Good light loads for 1894C .357?

[FergusonTO35]

Hey guys. Now that I'm making my own boolits I want to work up some mild cast boolit loads for my Marlin 1894C with micro groove. I have the Lee 125 and 158 grain RNFP molds with regular lube grooves. I'm going to pan lube with NRA formula and size to .358. I'm planning to get them to mild .357 revolver power levels, maybe 1200-1400 fps. Powders I have in stock include Accurate #2 & #5, Titegroup, Unique, H110, and H4227. I also have regular and magnum primers. Any pet loads out there? This gun has always shot really well with my .38 Special reloads using these boolits.

[fecmech]

Maybe a little milder than you want but 5.3/231 with the Lee 125(1200 fps) and Lee TLSWC 158 (1120 fps) are very accurate out to 200 yds in 2 Rossi 92's and a Win 94. Accuracy is in the 3-4 moa range all the way to 200.
If you bump the Unique up .4-.5 gr above the 231 load you will have essentially the same thing. Unique is just a hair slower than 231 in the .38/.357

[Salmoneye]

My favorite 'gentle' .357 Mag load is 5gr of Red Dot under 158gr cast...

It would be in the ballpark of your velocity aims out of a carbine...

Sorry I can not help with the powders you have on hand...

[Longwood]

Word on the net is to not back off very far with H-110 or 4227.
I would never use a powder that can be double charged.

I like my guns, hands, eyes, and friends, too much to chance a double load.
One nice thing about the web is people can show how stupid they were and be anonymous. We are seeing photo's of and stories about guns exploding much more often now than when they got their photo in a gun Magazine.

[colonelhogan44]

Lee 125 TC over 5.5 (?) grains of green dot (OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD! CHECK LOAD DATA BEFORE TRYING!) is a really fun and accurate load.

I have no idea how fast it shoots, but I can hit pieces of firewood at 200 pretty easily.

[Salmoneye]

Word on the net is to not back off very far with H-110 or 4227.

'Word on the net', Hodgdon's own warning, and their own data all contradict each other...

Hodgdon's old 'published' data from the side of the can stated no more than 14.5gr H110 under a 158gr bullet in .357 Magnum...Literally millions of rounds have gone downrange safely with this load (and still do)...Their current data on their website states that 15gr is the starting load, with a max of 16.7gr...That is a full 2.2gr for more than 12% spread from current max to old min...Should I mention that the Hornady manual #4 lists the starting load at 14.1gr?

The 'dire warning' that you should not load below 3% under max is contradicted all through Hodgdon's own data if one cares to look...The real warning about H110/W296 (same powder) is that it needs a solid crimp, and a magnum primer for consistent ignition...The issue lies in the possibility of a squib, and a stuck bullet if the powder does not ignite fully...


I would never use a powder that can be double charged.

Then by all means, please don't...

:drinks:

[Longwood]

'Word on the net', Hodgdon's own warning, and their own data all contradict each other...

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What I read said and I read it here, is to not try to load "Light" with it.
By light, they were talking 75% or less of the recommended starting loads..

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Then by all means, please don't...

:drinks:

You can count on it.
You can also stand next to me when I am shooting reloads without fear of getting your nose blown off.:Fire:
I did not see the indecent I know of, but I sure saw a lot of the blood the innocent bystander left at the range.

[Salmoneye]

What I read said and I read it here, is to not try to load "Light" with it.
By light, they were talking 75% or less of the recommended starting loads..

From Hodgdon's own lawyer driven front page of their Data section:

H110 and Winchester 296 loads should not be reduced more than 3%.

Reduce H110 and Winchester 296 loads 3% and work up from there. H110 and Winchester 296 if reduced too much will cause inconsistent ignition. In some cases it will lodge a bullet in the barrel, causing a hazardous situation (Barrel Obstruction). This may cause severe personal injury or death to users or bystanders. DO NOT REDUCE H110 LOADS BY MORE THAN 3%.

http://data.hodgdon.com/main_menu.asp

And then they go on to ignore their warning throughout their published data...

[gundownunder]

And then they go on to ignore their warning throughout their published data...

or are they being misunderstood, IE. the starting load should be reduced no further than 3%.

[Salmoneye]

or are they being misunderstood, IE. the starting load should be reduced no further than 3%.

Here is a pic of a can of H-110 from the mid 90's that clearly shows the warning not to go more than 3% below the max charge of 14.5gr (158gr .357):

http://i49.tinypic.com/34g91tv.jpg

As pointed out 14.5gr max is already .5gr below their current recommended 'starting point'...The current max on the Hodgdon site is 16.7gr...

The current Hornady 8th Edition lists 12.7gr Min with a Max of 15.6gr, for a spread of 4 full grains from Hornady Minimum to Hodgdon Maximum...

I hear people all the time on the net saying "Stick to published' recipes"...Ok, then...Whose recipes do we stick to, or does our education, experience, and rational thought come into play at some point?

I do not believe that Hornady, nor Hodgdon, are losing any sleep over their recommended loads being too low or too high..

[FergusonTO35]

H110 is probably out, I bought it for HV hunting loads. How about Unique or Accurate #5? I would think one of these would be ideal. While we're talking about the .357, how do you guys feel about magnum primers? Some say one should use magnum primers in cartridges named "magnum", others say only when the data calls for it. Hodgdon's site lists the W-W SPM for all their .357 loads.

[Salmoneye]

With hard to ignite powders, I use a magnum primer...

As for your two remaining choices of powder, Unique will give you what you want for velocity, but in a rifle/carbine, the load will fall between .38 Special/.357 Mag...

Here is a link to the last real paper reloading manual published by Alliant:

http://glarp.atk.com/2004/2004Catalogs/2004AlliantPowderSM.pdf

The info you are looking for is on page 42, and you will have to rotate the page for ease of reading...

[FergusonTO35]

Thanks, I think that is what I'm looking for.

[Lonegun1894]

My plinking load is 7.0 grs Unique under a Lee 158RNFP. I'm not sure what the velocity is (seem to remember 1100/1200ish from a handgun from some manual I dont remember as I've been using this load for years and just wrote it down in my notebook instead) but it is very accurate in my Rossi '92 20" and my Ruger Security Six 4". It also did a great job on the only deer I ever tried it on with the Ruger. 45yd shot, 3 steps, deer down.

[FergusonTO35]

That sounds like a good load to me, I already have a bunch of those cast up. Do you size 'em to .358? What kind of lube do you use? Do you use a magnum primer and/or gas checks?

[Wally]

My plinking load is 7.0 grs Unique under a Lee 158RNFP. I'm not sure what the velocity is (seem to remember 1100/1200ish from a handgun from some manual I dont remember as I've been using this load for years and just wrote it down in my notebook instead) but it is very accurate in my Rossi '92 20" and my Ruger Security Six 4". It also did a great job on the only deer I ever tried it on with the Ruger. 45yd shot, 3 steps, deer down.

In my 1894C w/ Microgrooves use the same bullet w/8.0 Unique--gets 1,465 FPS Muzzle Velocity--I size to .359"...nothing wrong with 7.0 grains...you'd get around 1,300 FPS with that load.

[gundownunder]

My rifle hates the 158gr bullet but if yours likes it you could also try using Bluedot powder for a mid-level load. My rifle did quite well with Bluedot and the 125gr and 180gr bullets, although I believe Alliant now recommend not using it in light bullet loads like 125gr.

Another powder that might make a suitable plinker load is Trailboss, 3.5gr to 4.5gr will give you a full case and velocity will be in the region of 1100fps. I'm working on developing some loads with it for a 135gr rn, and a 175gr 360640 for pistol cal sillywet and 50yd target shooting.

[FergusonTO35]

Mine has always shot well with 158 grain loads, heavy and light, in boolits and jacketed. Back when I started reloading I tried Blue Dot and got some leading, although that may have been due to soft, store bought boolits.

[izzyjoe]

7grs. of unique will serve you well with 158's. size them to .359.

[perotter]

In two different Micro grove 1894Cs Unique @ 8.0 gr has work great for me with the Lee 158 RFN. Tumble lubed, sized to .359 & tumble lubed again.

I use the same load in my Blackhawk, FWIW.

[donald duck]

Thanks Guys for the info on loading the .357 in Carbine. My Marlin 1895 C is fun and not that accurate with my loads just yet. Trying Unique, W 231, Tight Group, and Green Dot. Trying 5.8 grain of Tight Group behind 130 grain cast RNFP.

[FergusonTO35]

I'm right there with ya. I always used J-words in my 1894 with .357's and am looking forward to replacing them with my own boolits.

[btroj]

I have never found an accurate reduced load for my 1894c. I have tried and tried with no luck.
I had enough trouble finding an accurate load at all.

I found the Mihec 359640 bullet to be the answer. It shoots very well in mine at higher velocities. Have not tried it in the 1200 fps range or below. Yet.

I think it has to do with the way the throat was cut in my rifle. I don't think it let's SWC bullets center up very well. The 640 style bullets have an ogive that tapers into the bore diameter section that I feel let's them find center and shoot more accurately.

I need to do more testing but the results I have gotten thus far tell me it is likely a fools errand. I am speaking of groups in the 8 inch range at 50 yards. That isn't going to quickly go down with just a powder change. The Mihec bullet does under 3 inches at 100 for compairison.

I need to make an impact "cast" of the throat to see what it really looks like. Might be telling.

[bobthenailer]

For loads in the 1,000 to 1,100 fps range i use 4.5 gr of Tightgroup loaded in 357 mag cases with just about any of my 158 to 180 gr cast bullets , 5 types in all, for really accurate loads.

[FergusonTO35]

Sounds good. Titegroup really lives up to its name in my .38 Special wheelguns.

[Lonegun1894]

Sorry about just now getting back to this. Yes, I size mine .358", but I have also shot some unsized, which cast at .360" and those worked well also, but I use the same loads in handguns and rifles, and for some reason I can't quite figure out, I get a leading in one of my revolvers at .360", but not at .358", and the rest shoot great at .358" so I just stick with it. My rifles are 2 Rossi 92s with the 1:30" ROT, and one Winchester 94 Trapper, which I think has 1:16 or 1:18", not sure anymore.