Okay Gentlemen what am I doing wrong here?

[moptop]

Behold, pictures of my trusted BHP barrel after 100 rounds of Lee 124grn RN tumble lubes sized to .358"(yes, it has a larger dia bore) over 3.8 grns of Bullseye. Leaded like a big dog. Cast from half WW and half stained glass window lead, most likely 60/40 lead/tin and water quenched. Are they just too soft? Too much tin maybe? I don't have a hardness tester, but I never needed one......until now I guess. It looks like they had a "skating party" in there!

Let me know what you think. Thanks

[btroj]

Could be lube issues, could be soft bullets, could be that your case is sizing down your bullets.
Too many possibilities to say it is one thing for sure.

Try changing things up. Change just one thing a a time. Try a adder bullet, keep everything else the same.m see of leading is reduced or eliminated.

That is how I always approach this type of issue.

My bet would be a smallish bullet and a lube not up to the task.

[mdi]

Wow! Is 358" larger than groove diameter, how much? I think I'd try WW alone and see what happens. Straight WW air cooled has worked for me in all my handgun reloading, from low and slow .38 Spec up to T-Rex killer .44 Magnums...

[popper]

CB too small! Stripping on rifling.

[bosterr]

I owned a Browning Hi Power in the mid 80's and the bore in mine looked EXACTLY like that! I was using a Lyman 356242 truncated cone. I was sizing at 356, wheel weights, probably air cooled, 50/50 lube, loaded with Lyman dies, not carbide, and fired pretty warm. That was almost 30 years before I joined Cast Boolits. I never cured that issue and sold it for a Colt 1911 .45, which I still have.

[Mk42gunner]

I'd try straight WW first. doing the math, if half of the alloy is 60/40 you have twenty percent tin in your boolit, a bit excessive.

Robert

[sw282]

Stained glass lead is pure lead. 60/40 would be solder used in soldering the joints. Diluted down w/solder drippings and lead scraps would yield 10% scraps being actual solder. End alloy for bullets likely no more than 3% tin. Thats how the scraps work out from a local artists' shop where l am

[truckboss]

Mine used to do that.Run some wcww and use a different lube.I use BAC now but have used 50/50 before.My boolit is as cast at .357 and hs6 for the powder.:Fire:

[fecmech]

Have you pulled a loaded bullet and checked the size after loading?

[462]

Have you pulled a loaded bullet and checked the size after loading?

Yep, that should always be the first step.

Till you measure a seated and crimped boolit, all else is mere supposition, or worse a waste of time, effort, and components.

[williamwaco]

Have you pulled a loaded bullet and checked the size after loading?

DITTO.

I bet you will find those pulled bullets are much smaller than you think.

PS:

I have a new BHP in .40 I have only put about 100 rounds through it with the lee bullet and LLA. Leading as non existent.



.

[Old Caster]

It already has been said, but I'll say it again because it matters that much. Probably the worse situation for swaging soft bullets down with the brass cartridge is 9mm. They can wind up way undersized just from loading them. One of the things we have to face is that not all sizers, size to the same size, nor do all expanders enlarge the brass to the same size and some die sets don't even have an expander but just a flare maker. It is almost guaranteed this is your problem. -- Bill --

[220swiftfn]

It already has been said, but I'll say it again because it matters that much. Probably the worse situation for swaging soft bullets down with the brass cartridge is 9mm. They can wind up way undersized just from loading them. One of the things we have to face is that not all sizers, size to the same size, nor do all expanders enlarge the brass to the same size and some die sets don't even have an expander but just a flare maker. It is almost guaranteed this is your problem. -- Bill --

Especially if you use a Lee FCD on top of it!!!!!


Dan

[geargnasher]

Most stained-glass solder I'm familiar with is 60% tin 40% lead. This is so you can solder the pure-lead pieces together without melting them, and it gives a fairly decent "mush" phase so the puddle can be worked and smoothed with an iron. Different sorts of work may require different alloys.

That being said, I'm piling on with everyone who said you have WAY too much tin for the mix, even if it had no antimony in it, and also piling on with those who said to measure a pulled boolit, because the bore leading shows every sign of one big thing: Massive gas leak leading on the trailing edge of the lands.

The other major malfunction there is using Bullseye. First, you're using a ridiculously high-tin alloy and tin gets wonky when you put the pressure to and and rub it against steel really fast, and second, you're jamming it into the rifling so fast with a hot load of BE that it has to practically be ripping the boolit in two as it slams into and skids through the first part of the rifling. That combination of gooey alloy, probably being swaged to .356" by the hard, tough, 9mm brass, slamming into the rifling after being punted by a hot charge of super-fast powder, all is a recipe for massive skidding and gas leaks which will result in the bore growing lead whiskers such as you have there.

Slower powder, an alloy with less tin than antimony, and making sure the cases aren't swaging the boolits undersized when you seat them will likely solve your problem.

Gear

[Bret4207]

1- Check for crimping die "squish" on some pulled boolits.
2- use a more suitable (slower) powder.
3- Understand that Quenched boolits take about 3 weeks after quenching to reach their full Bhn.
4- Consider something other than a tumble lube design in high pressure rounds.
5- FIT, FIT, FIT.

BTQ- The leading will come right out with 4/0 steel wool on a brush.

[44man]

I side with Gear and Bret!
Once they respond, nothing more needs said!

[blackthorn]

Am I missing something here? The OP said "Cast from half WW and half stained glass window lead, most likely 60/40 lead/tin and water quenched." SO--to me, if he used half WW (WW= wheel weights right?) and half lead window "came" (which is pure lead) there is NO way he has an alloy made up of 60% lead and 40% tin. If that IS his alloy, the only tin present is what was in the WW originally!

[popper]

Window lead is pure. Solder used for window glass is 60/40. Why WD alloy with NO antimony?

[Larry Gibson]

moptop

Suggest you add 2% tin to the WWs (based on the WWs) before adding the lead. As also mentioned with an alloy that soft the cases are also probably sizing those soft bullets down. A .358 expander would be in order for such softer bullets.

What Lube?

Larry Gibson

[runfiverun]

i was just gonna blame it on the lee t/l design.
this boolit has to be the number one thread starter on this board.
make them harder/bigger,and change to a slower powder then when that don't work buy the lee 125 gr round flat point boolit for the 38 revolver with the regular lube groove [seat them deep cause you'll have to for feeding etc.] and see the difference.

[leadman]

I had great success with the Lee TC boolit. WW alloy water dropped, sized to .358" for a Ruger with .3575" bore. Carnuba Red for lube.

Use straight WW and water drop it. When loading make sure you only take the flare out, then pull a boolit and make sure the case has not sized it down. I used Unique for the powder.
The solder is only at the joints of the designs. If you are just using the scraps they are pure lead.

[mdi]

Especially if you use a Lee FCD on top of it!!!!!


Dan

Amen!

[MBuechle]

i was just gonna blame it on the lee t/l design.


I'll second that. Just got back from the range this morning. I've been fighting leading in my PT92 since I started casting for it. This morning I shot some boolits from my new MP 358-125 mold, what a difference! Same Alox/JPW lube, softer alloy and virtually no lead. What lead I did get was at the end of the bore, looks like lube failure. Alloy was 50/50 WW/Pb with 3% Sn added. The boolit was cast as a pentagonal hollow point and dropped @ 128gr. Used PowerPistol and 800X. There was no leading with the 800X but the cases were sooty, like pressure was on the low side, Vel. was 980. The PP load clocked at 1104 and grouped 1.6" @ 25 yds. The hollow point fragged in a milk jug full of water. Then I shot some Lee 124TL's I had left, 50/50 WW/Pb water dropped and the same Alox/JPW tumble lube, in front of 4.4gr. HP-38 @ 1097. What a mess! After 15 shots it looked like the OP's minus the hanging tinsle. So I'd try a conventional lube groove design and a better lube. I'm going to try pan lubing with NRA lube next.

[moptop]

Wow everybody! Thanks so much for all the replys and help. This is why I like this forum so much.



Okay, I took the advise and started back at square one. First off I pulled a boolet and checked the diameter and yes, it was swaged down from .358" to .356". The barrel on this BHP slugged out at .3574" and that's the reason behind the .358" sized boolets. So I readjusted my die as to just remove the bell and not squish the heck of it and yet still pass the "plunk" test. I also loaded up 10 rounds using 5.7 grns of HS-6 as a starting point and checked them for proper cycling operation. The worked just fine. You might be right, slower could be better. I've used HS-6 under jacketed HP's and it worked great but for some reason I just stopped using it but I can't remember why at this point.

I ran out of time this evening so I'll load up 50 or so and run them and check for leading. If it's still and issue then sometime this weekend I'll cast up the same boolet using straight W/W with a touch of tin and see how that changes things. If I can't get things figured out I may have to take the advise of trying a different style boolet. I like the T/L style because I don't have a luber-sizer and would have to pan lube instead. I have great luck with the T/L styles in .38spl and .45ACP and was hoping for the same in 9mm.


So 2 problems addressed and 48 more to go... (insert smiley face here!!!...the one with his tounge hanging out!)

Thanks again everyone for all of your help on this. I appreciate you sharing your knowledge.

[geargnasher]

I think you have a good plan, although I'm unconvinced you fixed your swaging problem with a crimp adjustment unless you were using a really heavy taper crimp before. The principle issue that most folks have with shooting cast boolits in 9mm and .40 is that they use boolits too soft and expanders too small and too short. Factory expanders for most 9mm dies that I've seen are about half the length of the boolit long and only measure about .352-4" or so, when you need them to measure almost as large as the boolit you seat into them, ESPECIALLY with the weak microband boolits. The result is the boolit drive bands get swaged down by the brass when the boolit is seated, not when it's crimped. Be certain you have this problem fixed (if you have one handy, an RCBS .357 Mag/.38 Special expander can be adjusted to expand the brass the correct depth, then the bellmouth can be applied with your current 9mm expanding die) or you'll be cleaning more lead out.

Gear

[462]

Pull a boolit from one of your latest loads and measure it, before you go to the range and possibly waste more time and components. Though you may have the crimp adjusted correctly, what Gear said could still be in play, and the seater die could be putting the squeeze on the boolit, too boot.

[Bret4207]

Gear and 462 are giving good advice, check the boolits again. The 9mm is a problem for cast as far as dies go. Nobody makes "Cowboy Dies" in 9mm. Everyone, even the dies makers, seem to think all 9mm run .354-.355 groove diameter. And they all cut the expanders for 124 gr jacketed. As was suggested, mixing some 38 Special parts into the game may help.

So were your quenched boolits 3 weeks or more old? I'm no fan of rock hard cast boolits, but if you're going to the trouble of quenching, you need to at least wait for them to harden up.

[milprileb]

I have been in this 9mm lead bullet drama for almost a year now. I followed the advice stated by members here and cured a ton of issues but one solution not stated in this thread is a Lyman M Die in .358. Its been alluded to but not outright said: GET A M DIE.

I did that, zero issues with my bullets getting swaged down now.

Warning: your 9mm issues may be one or many things , so change one variable at a time or you will have chaos in finding the issues and solutions.

I had all sorts of leading issues using BE powder and dropped it.

[MBTcustom]

I agree with what has been said about your boolits being sized down. I knew it when I saw your pictures.
However, I think you are assuming that the crimp is what is causing your undersized boolits, and I have to tell you that that is very unlikely. You need to realize that if the ID of your brass is any smaller than .003 from the diameter of you boolit, then it is strong enough to swage down your boolits all by itself.
I'll tell you a little secret, everybody says that harder boolits don't lead so bad right? Why do you think that is? Most folks assume that its because it seals the bore better, but that is not the case. It just survives the vicious squishing that the brass tries to put on it! If you can get a properly sized boolit to come out of your brass, your leading problems will be almost non-existent.
Go and measure the ID of your brass necks and tell me what I already know. OK, so they are too small. You can fix this several ways:
1. (the Hulk smash method) Make your boolits harder then a hotdamn hangover so that they will do victorious battle with the necks of your brass and survive the squish that those short stout cases apply to their residents. Grrrrrr!
2. (the engineers way) buy a custom barrel that has a groove diameter of .354. Its going to cost a fortune, but if you can get your employer to pay for it........(Sorry, I'm a machinist so digs happen:twisted:)
3. (the knowledgeable casters way) have a expander made, or buy a Lyman "M" die that will open your brass up to .356-.3565 and kill the problem at its source (ie undersized brass).

[guidogoose]

Behold, pictures of my trusted BHP barrel after 100 rounds of Lee 124grn RN tumble lubes sized to .358"(yes, it has a larger dia bore) over 3.8 grns of Bullseye. Leaded like a big dog. Cast from half WW and half stained glass window lead, most likely 60/40 lead/tin and water quenched. Are they just too soft? Too much tin maybe? I don't have a hardness tester, but I never needed one......until now I guess. It looks like they had a "skating party" in there!

Let me know what you think. Thanks

Sorry you are having problems. I am using the Lee 125gr round nose with lube groove. Alloy is a hardball alloy (92% PB, 6% Sb 2% Sn). Lube is either LLA/ JPW or beeswax/white lithium grease/ caranuba wax. Bullet sized to 356. I use only Lee dies. No leading ever in my Sig P229. I pulled a bullet, as someone here suggested, and its .356 to .3565 and I use the FCD. Powder used is HS6.

[Moonie]

Sorry you are having problems. I am using the Lee 125gr round nose with lube groove. Alloy is a hardball alloy (92% PB, 6% Sb 2% Sn). Lube is either LLA/ JPW or beeswax/white lithium grease/ caranuba wax. Bullet sized to 356. I use only Lee dies. No leading ever in my Sig P229. I pulled a bullet, as someone here suggested, and its .356 to .3565 and I use the FCD. Powder used is HS6.

Just goes to show you, sometimes you can break all the rules and things still work...

[guidogoose]

Just goes to show you, sometimes you can break all the rules and things still work...

I broke the rules??

[EMC45]

I size my 9MMs at .358 for my HP as well. I shoot a Lee 120 TC with standard lube groove. I would try straight clip on WWs. Lube with Alox, let dry, size, light tumble lube again and then seat it over 3.5gr. Bullseye. Make sure they pass the chamber test (fall in/fall out). If you are using the FCD by Lee STOP.

[moptop]

However, I think you are assuming that the crimp is what is causing your undersized boolits, and I have to tell you that that is very unlikely. You need to realize that if the ID of your brass is any smaller than .003 from the diameter of you boolit, then it is strong enough to swage down your boolits all by itself.



(if you have one handy, an RCBS .357 Mag/.38 Special expander can be adjusted to expand the brass the correct depth, then the bellmouth can be applied with your current 9mm expanding die)


GET A M DIE. I did that, zero issues with my bullets getting swaged down now.

Once again I feel I'm being lead in the right direction. Yes, that makes a lot of sense and yes I have an RCBS .357 die set. I'm having a hard time trying wrapping my brain around using a sizer for a different caliber to correct a problem when in fact if you think about it they are actually only a few thousanths different in diameter.

Please tell if this could be true, could the case and/or crimp die swaging the bullet down could also cause case to bulging toward the bottom to the point were it will only go in half way? If so, that would explain another prolem I've been dealing with.


So were your quenched boolits 3 weeks or more old? I'm no fan of rock hard cast boolits, but if you're going to the trouble of quenching, you need to at least wait for them to harden up.

As a matter of fact, no, they were not at least 3 weeks old. 48 hours at the most, but I did know that they would not be at their maxium hardness. Yeah, I rushed these a little.


Warning: your 9mm issues may be one or many things , so change one variable at a time or you will have chaos in finding the issues and solutions.

Yes, I'm aware of this. One change at a time and observe the results before going on to something else.

All of this is sage advise to say the least. This is a lot of info to take in at one time. I just need to take it one step at a time in figuring this out.
Thanks again for all the help.

[462]

In the context of having the correct boolit fit, "a few thousanths" is very critical. Start with a boolit that is the correct size for your barrel's grooves, and make sure that it is not getting squeezed down during some part of the reloading process.

Many casters and reloaders assume that their dies are proper for use with cast boolits, either not knowing or forgetting that they are manufactured to jacketed bullet dimensions. Therefore, in order for us to obtain the results we want, it bocomes necessary for us to experiment, make modifications to and mix-and-match our die brands, change our reloading practices, and learn patience. As MtGun44 says, "If it was easy, anyone could do it."

[Hamish]

"I'm having a hard time trying wrapping my brain around using a sizer for a different caliber to correct a problem when in fact if you think about it they are actually only a few thousanths different in diameter. "

For things to function well, the OD of the projectile needs to be larger than the ID of the barrel. Think of it this way, as the boolit leaves the neck it needs to be large enough to actually be swaged down into the barrel to seal the barrel.

What is the difference historically between American .30 caliber barrels and the rest of the world? .308 versus anything running from .308 to .317. Reloaders here learn about mixing and matching expanders and the like every day on this site, so don't feel like the Lone Ranger. (Boy, and how!)

Those few thousandths are crucial, and must be your first consideration.

"case and/or crimp die swaging the bullet down could also cause case to bulging toward the bottom to the point were it will only go in half way?"

Yup. Way back when I somehow got a .45 acp die set wrong and they would seemingly chamber, but would not quite go into battery. Try not to take any step in the process for granted.

Good luck, previous posts have given you stellar advise.

[popper]

bulging toward the bottom As will over crimping. OP says he's using 50/50 WD WW/Pb. Is that clip on or stick on? As the case is sizing the CB, I suspect stick on which makes it almost pure Pb. Try unsized case, larger expander or harder alloy. So far I've gotten my 40SW to shoot pure with as cast, unsized case - no leading. Size the CB or case and leading is bad.

[Moonie]

I broke the rules??

It was really more of a joke, but normally 9mm barrels are larger than .356, you can sometimes get around this issue in other calibers by using a softer alloy. So technically by others observations by using a boolit that is .356 and a hard alloy you shouldn't have had such good luck.

Each firearm is a rule unto itself, doesn't matter what others have observed, what matters is what works in that firearm.

:bigsmyl2:

[guidogoose]

It was really more of a joke, but normally 9mm barrels are larger than .356, you can sometimes get around this issue in other calibers by using a softer alloy. So technically by others observations by using a boolit that is .356 and a hard alloy you shouldn't have had such good luck.

Each firearm is a rule unto itself, doesn't matter what others have observed, what matters is what works in that firearm.

:bigsmyl2:??

Oh, thought maybe i could skip a step or something. Someone said not to use the FCD. Can that be ommitted with cast boolits ?I load on a single stage so if i can skip a step...... sign me up!! Hard alloy? I thought i was doing good compared to the straight linotype i was using. Didnt lead with that either. Guess I got lucky.

[slinger35]

Is your barrel throated for cast bullets ?

[MikeS]

I first started casting & reloading the 9mm round a few weeks ago. Before I started I read all I could specifically about the 9 here, so I was well prepared. I bought a Lyman set of dies, and only used the resizing die, and the seating die. I also bought a separate taper crimp die (I bought a Lee, but NOT the FCD, just a taper crimp die, it was less than $10.00). For expanding the brass I used an expander designed for the 38 Special round which expanded the brass much more than I imagine it would have been expanded by the expander in the 9mm die set I bought. For a boolit I got the Lee 105gr SWC that's really designed for 38Spec/357Mag but also works well in the 9mm. I cast my boolits out of Lyman #2 alloy (90/5/5). Besides the boolits being relatively hard (around 15BHN) I think the Lee 105gr boolit is short enough so all of it is above where the brass starts to get thicker, so the brass had less chance of swaging my boolits smaller.

The first time I took my 9mm cast boolit reloads to the range I really thought I was going to be in for lots of barrel scrubbing when I got home, but I was really surprised that when I took out the barrel there wasn't a bit of lead in it at all! What all this means is that it's totally possible to get a leading free load from a 9mm. I just happened to get really lucky that I got it on my first attempt! I almost forgot, I loaded those rounds with 5gr of HP-38 (AKA W231) which isn't a light load, but isn't a max load either. Don't get discouraged if it doesn't workout the first time out, you will find the right load that will do what you want it to!

[snuffy]

After reading this entire thread yesterday morn., I took a look at my set-up on the dillon 650. I had achieved marginal success by going with a very hard boolit, (water quenched range lead, 18 BHN), having had leading problems with much softer boolits, along with no accuracy.

Goodsteel's comment about the harder boolit works because it resists being sized by the brass is exactly what was/is happening with my set-up. How do I know? By pulling one of those hard boolits that had been loaded by my machine. Even though very hard, the boolit sized at .358, was reduced to .355 by the very undersized brass. Apparently this was large enough to run in my CZ 75B, with no leading and acceptable accuracy. They also worked in my son's CZ P-01, and my Ruger LC-9.

I took the powder die apart to get at the powder funnel, dillons name for the powder-through-expander tube. The expander portion is only about ½ inch long before going into the belling taper. It mics out at .353! The resulting inside diameter of an expanded case was .354!

I have a conversion kit for 38/.357. I miced the powder funnel for that, it's a lot shorter, and miced at .355. The expander portion is also much longer, made for the longer .357 bullets.

Dillon never meant for this to be used for 9mm.!?[smilie=1: Because it's shorter, the powder die body bottoms out before the expander goes into the case far enough to bell the case mouth. What I needed was a spacer between the bottom of the powder measure tube, and the top of the powder funnel.

What I came up with was the base of a junk 500 S&W case that puts .210 between the powder drop tube and the powder funnel. It worked! Now, running the case through the sizer, then the primer/powder/expand operation at station 2, gave me an inside diameter of .355 at the case mouth. Seating and crimping,(lee FCD), gave me a pulled boolit diameter of .3565! An improvement to be sure, .0015 increase.

I should have stopped there, but the excessive sizing of the brass bothered me. The lee sizer was reducing the inside diameter too much. I decided to back off the sizer to see if it would only size the very end of the case mouth. I had to lower the deprimer punch, but it worked!

I also eliminated the lee FCD, even though it was NOT post sizing, just taper crimping. I had to drop the seater die down to crimp, not a problem. But that opens up a station, so I ordered a RCBS expander die and a .357 button. I may put that in station two, run the powder drop in station 3. Then move the powder sensor to #4, seat/crimp in #5.

Proof of what I did was an improvement will be in a range session next week. Maybe I'm chasing ghosts, but it should result in me being able to shoot air cooled range lead @ 12 BHN, with good accuracy. Another thought provoking thread on cast boolits forum. You can learn, or be stubborn that you're doing things right.

[geargnasher]

Snuffy, be careful expanding those cases too deeply. Ideally I've found that if you can expand the case to .002" under boolit diameter and only just a hint deeper than the boolit will be seated, you have a pretty good setup. Otherwise, if the case tension isn't enough the boolits can work back in the cases in the magazine under recoil and cause huge pressure excursions when chambered and fired.

It's really nice to have the expander leave a sort of "step" in the case that acts like a cannelure to make a positive stop for the boolit.

Like you said, the case needs to be expanded DEEPLY enough to not squish the boolit base, and this is where many expander spuds fall way short of the mark. Here's an RCBS expander spud for .357 Magnum that does the trick quite nicely:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=24608&d=1282019955

Gear

[snuffy]

Like you said, the case needs to be expanded DEEPLY enough to not squish the boolit base, and this is where many expander spuds fall way short of the mark. Here's an RCBS expander spud for .357 Magnum that does the trick quite nicely:

Gear, that RCBS expander looks a lot like the spud for the expander die I just ordered from Grafs. It also resembles the dillon expander.

I AM concerned about case neck tension, I will run a few with the current set-up, then do a bench press test, to see if I can move/seat it further with hand pressure. I may lower the sizer a bit more, just to be safe. I know that crimp should never be relied on to hold boolits.

I may run the sizer die back where it belongs, then just rely on the expander to give me the fit I need. I'm looking for around .356 inside dia of the case for the .358 boolits. Those are the lee 356-125-2R.

http://photos.imageevent.com/jptowns/bullets/websize/IMG_0338.JPG

[guidogoose]

I first started casting & reloading the 9mm round a few weeks ago. Before I started I read all I could specifically about the 9 here, so I was well prepared. I bought a Lyman set of dies, and only used the resizing die, and the seating die. I also bought a separate taper crimp die (I bought a Lee, but NOT the FCD, just a taper crimp die, it was less than $10.00). For expanding the brass I used an expander designed for the 38 Special round which expanded the brass much more than I imagine it would have been expanded by the expander in the 9mm die set I bought. For a boolit I got the Lee 105gr SWC that's really designed for 38Spec/357Mag but also works well in the 9mm. I cast my boolits out of Lyman #2 alloy (90/5/5). Besides the boolits being relatively hard (around 15BHN) I think the Lee 105gr boolit is short enough so all of it is above where the brass starts to get thicker, so the brass had less chance of swaging my boolits smaller.

The first time I took my 9mm cast boolit reloads to the range I really thought I was going to be in for lots of barrel scrubbing when I got home, but I was really surprised that when I took out the barrel there wasn't a bit of lead in it at all! What all this means is that it's totally possible to get a leading free load from a 9mm. I just happened to get really lucky that I got it on my first attempt! I almost forgot, I loaded those rounds with 5gr of HP-38 (AKA W231) which isn't a light load, but isn't a max load either. Don't get discouraged if it doesn't workout the first time out, you will find the right load that will do what you want it to!

I second your thoughts sir. I have never had a problem with harder alloys. That's all I have used from the beginning. I hate to admit it but if my barrel looked like the original poster's barrel, my casting career would most likely have come to halt. I have even run straight linotype in 9mm with zero leading. Until I joined this forum, I thought leading was a myth. I have never experienced it. I bought a tube of bore paste when I first started casting and it still sealed in the packaging.

[Harter66]

I use RCBS 3 die pistol sets my 9mm Luger expander die came w/the 38/358 spud in it . For a while I even gave up on sizing cases at all. Much later I found that my leading was never leading , it was copper bonding. Once I got all of the jaxets out no more leading except when I run the gun hot like strings of 3-5 magazines. Even then it mostly just brushes out.

Recipie,
Lee 356-124 TLTC as cast @.359+
Unique 3.8
Darrs lube tweeked w/added STP.
Seated over the front band for consistant battery
Little to no crimp

Fired brass is .381+ finished loaded is .380 in WIN brass w/CCI SM pistol primers. The bore is .357 pulled boolits are .358 + . I think the expander plug is the salvation for me.

[Recluse]

1- Check for crimping die "squish" on some pulled boolits.
2- use a more suitable (slower) powder.
3- Understand that Quenched boolits take about 3 weeks after quenching to reach their full Bhn.
4- Consider something other than a tumble lube design in high pressure rounds.
5- FIT, FIT, FIT.

BTQ- The leading will come right out with 4/0 steel wool on a brush.

Inarguable, proven words to cast, shoot and live by.


i was just gonna blame it on the lee t/l design.
this boolit has to be the number one thread starter on this board.

As soon as I saw "Lee TL124RN". . .

Moptop, I have that mold and was not happy with the results I was getting. So. . .

I lapped it out to where it drops just a mic'd skosh over .358. My rational is that I can always size boolits down easier than I can size them up.

I water quench everything 9mm simply because of the pressures and abuse involved in that cartridge.

My lube is 45/45/10, lube, size, lube, load and I've had no leading--accuracy was my elusive frustration.

Combination for me is hard boolit, ample lube, slow powder and snug fit.

Hmmm. Sounds exactly like what Bret wrote. . .

We repeat ourselves and each other a lot here. :)

:coffee:

P.S. You can tumble lube ANY boolit design, by the way. I only tumble-lube my .45 caliber stuff and only one of the boolits is a TL design. I also tumble-lube my .358 SWC 105 boolits and I often tumble-lube my .358 WC boolits.

[moptop]

--accuracy was my elusive frustration.

Recluse, I had accuracy problems as well untill I started measuring all, ALL, my cases. There is a great article by Jim Taylor about 9mm case lenght.

here's the link: http://www.leverguns.com/articles/taylor/9mm_reloading.htm

Anything that doesn't measure at least .748" I trash (recycle). Once I started that all of my accuracy issues disappeared. I proved it to my brother and myself by doing the same procedure by loading 10 rounds each in 5 different case lenghts from .747"-.750". My BHP group got very tight with the .749". Headspacing is a big issue with 9mm. If it's not long enough the case will headspace on the extractor and instead of on the chamber rim and that' when accuracy goes to Gehenna real quick.

I "Beagled" the blocks on my TL124 mold so it drops at a bit over .358" and them push thru size them.

I was able to stop by Graf's today and bought a 38P "M" die but I got home late this evening so I try it out possible tomorrow.......provided I get home early enough.


The bore is .357 pulled boolits are .358 + . I think the expander plug is the salvation for me.

Harter66, I agree with you. I'm just hoping there is enough "salvation" to go around!

Thanks again for all the guidance.

[Frozone]

I had Chris of LatheSmith turn me a custom powder through expander for my LEE die set.
Solved all the problems.

and my oh my, the LEE FDC was NOT the problem, imagine that!!!!

[guidogoose]

I size my 9MMs at .358 for my HP as well. I shoot a Lee 120 TC with standard lube groove. I would try straight clip on WWs. Lube with Alox, let dry, size, light tumble lube again and then seat it over 3.5gr. Bullseye. Make sure they pass the chamber test (fall in/fall out). If you are using the FCD by Lee STOP.

I tried some non crimped bullets today along with the crimped. Didn't noticed a difference which is great! Now I can skip a die on my single stage press. Sweet!