GC boolit that almost stripped all the riflings:
73769

So, you obviously need a little more hardness (at least on the surface of the driving bands) in order to drive a boolit like this. That's where antimony comes in. Antimony is your hardener. If you drop your boolits from the mold into cold water, it actually hardens them. The thing you have to remember is that they get harder yet over the next 2-3 weeks.

Now, again, look at the previous picture. You see how much is left of that boolit? This is what it started life as:
73770

So, its obvious that the boolit also just didn't have any toughness to it. This is where tin enters into the picture. Tin also adds a small amount of hardness, but its main feature is toughness. It will allow the boolit to bend and twist, but it will hold together much better.

When you mix tin and antimony together, they will play off eachothers strengths, and act like epoxy inside the boolit. Ie, the whole is greater than the sum of parts.

However, It is very important for accuracy as well as hunting effectiveness, to match the alloy to the application. Having boolits that are too hard will cause gas cutting as well. That's why wine bottles are stopped up with cork instead of wood LOL!
You want to play to the alloys strengths and not waste any valuable metal, so use as little antimony and Tin as you can get away with.

I think that an ideal alloy is 50/50 COWW and pure lead, which gives a really rough approximate alloy of 1.5% antimony, 1% tin, 97.5% lead. That alloy will be the cats meow for everything between 800 fps to 1800 fps with the addition of a gas check.

You are correct, COWW are getting very hard to come by, so you might as well start looking for other sources. There are still people that are selling Linotype alloy, and if you buy a couple hundred pounds of that, then all you need to concern yourself with is gathering pure lead (which is still the cheapest metal you can buy BTW), and some solder or tin to toughen the alloy (which is actually very expensive but a very little bit goes a very long way)

I hope this helps.


i been loading only BP for years. its so simple fill case up seat sofft boolit any way
this info is great but what is a COWW lead?
im wanting to cast some boolits for 303 brit & was cofused on lead hardnes wanted
can meaqsure with the pencil methoid
is a brass cleaing rod ok for being safe on crown ? i had this rifle recrowned once man it realy helped accuracy dont want to do it again
thanks for all the info i enjoyed reading it

[62chevy]

COWW means Clip On Wheel Weights.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?107406-Abbreviations-Acronyms-As-Used-on-This-Forum This link might help.

[WBG]

This information is exactly what I have been looking for. I realize that this is an older thread but the info is brand new to me. Thank you! I will be researching this site thoroughly as I progress.

Greatly appreciated, WBG

[Tenbender]

Well, I'm hooked. Cast my first 30cal's today. After about the first 20 it went smoothly. Cast 600 or so nice bright 150 gr. that weighed 143 . Right on the money at .309. Now to size , install the GC and lube. I have about 300 lb of WW to melt but that can wait until I get outdoors.

[Ed1]

Tagging for later

[gondwana]

Thank you goodsteel!

[MBTcustom]

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[Hooker53]

Man-------- I'm glad I found this thread. Just good stuff here. Thanks Tim. May have helped me find a prob with a #5 roller in 44-40.

Roy
Hooker53

[Hooker53]

All this is good info but, at this point I don't powder load all my brass at one time as a habit. I still take the time to hand measure each load and seat the Boolit right then. I know this takes extra time but, I'm the type that would rather take the time on 50/100 cart then to rush through 500.

Roy
Hooker53


Then you weren't paying very close attention with the flashlight inspection. The difference between a regular and double-charge of Unique in an '06 case is about 5/8", but if one is new to visual inspections it's a good idea to intentionally double-charge a case for comparison to a normal charge so you can calibrate your eyeball. (just don't forget to dump it out, eh?) I either use two blocks or work to opposite ends like you suggest, but I check with a pen light anyway as extra insurance.

Gear

[Don Fischer]

Well, I'm lost here. How do you put a full case of melted lead in the chamber, close the bolt on it, turn the gun over and administer the brass rod and keep the lead in the case melted all at the same time? How do you get the case of melted lead into the chamber unless you have a break action gun? and even then, I've noticed with my molds that lead stays hot a long time but melted not very long. I have not found a reason to try this but, can you fill a mold cavity with molten lead and try to get the lead out before it set's up. I doubt I can do that. Would be interesting to watch a video of this process.

[rsrocket1]

Well, I'm lost here. How do you put a full case of melted lead in the chamber, close the bolt on it, turn the gun over and administer the brass rod and keep the lead in the case melted all at the same time? How do you get the case of melted lead into the chamber unless you have a break action gun? and even then, I've noticed with my molds that lead stays hot a long time but melted not very long. I have not found a reason to try this but, can you fill a mold cavity with molten lead and try to get the lead out before it set's up. I doubt I can do that. Would be interesting to watch a video of this process.

You missed a step:

In order to get a chamber slug, take a once fired piece of brass from your rifle, and fill it with molten lead to just below the case mouth. Cast a lead boolit of pure lead. Insert the lead boolit into your breech, followed by the lead filled casing.

The lead filled brass casing is cooled and hard. This makes a solid "bullet holder" that won't allow the bullet to go anywhere while you're pounding on that bullet with a rod from the muzzle end. As you drive the pure lead bullet backwards into case, it is forced into the almost filled neck of the case and fills the rest of the space between the case mouth and the start of the rifling as well as getting smashed into the full width of the throat.

[Ovationdave]

Thanks for the OP, excellent info. It will be a while before I attempt to cast any 308's, but I have read this multiple times, and It sinks in a bit more each time, and I am reading up on some of the processes mentioned. Thanks again from a newbie!

Dave

[Motard]

thanks for sharing this knowledge

Sent from my C6903 using Forum Fiend v1.3.3.

[Don Fischer]

You missed a step:


The lead filled brass casing is cooled and hard. This makes a solid "bullet holder" that won't allow the bullet to go anywhere while you're pounding on that bullet with a rod from the muzzle end. As you drive the pure lead bullet backwards into case, it is forced into the almost filled neck of the case and fills the rest of the space between the case mouth and the start of the rifling as well as getting smashed into the full width of the throat.

That make's more sense but that isn't what it say's.

[kens]

this thread should be a sticky

[WGD118]

Umm not sure what the heck happened in February apparently something very bad, but I feel like most of the information in this sticky is missing.

[RogerDat]

The bulk of the information in this sticky is gone. Should it still be a sticky?

[No_1]

Left as a reminder that Goodsteel does not think we are worthy of his knowledge.

[jmort]

True
Some take the ball and run home

[No_1]

I was a bit short with my last post. He was banned some time back and by choice stayed away for a while even though the ban had expired. He eventually returned and was posting until he received an infraction. A few days later he changed a bunch of his post to reflect the message below. Apparently he has determined we are not worthy of his knowledge. Such is life....

Robert

[Hickory]

Sounds like a 6 year old taking his ball and going home.

[ChuckO]

Thanks to the "Wayback Machine", web.archive.org, the earliest posts here are still available.

[brewer12345]

Thanks to the "Wayback Machine", web.archive.org, the earliest posts here are still available.

Perhaps someone could post them in the thread so that we don't just have an empty/garbage sticky prominently displayed at the top of the forum?

[trapper9260]

I was a bit short with my last post. He was banned some time back and by choice stayed away for a while even though the ban had expired. He eventually returned and was posting until he received an infraction. A few days later he changed a bunch of his post to reflect the message below. Apparently he has determined we are not worthy of his knowledge. Such is life....

Robert

Sad how things can go .Thank you for letting know.I was wonder what happened to him.I was learning some thing from him also.

[JimB..]

Just to save folks from figuring out the wayback machine, here is a link to the first page and the content of the first post. http://web.archive.org/web/20140815073522/http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?158805-Just-a-few-tips-for-new-rifle-casters

If you are thinking that loading cast boolits is a little different than loading jacketed bullets you are right! This is a totally different deal. I didn't realize either until the fellas on CB got me lined out. The good news is that this is relatively simple once you understand what needs to happen and why. It’s just that you can be an expert reloader with jacketed bullets, without realizing that you are taking a whole slew of things for granted that you must control individually with a cast boolit. These same things are necessary with a jacketed projectile, but the extreme hardness of the bullets, make a lot of this a mute point, to the detriment of performance on the intended target. It has taken me a while to give up on my jacketed bullet crutch, but I have finally come to the conclusion that there is nothing that a jacketed bullet can do, that a cast boolit will do even better at 75% of the speed, except long range hole punching. If you can find a way to deliver a cast lead boolit to the target, it will out perform a jacketed bullet every time, but getting it there takes a little.....savvy.

You need to know the bore diameter and the groove diameter of your rifle.
In order to get this precise information, it is necessary to slug your barrel, and possibly use a pin gauge set.
In order to slug your barrel, get a pure lead slug (a fishing egg sinker works well for this) and drive it through a clean, oiled barrel, dropping it on a soft cushion like a T-shirt or a rag of some sort. Measure the OD to get your groove diameter. If you have few enough grooves, measure between them to get your bore diameter, or use precision pins in the actual barrel to get your bore diameter.

Next, you need to know what your chamber is like, and have a measurable rendering of the throat, free-bore, and neck of your rifle.
You can achieve this several ways, but the best is a chamber slug, followed by a cerosafe casting.
In order to get a chamber slug, take a once fired piece of brass from your rifle, and fill it with molten lead to just below the case mouth. Cast a lead boolit of pure lead. Insert the lead boolit into your breech, followed by the lead filled casing. Close your bolt on the casing. Take a 5/16 rod of aluminum or brass longer than your barrel, and put it down the muzzle until it touches the pure lead boolit. Use a hammer to pound the rod until it bounces, indicating that the lead has flowed everywhere it can and has filled every void. Carefully, open your breech and extract the lead filled cartridge casing. Give the rod a few light taps to dislodge the chamber slug from the breech. Measure it to determine the profile of your neck to throat transition, the throat diameter, and the length of the free-bore if any.
Edit: for more detailed information and pictures on how to do this operation, see this link:http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...o-a-pound-cast

Now, your boolit should match these dimensions.
First of all, the nose of your projectile should be exactly the same as your bore diameter, or no more than .0005 less.
Second, the driving bands are to be .001-.002 bigger than your groove diameter, unless the free-bore of your rifle measures bigger than the groove diameter, in which case the boolit's driving bands are to be .001 less than the diameter of the free-bore.
If your rifle has no free-bore, and all you have is a tapering lead-in, (aka throat) then the boolit must be .001-.002 larger than the groove diameter of the barrel, and the forward-most driving band should have an angle that compliments the throat angle, and should not protrude from the case mouth far enough to crash into that angle. A chambered cartridge should make the driving band just kiss the throat angle with perhaps .001 press upon closing the action.

Now, your brass should be as long as it can be without crushing the case mouth into the end of the chamber. Your neck should stop just .001-.005 short of bottoming out in the chamber.
Load a dummy cartridge to these specs, smoke it with lamp black, and chamber it. You should see the lands wipe shiny streaks on the bore-riding section of your boolit, and leave shiny marks around the perimeter of the first driving band. Obviously, the cartridge should chamber easily. If you have no contact in these areas, do it over with a longer dummy till you find that spot. Don't quit until you have this right.

It may require mold modification or brass modification or even new brass, or a new mold, but that does not change the fact that it must be this way, but you are working on becoming an expert reloader, so this should be no problem.

Once you have these things right, pull the boolit as gently as you can from the casing and measure the OD. If it is not .001-.002 over the groove diameter blah, blah, blah, make or have made, a neck expanding tool, or buy a Lyman M die so that your brass will quit squishing the boolit down undersized. Once you have this taken care of, reload the dummy, smoke it and do the whole cambering thing again.

Once you have things going your way on every last one of these instructions, load up ten dummies, smoke them and cycle them through your magazine/tube/etc etc and cycle them as you normally would. Observe if they are consistent in all these critical points. If they are, do it for real. Load up 10 rounds and shoot them. Don't worry about accuracy for the moment, just load 'em somewhere in the middle and blast them off and see what your barrel does. If you get leading,(which I doubt) use a harder/tougher alloy like 94/3/3, or water quench your boolits to get them a touch harder.
Shoot again. You want a smoky looking barrel with a little bit of a lube star on the muzzle and NO LEADING.

I am sure you are aware of ladder testing? Load 50 cartridges each with different lubes. Just for starters I would load FWFL, White Label BAC, and Javalina lube.
Load 50 progressively larger charges of powder, starting with the minimum and ending at the maximum, with each lube choice. Go to the range and shoot them methodically.

Note your accuracy nodes and keep the most accurate combination. (Edit to add) Since writing this I have changed my method so that I load 5 cartridges each in each charge 1/2 grain at a time, minimum to maximum. Each charge is a law unto itself. The one merit that shooting a ladder has in this case is that you can easily determine when and if your lube fails, but you'll know it either way, so I just do 5 shot groups till I'm pretty sure I'm on a node, then I go to ten shot groups.

This is the best I can do to explain how to get the most from cast boolits.
Any of you more experienced shooters feel free to chime in and set me strait if I am wrong on any points here, this is just the way that I do it but I am still learning. I base every bit of this on what I have learned here at Cast boolits and can site who told me what, and why I believe it to be true.
I hope this helps somebody get where they are going.

[Drew P]

SO first you ban him, then when he takes his posts and leaves you decide to forcibly revive him. That’s just downright funny if you ask me. I’d love to know what his “infraction” was lol.

[kens]

SO first you ban him, then when he takes his posts and leaves you decide to forcibly revive him. That’s just downright funny if you ask me. I’d love to know what his “infraction” was lol.

yep,
+1

[sureYnot]

SO first you ban him, then when he takes his posts and leaves you decide to forcibly revive him. That’s just downright funny if you ask me. I’d love to know what his “infraction” was lol.Considering some of the frequent flyers who are complete jerks every time they post, you have to assume it was more than simply being "controversial". I doubt the details are for the public.

Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk

[JimB..]

SO first you ban him, then when he takes his posts and leaves you decide to forcibly revive him. That’s just downright funny if you ask me. I’d love to know what his “infraction” was lol.
I didn’t ban him or forcibly revive him, I simply posted a copy of the information that he provided previously to the forum. It’s the internet, that’s how it rolls.