Your thoughts on .40 S&W

[Jamesconn]

My mother wants to get her CHL lisence and has been gun shoppin with us once at one store, but she likes the S&W MP shield.

My dad wants her to get it in 9mm cause he loves 9mm and he wants to shoot the same ammo. I told him it didn't matter cause I reload and I'll get setup for .40S&W I wanted my mother to have the biggest caliber she is comfortable with because shes never been shooting with us before (despite my best efforts) I wanted her to have stopping power since she won't practice that much.

My friend has a glock in .40 and he has the keltech carbine that takes the same mags and loves it.

I've always been hesitant about buying anything in this caliber cause I didn't see a use for it that 9mm or 45acp couldn't do.

I'd appreciate it if you could share your experiences with this cartridge in compact pistols, full size pistols, and carbines and/or ballistic information favorite recipie etc. What are the standard bullet weights and flat point vs hollow point.

[Bullfrog]

Separate the caliber part, the weapon it is chambered part etc...

It comes down to what she can handle without flinch and can control (shot placement). As for the caliber the 40SW is a short 10mm which was developed for the FBI by SW because the FBI could not handle (control ) the 10mm. The ballistics are roughly the same as a .357 magnum on the hot end. Personally I love the caliber and my small frame wife loves it too! It is very controllable, but like anything requires practice.

[snuffy]

I'd appreciate it if you could share your experiences with this cartridge in compact pistols, full size pistols, and carbines and/or ballistic information favorite recipe etc.

The part in bold is what I'm concerned about. Put any cartridge you can comfortably shoot in a full-size pistol, in a compact, they can get nasty. I love shooting 9mm in my CZ-75B, but the same loads in my new Ruger LC-9 are a handful! Noisy, and it bites.

If your mom is the bit least gunshy, then stick with the 9 and get her some of the lightest loads you can find, or make some with 100 grain or lighter bullets.

[sargenv]

I know there are plenty of people who say this or that is more effective than X or Y.. but as ER doctors and Ambulance techs will attest, they've seen plenty of people put down by the even lesser .380 auto and I'm sure .22 lr/22 magnum.. having a gun at all is better than not having anything more than a pointy stick. :)

She should try a number of things and make up her own mind.. if you have an indoor range that rents guns, I'd suggest going that route. Lots of people tell me they want X caliber in a "small gun" not knowing what kind of incident they are setting up when X ammo kicks more than they can handle as opposed to X ammo in a slightly larger heavier gun..

[Trey45]

The smallest 40S&W pistol that I own is a Kahr T40, I can't even imagine what a gun like the Shield is going to feel like in 40 caliber. 9mm is bad enough when using 124gr +P ammo in it. Now bump that up to a 40 caliber 180gr going 1000fps+ in that small Shield and you've got a hand biter.
If there's a range near you guys that rents guns, have mom go with you one day and let her rent a few 40's in full size and see how she likes them, then let her rent a compact, or subcompact/micro 40 and shoot that, I bet she changes her mind about that Shield in 40 S&W.

[garym1a2]

40 in my Glock 22 is nice. It will bite in a compact and worse in a sub compact. A non shooter female like your mom will not shoot it much.

Just get a glock 19 for her.

[2wheelDuke]

We are having a similar conversation on my local gun forum.

I'd strongly recommend having her shoot one first, or at least something similar. It's really going to depend on how she handles it. A gun that's good for one person may not be so good for somebody else.

My Kel-Tec P3AT backup gun is a harsh little gun to shoot, and that's in the "wimpy" .380. I've shot the slightly larger PF-9 in 9mm and it's not much better. A gun that's not much bigger in .40 sounds pretty nasty.

I've talked to almost as many police firearms instructors that don't like the .40 as I have that love it. I've seen plenty of smaller recruits that can't handle it well, and that's in a full size duty weapon. Because of that, the instructors I mentioned favor the 9mm.

I personally have never shot a weapon chambered for .40S&W. I love the 10mm, but it's not for somebody that doesn't shoot much.

We got my mom a Glock 26 (9mm.) Compared to my Glock 30 (.45acp) EDC, it feels like you just had a squib go off. Better to hit with 9mm than miss with something bigger.

[cwlongshot]

We are having a similar conversation on my local gun forum.

I'd strongly recommend having her shoot one first, or at least something similar. It's really going to depend on how she handles it. A gun that's good for one person may not be so good for somebody else.


I've talked to almost as many police firearms instructors that don't like the .40 as I have that love it. I've seen plenty of smaller recruits that can't handle it well, and that's in a full size duty weapon. Because of that, the instructors I mentioned favor the 9mm.


Better to hit with 9mm than miss with something bigger.

I agree and fee the best advice so far is to go shoot some of the guns you are considering BEFORE purchasing.

We all know what WE like and what WE shoot well. None of that maters much if "mom" cannot shoot it well too.

All of the calibers mentioned will fit the "need" IMHO the 40 is a excellent choice and better then its "paper" ballistics show.

I too have had allot of contact with LE trainers being one myself. many people cannot shoot well, MOST is because of the gun/caliber/lack of training time.

Good luck,
CW

[Plate plinker]

Right garym1a2. A 9mm Glock is the way to go they shOot almost like a 22lr. Easy breezy.....

[Tracy]

I recommend getting her the 9mm. I used to have a very strong .40 caliber pistol (fullsize Tanfoglio CZ-75 clone) and experimented with various handloads in an attempt to develop the most effective load for field and defense. I remember reading back when the .40 was first introduced, that it would drive a 200 grain bullet 1000 fps. That would be an effective load, but if it is possible with that small case, I never found a load that would do it. In fact, the loads that drive a 180 grain bullet 1000 to 1050 fps are absolute maximum. If you don't run maximum pressures, it doesn't beat 9mm by all that much.

By contrast, from the same barrel length I can drive a 180 grain bullet 1200 fps in a .357 Magnum, or 1100 fps in a .45 Auto with heavy springs, and not get the pressure signs I get trying to push a .40 hard.
I guess it does what a lot of people want it to do, but I was underwhelmed by its performance. If I can't have .45 or 10mm in an autopistol, I would go for the cheaper ammo and more rounds in the same size gun that 9mm offers.

BTW, I would like to add that I have a .38 Special load using AL8 that drives a 195 grain boolit (#358430) 815 fps from my 2" Taurus M85. That is .40 S&W performance from a .38 snubby, and it displays no adverse pressure signs. I have fired a couple hundred of those, and the gun is none the worse for it.

[EDK]

Go find a range that rents guns and let her decide for herself. Get her good ear protection too.

I like the statistics on the 40 S&W...had S&W 610s a long time ago; never did get the 1006...back to 625s and 645s now.

Look for something she likes that has a 22 long rifle conversion unit available...or a similar sized 22 version. There ain't nothing wrong with a 22 long rifle caliber for 99.9% of what she needs a gun for. For the other .1%, a 12 gauge ain't enough!

:redneck::cbpour::2gunsfiring_v1:

[shooter93]

Ask a question like this from 20 people and you'll get 25 answers. That being said....if you're going to load for it and that's all she'll shoot then I'd opt for the 40. Understand I'm from the school that diameter is better ad slow moving large lead bullets stop things. I'd load it down till she can shoot it comfortably even if that was a decent weight bullet moving 650-700 fps and function the gun. Sound anemic?.....want shot with one?

[nicholst55]

The first thing that strikes me about most of these responses is that everyone is assuming what will or will not work for your mom. The suggestions to try comparable guns at an indoor range is an excellent one. Let her decide what she can and cannot handle rather than dictating to her! Everyone involved will be happier that way.

Just MHO, so don't anybody get their feelings bent.

[missionary5155]

Greetings
Have Glocks and a Springfield P9. Full size handguns are it. But I also have a Kel-Tec 2000 Carbine in 40 S&W. That is one nice carbine. Folds in half to fit in a briefcase. I got the Glock Mag model. Bought 6 30 round Korean mags and they work fine in the carbine. That is a whole bunch of shooting to go through and very accurate to boot. Only shoot cast in 40 so I guess it is Cheap also.
Mike in ILL.

[Blacksmith]

Your Mom needs to try it before you buy it. She wouldn't buy a car without trying it first.

Any gun is better than no gun, but a gun she is not comfortable with is one she won't practice with. A gun you can't hit the target with is only slightly better than no gun at all.

She should also consider revolvers since they are more instinctive to use and so require less practice. A .357 revolver can use .38 special practice ammo for milder recoil and ease of shooting.

Get her to go shooting with you and start her with .22 rimfire. Let her work up to larger calibers at her own pace. Nothing worse than handing someone a hot load and have them instantly develop a bad flinch and an aversion to firearms.

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

I like 40 , i find it easier to set the boolit in strait than 9mm they are just so small but 45 might be easier yet
you don't have to push the 40 to factory levels either , it makes the brass last much longer

your dad makes a point about keeping the ammo the same you won't be living at home forever and in a small gun 9mm has as much felt recoil as a 40 in a larger gun ,

what it comes down to is she needs to try it.

my wife shoots 40 , but with light ammo i made for her to shoot it, she likes it the best as it is a striker fired full sized s&w with no external safeties , it fits her hand , and works decent left handed

[monge]

I would have her shoot both, the 9mm is no dought a much softer shooter but dont under estimate its power, In fact it has much more penitration than the 40, For use in the house for self defence I would go 40 or 45 more stoping power and less penitration. I think the glock in a 40cal will be a tuff first gun to shoot well. my two cents!

[375RUGER]

First, get her to the range with you and dad. Bring all your handguns and any you can beg and borrow from friends. Let her shoot 'em all. She will like this or that when she is done.
If she can shoot one she likes from the store, even better.
And if semiauto is what she is looking at--make sure she can rack the slide. A lot of women can't and that is why the go with revolvers.

[canyon-ghost]

I've shot 9mm Winchester Range ammo through a 50 round concealment class. I had no trouble with it, just got tired of it hammering on me.

I've shot 40 S&W from a compact Glock, it was really hard for me to control. The muzzle climb in a tiny gun meant I couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with it.

The 40 didn't seem to have any more recoil, just shot wilder than I thought.

[Olevern]

By all means, try to get a Glock 40 for your mom to try before buying one. I suggest the Glock model 23 (a compromise between the full size 22 and the compacts). It is very managable.

BTW, if you decide on a 40, let me know and I will ship you out a large flat rate box of once fired empties.

[fishnbob]

I have several 9's & several .40's and I prefer the .40's. I don't see that much difference in recoil. My carry is a Kahr CW in .40. I have a Glock 22 & a S&W Sigma in .40 and I prefer to shoot the S&W as it fits my hand most comfortably. That is an issue to explore, see how good it feels in her hand before firing and can she rack the slide. The .40's are easier to reload, for me, although you must be careful about pressure. I tend to ease recoil with lighter boolits, I cast 175 gr. truncated cone & use 5.0 grs of Unique, 155 gr. JHP w/ 6.0 grs. Unique which is my defense load and I swage 165 gr JHP using 5.0 grs of Bullseye. The powder in these loads are stout but show no pressure and brass life is good. Naturally YMMV, start low & work up, Mom may like'em with just enough powder to cycle the action. Good luck.
God bless-Bob

[winelover]

Just last week, a friend and I did the range rental thing. George is wanting a pocket gun. Neither of us ever fired a 40 S&W and wanted to compare felt recoil with the 9mm.

At the range we rented four guns. Two sub-compact Glocks (9mm and 40 cal) and two compact S&W MP's, also in, those calibers. We were required to purchase factory ammo from the range. WW white box, 180 grain FMJ @ $20 / box for the 40 and 115 FMJ for the 9mm @ $14/ box.

The following is our opinions YMMV.

(1) We didn't find recoil to be that big of a deal between calibers even in the smaller Glocks. (My stainless steel J-frame in 38 Spl. twists more in my hand).

(2) All 4 guns had good DAO triggers that we would be happy with.

(3) The Glock magazines were by far easier to load! The S&W was a bugger to get the first round in!!

(4) All four shot to POA and minute of Bad Guy at 10yds. George was partial to the S&W 40 due to the longer grip. I shot the 9mm Baby Glock the best, even with the abbreviated grip.

(5) Factory ammo is expensive and 40 cal is even more so!

After returning home, I did some investigating on this forum as well as on after market barrel manufactures sites. What I learned would help me narrow down my selection.

By just pure luck, both of these guns have after market conversion barrels readily available. Not the case, for some of the other brands. However, it is my understanding that you must downsize (40 to 9 ) if you are going to go the caliber conversion route.

Even though I shot the Baby Glock in 9mm better, I would probably opt for the 40 cal version and pick up 9mm after market conversion for shooting cast.

I highly recommend renting before you buy. This particular range would apply the rental fees toward the purchase price of a firearm up to $30.

Winelover:Fire: