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View Full Version : Is there a safe cracker in the house?



375RUGER
07-02-2012, 05:06 PM
I have acquired this safe. it was free. It is locked open right now. Nameplate says Gary or it could be a Cary. I have the key that unlocks the dial, the dial doesn't turn without the key. I am going to move it home this week, it's a heavy sucker.
I looked on the net and found a small amount of info but not much. The best thing I found was that the combination probably goes like this: 4 turns left, 3 turns right, 2 turns left, then 1 turn till the dial stops.

I think I can figure out the combo by watching the lockworks since the door is open.

Does anybody know about these safes?
Do I have to figure out the old combo first to change it?
or Can I set the new combo with the door locked open?
How do I set the new combo?

I have the serial # too if that would help.

wgr
07-02-2012, 05:21 PM
i would ask someone that sales safes

No_1
07-02-2012, 05:39 PM
Call a locksmith. The safe is open so it will be no sweat and less expensive for him to either set the combo of the current lock or upgrade it to newer technology that is harder to crack.

bearcove
07-02-2012, 05:50 PM
I have a locking dial like that on mine.its 4L, 3R...

L1A1Rocker
07-02-2012, 05:57 PM
Call a locksmith. The safe is open so it will be no sweat and less expensive for him to either set the combo of the current lock or upgrade it to newer technology that is harder to crack.

THIS!!!

With the back open it's easy as pie for the locksmith to re-set the combo. Be sure to tell him what kind it is so he knows what re-set key to have.

Mk42gunner
07-02-2012, 06:25 PM
From about my second ship on I was the Key and Lock Custodian and got to change a lot of safe combinations. I really don't like combination locks any more, but a pound or ten of keys is worse.

Free is good.

Locked open is good. A heck of a lot better than locked closed without the combo.

I never had any safes that had the dial locked; but I had quite a few in my career that had that style of lock mechanism. It looks like a fairly standard Sargeant & Greenleaf or Mosler lock. They aren't hard to change the combo; just be sure to check it at least three times before locking the safe.

Do you have the backplate for the lock? If not I don't imagine the part would cost too much.

One time out of several hundred combo changes I got dyslexic on the middle number. It took us about half a day to figure out what happened, not a lot of fun.

The standard combo for shipping safes in the Navy used to be 50-25-50; however I have seen it 25-50-25. It would be worth trying to see if it opens.

Let us know how it turns out, please.

Robert

Longwood
07-02-2012, 06:27 PM
Gary are quality safes that use good locks.
There is a special, goofy shaped key that a smith will have for setting a new combination.
You can see the little odd shaped hole for it in the backing plate.
You were correct in being able t o read the present combo by watching.
Do not shut and lock it until you ca run the combo perfectly.
One number off and you are seriously locked out.

OneSkinnyMass
07-02-2012, 06:35 PM
19-39-29
That was the combo lock for my footlocker in boot camp back in 1970
funny how certain numbers stick with ya and chances are, you'll never forget your new combo.

Skinny

pmer
07-02-2012, 06:54 PM
The long brass arm is the Drop Arm.
The round brass part is called the cam.
The round silver part is a combo wheel. There should be 3 of them, one for each number.
The sqaurish notch at 5 o-clock on the number wheel has to line up to the bar on the left side drop arm. It's behind drop arm on the hook side.

When the combo is entered correctly the 3 notches in the combo wheels are in line and located under the bar on the drop arm.

When you enter the last # and turn the dial till it stops the hook on the drop arm falls into the notch on the cam pulling the bolt in.

If you wanted to play with it till the lock smith shows up get a pencil, paper and flash light. Turn the dial a bunch of times to the left then watch the inside wheel notch and stop when it is under that bar - write down number. Two times right and as you turn watch for the notch on the middle wheel - write that down. Then go left till the outside wheel in the picture is in line - write that down.

If the lock is set to start to the left that should be the combo or close to it.

Longwood
07-02-2012, 08:52 PM
I believe the little brass lever in the lower part of pic #1 must be held in for the bolt to retract.
It is to lock the lock if the dial is punched.
If you cant find a smith, I may have one of the keys I could loan.

flagman1776
07-02-2012, 09:06 PM
I'm not sure of the internals anymore. Sargent & Greenleaf locks... most common... There is a reset key... looks like an allen wrench with cuts. Old combo is dialed in, key is inserted into inside of lock though a hole (square with a teat) & turned, new combo dialed, key turned back. Combo is reset. A buddy & I bought a dozen safes when a hardware chain went out, I reset all the combos. Do all the resetting & recheck several times before closing the door.

375RUGER
07-02-2012, 09:19 PM
pmer, great instructions.

got 'er dun.
loaded it up and brought it home. figured the combo out (first try) and now I just have to get it off the truck. Getting it on was a piece of cake, fork truck. I don't have a fork truck at the house though.
I don't see any need to change the combo, I'll just leave it for now.

I do have the other parts, last week I told my boys to take the cover off so we could see inside and they stripped it down to the mechanism.

Now I just hope it's big enough to hold all my gold and silver bullion

Thanks fellas.

TCLouis
07-02-2012, 09:53 PM
375 RUGER

Tie rope to safe.

Tie rope to immovable object

Drive off in vehicle with the safe on it

Loud noise it indicator of some level of success.

All kidding aside, that is how I unloaded my gunsafe and had to clear topper at the same time.

The 6" climb to floor level was a challenge for old fat guy like me and then pieces of 1"pipe were my friend to roll it into place

TCLouis
07-02-2012, 10:13 PM
375 RUGER

Tie rope to safe.

Tie rope to immovable object

Drive off in vehicle with the safe on it

Loud noise indicates some level of success.

All kidding aside, that is how I unloaded my gun safe including a come-a-long to get it from horizontal to vertical as I had to clear topper on my pickup at the same time.

The 6" climb to get the safe to floor level was a challenge for old fat guy like me and then pieces of 1"pipe were my friend to roll it into place

thegreatdane
07-02-2012, 10:18 PM
When I first read the title, I thought cautious white-guy :D

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2

pmer
07-02-2012, 11:34 PM
Good job getting the combo.

Cautious white guy..[smilie=l:

waksupi
07-03-2012, 12:24 AM
It is amazing the things you can learn here!

geargnasher
07-03-2012, 12:45 AM
That's good news! Operational with no locksmith required, all one needs is an OPEN safe and somebody to tell you how it works. I think we have "one of" just about everyone here, very little that can't be solved amongst the membership.

A former employer and (still!) good friend of mine was given a locked, empty safe by someone who salvaged it from the city dump. It was practially new, and a pretty decent, very large unit at that. We puzzled over it for a bit and then decided to cut the bottom out with a plasma torch, crawl up inside, and pull the back off the door. After doing that with little fuss he figured out the lock from the inside while another one of us worked the knob from the outside. After solving the combo and recording it we welded the bottom back on and put it in his office, where it still lives and functions today.

Gear

Longwood
07-03-2012, 01:10 AM
The little square hole, @ 11 oclock in photo 2 is the key hole.
Get a pieceof key stock that will fit it and you can set a new combo if the back is off of the lock.
Be gentle, 1/4 turn is all.

375RUGER
07-03-2012, 09:46 AM
When I first read the title, I thought cautious white-guy :D



:smile: I was thinking about that when I wrote the title but decided to leave it and see what happens

375RUGER
07-03-2012, 09:47 AM
The little square hole, @ 11 oclock in photo 2 is the key hole.
Get a pieceof key stock that will fit it and you can set a new combo if the back is off of the lock.
Be gentle, 1/4 turn is all.

Any additional instructions on how to use the key?
Free the lock with the old combo--insert key--turn 1/4--dial in new combo--remove key?

Longwood
07-03-2012, 10:01 AM
Any additional instructions on how to use the key?
Free the lock with the old combo--insert key--turn 1/4--dial in new combo--remove key?

The way each of the set rings, cams, or what ever they are called works is, each of the rings has 100 positions , one for each number on the dial.
The key lets one ring turn inside the other until the desired number is chosen.
they are surprisiingly simple for as well as they work. Play with it until you figure it out.

375RUGER
07-03-2012, 10:03 AM
. I think we have "one of" just about everyone here, very little that can't be solved amongst the membership.

Gear

That's what I love about this place, besides the encyclopedia of knowledge related to shooting.

If this was some other gun forum--I would have gotten something like "That's not gun related you twit--go find a forum that deals with safes and locksmithing"

A wonderful resource we have here.

We even have membership here that does business together that is not gun related, but have come together because of this forum. shooters helping shooters.

:drinks::drinks:

Mk42gunner
07-03-2012, 10:32 AM
Any additional instructions on how to use the key?
Free the lock with the old combo--insert key--turn 1/4--dial in new combo--remove key?

There should be two index marks on the bezel; the one you use to open the safe at 12 o'clock, and the change index at about 11 O'clock. When changing combinations you dial the old combo using the change index, then insert the change key in the back of the lock.

Spin the dail at least four times to clear the old combo; then just dial in the new combination, stopping on the last number. Take out the change key and try the lock at least trhee times before shutting the door.

If there is going to be more than one person with access to the safe; I highly recommend that you have two people try the new combo. (See the dyslexic statement in my earlier post).

Don't use birthdays, phone numbers or SSN for the combo.

Take all this advice with a grain of salt; I haven't changed any combo's since right before I retired in 2004.

Robert

Longwood
07-03-2012, 10:48 AM
There should be two index marks on the bezel; the one you use to open the safe at 12 o'clock, and the change index at about 11 O'clock. When changing combinations you dial the old combo using the change index, then insert the change key in the back of the lock.

Spin the dail at least four times to clear the old combo; then just dial in the new combination, stopping on the last number. Take out the change key and try the lock at least trhee times before shutting the door.



Robert

Thanks for adding that Robert.
It has been about 30 years since I messed with one and had completely forgotten that index mark.


375 Ruger
Robert pointed out something else that is important but I did not mention.
Each time you prepare to run the combination, spin the dial clockwise a revolution or two,, then, run the first number.

What ever you do, DON"T shut the door and lock it without the back on the lock.

pipehand
07-04-2012, 09:59 AM
What Mk42gunner said. Oh, and to answer the OP's question, yes I was a Safe and Vault Tech for about 6 years. Better money being a Pipehand. Also, the new combo should not have the last number set between 85 and 100. If you do, you lock may not be able to throw the bolt out to lock the safe. We used to refer to it as the "dead zone".

10x
07-05-2012, 07:52 AM
A local real estate company bought an old bank complete with a huge vault set in the basement. The wife and daughter of the owner decided to paint the inside of the safe , including the inside of the door. They then closed the door on the wet paint to reduce the smell. The paint dried and the door was glued shut. BTW the lock on the door was not engaged.... It took a couple of months of solvents blasted into the door crack to get the thing open...

On another note, a local demolition man had a contract to demolish a building that was once a bank. The safe consisted of a concrete vault complete with door. The demo man was able to demolish everything and haul it away, leaving the vault sticking up unscathed in the now empty lot. A few days later the demo man came back with a D9 and took another "crack" at the vault - it would not budge. The vault disappeared in the dark of a Sunday morning a few weeks later. We have no idea of how he got rid of it, whether he dug a hole, undercut ti and pushed it in, or had drilled it and soaked it in muratic acid to crumble the concrete, or had figured out a way to haul it away. He may even have drilled it and used small charges of dynamite to break it up - but no windows were broken. He never told anyone how he did it and no one will know as he died a few years later.

44man
07-05-2012, 09:06 AM
I took my 700# safe into the basement with no strain or pain.
We picked up two at the trucking outfit but I do not remember how we got them off the truck. If I remember we used a furniture dolly and long planks.
But I got mine into the basement myself. I built a cargo web sling with a large ring to go around the safe. The safe was strapped to the dolly too. I put boards down the steps for the wheels. I started the wheels on the boards with the dolly on the floor.
Then a big rope over a joist in the garage (no ceiling back then) doubled back with two half hitches. A friend lifted the dolly and I just moved one half hitch, then the other and the safe went down perfect.
Did the same with my lathe but had a ceiling so we backed the car in the garage and used the trailer ball for the rope. We used a jack up dolly to raise the lathe to the bench top.
Nothing will ever come out of the basement! :mrgreen:

375RUGER
07-05-2012, 10:21 AM
The wife wanted it in the closet. Luckily the closet has 2 doors, 1 from the room and 1 from the bathroom, the bathroom entrance afforded a straight shot into the closest.
When I built the back porch, I had the presence of mind to make it just high enough so that the tailgate would just clear deck level and I put 1 removable, lift-out section to accomadate bringing stuff in and out. I'm glad I did it now.
It was a bear but the bride, my boy and me got it done with a really heavy duty hand truck I built getting us to the bathroom on the far side of the house and then the final 5' rolling it on some 1" round bar.
First thing my son said when we got it into place was"we are not moving that thing, it can stay".