1861 Springfiled Musket

[Phillip]

When I was up in Cross Fork for snake hunt, I came across a 1861 Springfield musket and made a trade for it. Other then some one at some point cut the barrel down 8", it is pretty good shape.

From what I have read on the stock load, they say 60gr of FFg or 40gr of FFFg with the 500gr minie ball that they used in the Civil war.

What other loads have you guys shot that worked out well for you?

What Minie Ball mold and lube would you guys recommend for starting out with a musket like this?

[gnoahhh]

I always used 60gr. FFFg and whichever Miniè worked best. Truth be told, I use FFFg for everything.

Everything checks out safety-wise?

[405]

Nice musket!- even though someone turned it into a "tanker model", that shouldn't hurt the shooting or functioning. I love 'em. It should shoot just about any normal minie with the regulation load of 60 grs. I have three diameter sizes of 58 cal minie molds. I just pick the one that isn't too loose when seating the minie in a clean bore. Best bang for the buck would be one of the Lee Improved minie molds. As far as inspection and cleaning? I'd take the lock off (2 screws), take the tang screw out and take the barrel bands off. Remove the barrel. Inspect the breech area and the breech plug fit. Then give the bore a GOOD cleaning. Most I've seen even with shiny bores will have some roughness down near the breech end. Even serious owners sometimes neglect that part of the bore because they never take the barrel out to completely flush and rinse clean them. Next it wouldn't hurt to change out the nipple. For originals, Track of the Wolf sells a SS musket size replacement nipple especially for the original Springfields... about 3.99 IIRC.

For the 58 cal musket minies at the casual range, I load about 50 gr FF or 45gr FFF, dab some Crisco in the base, seat on powder, cap and fire. I swab every shot for accuracy testing, about every 3-4 shots for sustained fire. At 50 yards use a big sighter bull or a big black ring bull maybe 12" diameter. You may need that for a repeatable sight picture depending on where POI is at the minimum sight height. I like a 6 O'clock hold on a large bull for these type guns/sights.

BTW, that looks to be a correct type sling. If old original it is fairly valuable. If it's a repro then even those are 15-25 bucks. That unique musket sling design is a very practical one.


Oh and almost forgot. The photos are not clear enough to be certain but that lock, hammer and bolster are consistent with a M1863 Rifle Musket- not a M1861. And I can't really see the barrel bands but the M61 bands will be flat with a band spring. The M63 T-1 will have have convex (rounded top) bands with screw tensioners and no springs while the M63 T-2s have the convex bands with the retainer springs. Also, some number of those were spuriously cut down to 33" barrels then marketed as "Artillery Models". There is great doubt among serious collectors about the history of those. According to Flaydermann's, a single entry in the Springfield archives about "shortened muskets" has caused and still does all the confusion about the short rifle or "Artillery Model". Those sold as such may be nothing more than marketing fakes. No such thing was listed in regular production records at Springfield. However so there is no confusion, the Brits did produce a number of short Artillery model Enfields and exported some to both sides in the Civil War. Just some history background info. Of course none of this will have any affect on the shooting and use of the shortened musket. Enjoy and let us know how it shoots.

[Phillip]

gnoahhh, every thing looks good on the out side, but I still need to brake it down and do a wipe down and inspection for cracks and such.

405, thanks for the information, it helps in deciphering what I have. The lock plate is stamped 1861 and the barrel is stamped 1862. the bands are M63 T1 convex with the screw and no spring. The sling might be an old 70's remake, since there is a tag taped to the trigger guard that has "N-SSA 1976" printed on it in red-white-blue. (Any one know anything about it?)

The dealer I picket up from said the same thing about it being the artillery version, but he said he doubts that Springfield ever made a model. He said that it is more likely that they were modded by the south for reuse by there troops or by our own to keep them going. Either way it was a break for me, I got it cheep and plain to shoot it allot, and maybe hunt deer with it if it shoots well.

[405]

Ok thanks, got a little clearer picture. If the lock is dated 1861 and marked Springfield (or one of the several contractors for the M1861) it is the lock off a M1861 that has had a M1863 hammer put on it. A M1861 Springfield barrel will have a rounded bolster with a clean out screw. If it is a special contract M1861 barrel dated 1862 then likely made by one of the contractors and would have the flat bolster with the eagle stamp (as yours has and about identical to the M1863 bolster).

Like I said, none of this matters much because if it shoots well it will make for a very fine target and hunting long gun. Just some info about the history of these that may shed some light and add some interest. If it is one of those spurious 33" barreled "Artillery Models" from the past then that in itself could add some value- believe it or not. If simply done to "sporterize" a long musket into a shorter, more user friendly gun by a local gunsmith, then the value added would be neutral. You can do a web search and find some interesting things about Bannerman's Arsenal. I wouldn't doubt a Bannerman connection to this musket but there's no way to tell for sure. And absolutely, if it were a Confederate capture and re-configured then it would add a huge amount to its value- but again likely no way to tell.

The N-SSA tag makes perfect sense. North-South Skirmish Association. 1976 date would also make sense being the bi-centennial year with lots of various re-enactments going on and lots of interest generated.

[Trapdoor]

NSSA, North South Skirmish Association. That musket was probably used and approved for their skirmishes. 1976 dates it's use or most likely inspection and approval date. I'm a former member but no longer participate since moving to Florida. They shoot for competition just about anything that was used in the Civil War. Muskets, carbines, lever guns, cannon, mortar, revolver, etc. You might be interested in checking out their website
www.n-ssa.org/

[59sharps]

When I was up in Cross Fork for snake hunt, I came across a 1861 Springfield musket and made a trade for it. Other then some one at some point cut the barrel down 8", it is pretty good shape.

From what I have read on the stock load, they say 60gr of FFg or 40gr of FFFg with the 500gr minie ball that they used in the Civil war.

What other loads have you guys shot that worked out well for you?

What Minie Ball mold and lube would you guys recommend for starting out with a musket like this?

try 42 grs 3ffg w/ a hodges minnie dia .002 under bore dia..
check the N-SSA sight for shoot schedules.

[gnoahhh]

I have the thought that a lot of Springfields were cut down over the years to eradicate badly worn sections of rifling toward the muzzle, due to the deletrious effects of sloppily used steel rammers. I have seen them with full length barrels that would have benefited from cutting down.

Light loads are certainly ok, but its been my experience that these things don't start to sing until you get up to 60 grs. Again, which Miniè you choose will determine that, by and large.

[Hellgate]

If that is an original, I wouldn't go knocking it apart, pulling it out of the stock, etc. and chance chipping the wood, buggering the metal, screws, etc and thereby ruining some of its condition/collector value. That's a nice rifle and could be test fired by putting it in an old tire behind the corner of a barn ala Dixie Gun Works recommendation.

[405]

Well, all the parts appear to be original. However it is a composite gun. So it has likely been apart many times since the Civil War. Once to scavenge parts from more than one gun and chop the barrel. Then probably many times to clean. Careful dis-assembly then re-assembly for cleaning and inspection will not hurt this one and should be done anyway for regular maintenance.

[Phillip]

405, you are right on the barrel, I don't know why I wrote 1862. The barrel is marked 1863 with an VP and eagle stamp, with no other markings.

I forgot about Bannerman's Arsenal, they may have been the ones to mod this rifle if it was originally bought from them them at some point. Back then, I don't think anyone kept good records of what they did, so it is just a guess at best.

I did take it apart and checked every thing over. The barrel is straight and clean with some light surface rust and the nipple/flash holes are clear (Can blow air through them). The lock looked like some one had replaced the springs at some point and cleaned it as well. Over all, the rifle is really good shape and in good working order. I also took a trip out to Cabelas and picked up a caps, FFG (Pyrodex..Eh), and 2 boxes of 460gr minnies. Should be a fun week end :Fire:

Trapdoor and 59sharps, thanks for the link and info. I just might see about shooting some comps with it.

[405]

Sounds good. Keep us posted about how it shoots. May have to play around a little with the load combination and cleaning/swabbing frequency, but if it has a decent bore it should shoot fine. If it seems to blow back an excess of gas, debris and smoke through the nipple- just change out the nipple to one like Track of the Wolf offers that has the small flash channel.

[bob208]

there were some were cut back to salvage battle damaged guns. both north and south did it.

[Phillip]

I had a good shoot with it on Saturday, I put 20 minies through it, and it was a tack driver at 25 yards.

The only issue I had with the musket, was the nipple was rounded over and caused the cap to split, so I will need to get a new one for the No11 caps when I run through the large ones. I will also need to get a mold now that I know it shoots so well for 140 year old rifle. :drinks:

The targets are; The first is 10 shots with no cleaning between shots. Second is 10 shots with cleaning in between each shot.

[405]

Now we're talking!!!
I had a feeling. With a decent bore and a sane minie load it would shoot fine. I find that the older I get the more I appreciate old guns. It becomes a way to live, first hand, a very tiny part of history and actually see how these things worked.

Now I'm energized. Got to get my P1853 carbine, aka "Shorty" and M1841 Mississippi out to let a few fly.

[gnoahhh]

Yay, another one still going strong. Interesting comment earlier about the innards of the lock looking like replacements. Certainly could've been, but I've been inside of a bunch of nasty looking Civil War (and earlier) locks and am amazed at how many of them were pristine inside.

[carbine]

The only issue I had with the musket, was the nipple was rounded over and caused the cap to split, so I will need to get a new one for the No11 caps when I run through the large ones. I will also

I would replace the nipple with a correct musket nipple. Available from S&S, Lodgewood etc. Check out the N-SSA.org for sutler links. My $0.02

[gnoahhh]

Yeah, stick with musket caps.