Lee Soup Can Mold

[Swamprat1052]

Hey guys, I havent gotten on the site much lately, had some puter problems. I bought one of the Lee 309-113-F molds for my 30-30 the other day just to have something to plink around with and also thought it might be a pretty good coyote bullet at close range.

How far do I seat that bullet. It has 2 lube grooves and a little indention on the nose. Do I use one of the grooves to crimp into or take it all the way out to that indention. I know I need to crimp it for use in a tubular magazine but unless I use a lube groove I dont have a cantelure to criimp into. I thought about using a Lee Factory Crimp Die. What is the best thing to do with this bullet?

Thanks
Swamprat

[Ricochet]

Well, the length you seat to depends on what you're using it for.

In your .30-30 you probably want it to be able to function through the action. I think the Lee Factory Crimp Die will be very helpful there as it lets you crimp anywhere, no crimp groove needed. Crimping deeply into a cast boolit isn't always a good thing for accuracy, but it will keep the boolit from getting pushed into the case as the cartridge works through the action. (And from the mighty recoil of those soupcan plinking loads, with the others bouncing around in the tubular magazine.) :mrgreen:

Two things to determine are the length at which the boolit touches the rifling, and the length that will work through the action. Since the soupcan's not shaped too differently from the standard round and flat nosed .30-30 bullets, you're probably OK at usual maximum overall length so far as feeding goes, but that's subject to trial. For checking the seating to touch rifling, the easy way is: Take a rod just a little smaller than the bore. Close the breech. Run the rod down from the muzzle so it stops against the breech face. Mark the rod with a piece of tape right against the muzzle. Open the breech. Stand the rifle muzzle down. Drop a new, clean, sized soupcan boolit in from the breech so it stops lightly stuck in the back of the rifling. Lay the rifle on its side. Take the rod again and very carefully ease it in from the muzzle till it touches the boolit. Mark it again with tape at the muzzle. The distance between the bottom edges of the two pieces of tape is the cartridge overall length at which the boolit makes firm contact with the rifling origin. That, or just slightly less, is likely to be a good length to load to if it will feed through your action. (If, of course, it's not so long that the boolit would be out of the case.) :mrgreen:

[versifier]

If you have the right combination of alloy/powder/lube, and decent sights, it is a 200yd varmint bullet in the .30-30. It will feed through a win94 factory crimped on the driving band between the two lube grooves, and may even work crimped into the second lube groove. With a single shot, sometimes you can get away with using the second driving band. It all depends on your rifle. The greater the OAL you can get away with, the better the accuracy. Depending on if the barrel leads up or not, you might want to use a harder alloy for the faster loads at longer ranges, but plain ACWW is fine for anything within 100yds, including the occasional deer with very careful shot placement. RE7 has given me great results.

[Newtire]

Hey Swamp,
I loaded that boolit for my Winchester '94 angle eject and another old 1953 vintage '94. I seated them out to 2.315" and used 7.5gr. Unique or 10.5 gr. Blue Dot for a killer 50 yd. plinker load. Like Ricochet says, get it to touch the rifling and still feed. That's what it did at that length in those 2 rifles. A great boolit!

[Ricochet]

There you go, good specific data from folks who've been there and done that with that boolit in that cartridge. I'm telling you how I come up with an overall length for boolits in general. Useful tool to have in your belt.
:-D

[Swamprat1052]

Thanks guys. I have always used a Stoney Point OAL Gauge on my bolt guns but dont think it will work on my Model 94 too good. Versifier, how many grains of Reloader 7 are you using? I have cast some boolits out of WW and am gonna try them with my Felix Lube with the gas checks. I also have 30 or so lbs of Linotype if those dont shoot good. I am just playing around with that old Winchester, havent shot it in years. Feeling guilty I guess, ignoring it. It put a lot of venison on the table in my younger years back in La.

Swamprat

[Ricochet]

Bet a soupcan out of it'd bring down a nutria, too. :-D

[Buckshot]

............You can just crimp into the top lube groove if it's handy. I have been a proponent of the Lee C309-113F for years. I used to live out in the boonies in a long narrow valley maybe 200 yards wide at the bottom. Since we had horses there was grain and water around. As a result the ground squirrel population expanded. Plus the neighbor down the canyon fed her cats outside and the rodents just LOVED dry catfood :-)

Ground squirrels are pretty tough critters and unless a headshot is made, they may be abble to cripple off to their hole, dive into their hole to expire, or possibly make it under the feed or tack shed to check out. I tried all manner of 22RF's (Stingers were best) but could still be marginal. I spent many a nice afternoon in a lawn chair on the horse's wash rack with a 6 pack on ice and my 22 Rem across my lap watching the hillside.

This lead to wanting a better 'stopper' then the 22RF. Enter the Lee 113gr FP. I ended up with a really good load out of my 1903A1 using some SR4756 for 1600 fps. With the ladder up and the elevator at 300 yards it was 'on' at 50 yards. While this load was a bit noisier then the 22, it didn't have the sharp sound of the 22. It was also devastating with any kind of body hit, and one a bit far back would immobilze'em so you could get a finisher in.

My shooting buddy Ron also thought highley of them. One Tuesday morning when I arrived at the range he came up and said, "Check THIS out!". He had a target with 5 ticket punch holes going not much over an inch. He said it was the Soup Can out of his M94 and I said that was darn good, which was an understatement as come to find out, it had been shot at 100 yards over 23.0grs of H4198 and had been going 2100 fps :-)! He had a Leupold VX1 3-9 scope on the levergun, but still .................. He'd fired four 5 round groups and I'd say the average was maybe a 1-1/4" all told.

http://www.fototime.com/9DDC9AF2291A561/standard.jpg

8.0grs of Red Dot, Lee C309-113F. 1903 Sporter Springfield. Iron sights, 50 yards.

..............Buckshot

[PAT303]

I've been using that boolit in a Smle sporter to shoot rabbits and fox's out to 100 yards using 10 grns of AP70n,the similar powder to Red dot in Australia and seating the boolit to the top lube groove which left a long jump to the rifling but it shoots plenty good enough.Just as a side point,Lee's 165grn pointed boolit shoot's through paddy melons,a wild type of watermelon that grow everywhere this time off year without any indication of being hit,the same shot with the soupcan boolit blow's them to pieces.Flat point's on boolits makes a difference. Pat

[Newtire]

He said it was the Soup Can out of his M94 and I said that was darn good, which was an understatement as come to find out, it had been shot at 100 yards over 23.0grs of H4198 and had been going 2100 fps :-)! He had a Leupold VX1 3-9 scope on the levergun, but still .................. He'd fired four 5 round groups and I'd say the average was maybe a 1-1/4" all told.
8.0grs of Red Dot, Lee C309-113F. 1903 Sporter Springfield. Iron sights, 50 yards.

..............Buckshot

I used that load of H-4198 only at 21 gr. and it was real accurate too but stayed with the Unique load as it was cheaper! Now, I'll have to try that other load in my '06 loads. I have been loading a 150 gr. Saeco 298316 over 11-12 gr. Unique in my .30-06 and getting real nice clusters down there at 50 yds. Any 150 gr. I've tried works equally well but I lucked on a Saeco 4-holer on E-bay 5 or 6 yrs. ago that casts a bunch in a hurry. I missed the group buy(s) for the soup can because of lack of funds but this year will go for one if another is offered. Ramble ramble... Gotta go down and heat up the pot for some 120 gr. RN to feed the carbine. I know, there's one on group buy but not in gascheck.

[versifier]

This was worked up for a Rem788 bolt: 29.5gr RE7, 2.348" OAL, lino, LLA, .308sized. Win94 fed these and shot them well, too, as did SAV24 O/U. The one Marlin microgroove I tried them in patterned like a shotgun - undersized and too hard I figured. This load took 2 deer with Win 94, one shot each DRT.
My Contender carbine likes 25-27gr, 2.402" OAL, ACWW, LLA, .310sized.

[T-Bird]

I got one of these molds for christmas, and am just about ready to try it in a 30 carbine Blackhawk. anyone used it in this application?Any load info would be appreciated. Shoot straight, T-Bird

[Newtire]

Hi T-bird,

This may or may not work:
I load the 311359 in my M-1 carbine (it too is a 115 grain boolit-roughly 113 gr..). I am using 14.0 gr. H-4227 and getting the best accuracy from that carbine of any boolit I have used so far. The Soup-can won't feed or I'd use it.

[versifier]

T-Bird,
Do a site search. There was a long thread last year about .30carbine and handguns, with lots of different loads posted. Several of our members have RBH's in .30carb, and some have done a lot of load development for it. I shoot .30carb out of a Contender that loves sopucans.

[KevMT]

Hey guys, I havent gotten on the site much lately, had some puter problems. I bought one of the Lee 309-113-F molds for my 30-30 the other day just to have something to plink around with and also thought it might be a pretty good coyote bullet at close range.

How far do I seat that bullet. It has 2 lube grooves and a little indention on the nose. Do I use one of the grooves to crimp into or take it all the way out to that indention. I know I need to crimp it for use in a tubular magazine but unless I use a lube groove I dont have a cantelure to criimp into. I thought about using a Lee Factory Crimp Die. What is the best thing to do with this bullet?

Thanks
Swamprat

swamprat

I too am a big fan of the soup can. But feel I should warn you that the light bullet at moderate velocities is VERY suceptable to wind deflection. Here in windy montana I can get great accuracy under 50 yards but as the yardage incresses things start to open up very quickly. Not trying to turn you off here, but if it is windy and things are not working well from longer distances try them at 40-50 yards. You may be amazed at the difference.

Kev

[Buckshot]

.............Yeah, what KevMT said. Has the ballistics of a brick.

.............Bucksot

[Swamprat1052]

Oh well thats ok. I cant see the front sight much less a small target at 100 yds. Getting old aint much fun. I shoot a 22-250, 223 or 243 most of the time when calling coyotes. This is just for fun.

Swamprat

[KevMT]

Oh well thats ok. I cant see the front sight much less a small target at 100 yds. Getting old aint much fun. I shoot a 22-250, 223 or 243 most of the time when calling coyotes. This is just for fun.
Swamprat

I have been toying with the idea of using the soup can for a quiet coyote load when night calling. It's not unusual for us to get doubles (or more) from one location at night and the ranges are pretty short. I figured it would limit pelt damage while providing more "umph" than 22lr or 22mag. KevMT