Petroleum in bullet lubes?

[dubber123]

This one has me wondering for a while now, For years I have read about keeping anything with petroleum in it away from powder or primers to preclude any squibs or misfires, but I notice it seems to be a major ingredient in many of your home brewed lubes. One formula I am interested in for it's simplicity is 3 parts beeswax to 1 part transmission fluid. Is the whole petroleum thing over emphasized, or what? I would also like to know any thoughts on substituting synthetic motor oil for the trans fluid. I have access to a full case right now, and thought it should add to the slipperiness over the trans fluid. Thanks in advance.

[44man]

Petro doesn't seem to hurt smokeless powder. For black you don't want any. If I am right, transmission fluid is seed based oil. For the best lube, I would make Felix and forget the rest. If you buy lube, then Lar's would be my choice. There are others like Bullshop that makes good stuff too.
Some automotive oils and greases will not mix with beeswax. If you play with it, make a real small batch so you don't waste wax.

[dubber123]

Thanks 44man, I have, on your suggestion bought 20 sticks of Lars Carnuba Red, and so far seem to like it. I have only tried it in .38 special, but even my +p+++loads do not lead, accuracy on the other hand I blame on my lack of practice, I couldn't do better than 3" at 50 yards last week for the life of me. My fault I'm sure. I will see what the general consesus is on this topic, and I think I'll try to pick up some beeswax and experiment shortly. Any other thoughts?

[Ricochet]

I think most Dexron 3 and 4 type ATF is petroleum based oil of somewhere around 32-34 centipoise viscosity at 40°C, with additives including detergents, friction modifiers, viscosity index modifiers, pour point depressants, oxidation and corrosion inhibitors, best I can make out from online specification sheets from suppliers.

[felix]

Yep, it smells like oil stuff too. That's enough proof for me, but naturally that is no guaranteed proof because my smeller does not smell too good anymore. Didn't I mention that I hate cars and everything to do with them on these pages many times before? Biggest waste of money there is, and nothing you can do about it. ... felix

[44man]

I know it's hard to get off the driveway

[Ricochet]

Ain't that the truth?!

[dubber123]

Well it appears that trying it might be the best bet. I will be going by a bee keeper this weekend, and I think I'll stop and see if he has any wax to sell. Maybe a small test batch is in order.

[Ricochet]

I think there's no substitute for trying things.

What's wrong with trying moose snot? Might be the best stuff ever!

[Ohio Rusty]

Ahhh .... I have thought of that myself .... Lots of people talk about the smoke and smell when they fire bullets, and no wonder !! At ignition, the petroleum based lube burns, and it is virtually the same smoke you get from burning tires .... No wonder it smells. I have in the works a lube using all natural ingredients that I want to try. It is a 50/50 mix of T/C's wonder lube for muzzleloaders, and beeswax. If it needs to be a little harder after my test, I'll add a marble size piece of candle wax or add more beeswax. This lube comes out bright yellow. With all the different names and colors of lubes, I think I'll name this ..... Ohio Rusty's 'Old Yeller Lube' .... Experimenting is half the fun !!
Ohio Rusty

[Ricochet]

You need to come with something that looks... well... rusty. :mrgreen:

[45r]

easiest petro lube seems to be bees wax and moly-graph sta-lube chassie grease mixed 50/50 by weight.another is 2 parts bees wax,2 parts parrifin,1 part STP oil treatment (same as saeco lube I've read).Been using lar carnuba red.Too lazy to make my own any more.Want to try BAC someday or mix in some moly grease to see if that makes it even better.Moly is messy but does seem to work better in some uses.some of my friends use lyman super moly and won;t use anything else.too much money compared to lars for me but they say after spending a lot of time casting they don't care about cost and think the moly stops leading while keeping the accuracy the same for a longer period of time.Veral Smith said it is about as good as his stuff.

[Char-Gar]

There must be something wrong with my powers of observation or my ability to understand just what the hell is going on.

I have been using about a 60/40 beeswax/Vasaline (petroleum jelly) for about 47 years for an all purpose rifle and pistol cast bullet lube and have never any problem, noticed any foul order or seen excessive smoke. I have never had it attack the powder or in anyway shape or form do anything but serve as an excellent bullet lube.

I have tried many other lube, but have never found one that did anything this old mix won't do. There are plenty of others just as good, but I have no experience one that is better.

It doesn't melt an run in hot Texas summers, it doesn't peter out in a long barrel and it will deliver all the accuracy the rifle and bullet has to give. My barrels don't lead and the bullets play follow the leader right well.

I am not a chemist or science type, and maybe there is no petroleum in it, despite the name "Petroleum Jelly". I just figured that was.

There just must be something wrong with me. I must be missing something, because this lube business just don't seem to be much of an issue with me. It seems to consume so many others and becomes a quest for something holy.

[MakeMineA10mm]

This one has me wondering for a while now, For years I have read about keeping anything with petroleum in it away from powder or primers to preclude any squibs or misfires, but I notice it seems to be a major ingredient in many of your home brewed lubes. One formula I am interested in for it's simplicity is 3 parts beeswax to 1 part transmission fluid. Is the whole petroleum thing over emphasized, or what? I would also like to know any thoughts on substituting synthetic motor oil for the trans fluid. I have access to a full case right now, and thought it should add to the slipperiness over the trans fluid. Thanks in advance.


I suspect this will turn into a HUGE "YMMV" thread.

First, let me say that when making some authentic-looking dummy rounds once, I used WD-40 and 3-in-1 penetrating oils to kill primers (Win LP). I decided to test, because I didn't want a primer that wasn't killed to lodge a bullet in the throat of the barrel or even tie up the cylinder by leaving it stuck crossing the barrel-cylinder gap, so I test fired a few cases primed with oil-deadened primers... Guess what? A couple of them went bang! After a little while of head-scratching, I decided that Winchester (and probably other primer manufacturers) seal their primer mix before seating the anvil into the primer. I decided to "kill" 10 more primers with penetrating oil, but to let the oil sit in the primer for a couple hours to give it time to penetrate the sealant. That worked.

On another occasion, I had some 9mm ammo that gave hang-fires, miss-fires, and when another person was shooting my dad's Beretta a stuck bullet, followed by a second round. (Ouch!) Bulged the barrel so bad that I couldn't open the slide. Still to this day have no idea how Beretta got that barrel out, but they sent the gun and barrel back to me and neither had been cut up, so I can only surmise they used a big rubber mallet and lots of horsepower! :( :roll: Anyway, upon pulling down that ammo (it was loaded with Red Dot and Lyman #356242 [122gr]), I found the bottom driving band had allowed lube to wick/seep/crawl through into the powder charge. Many of the rounds had the powder clumped up into a ball. It was almost like the petro in the lube (combined with heat) acted similarly to the alcohol-based solvents that powder manufacturers use to disolve the compounds in gunpowder, because the powder was all re-coagulated together into big clumps, rather than flakes of grains as it should have been...

So, what does that mean about petro and primers and powder? Well, it means that it will do strange (up to and including killing, but not necessarily) things to powder and primers and you should be guarded about doing things right.

As far as your question goes, my advice would be to watch how you make Felix'es lube, so that you get the proper amount of Ivory soap (sodium stearate) and bees wax or even parafin in it so that, 1-the petro parts of the lube don't separate out and leak into the powder area, and 2-the lube stays harder/resists melting to a little higher temp.

Another GREAT help would be: Store ammo so that the primer-end of cartridges face the sky and they don't get left anywhere that gets hot (>140 degrees), like the inside of a car parked in the sun.

[Ricochet]

No, there's nothing wrong with using something that's good enough and staying with it, and there's nothing wrong with experimenting either. There's certainly nothing holy about any of it.

You've just given me an idea, though: Candle scents! There's something we haven't tried in boolit lubes.
:mrgreen:

[Ohio Rusty]

It will be difficult to decide on either the Mulberry or Peaches-n-Cream flavored bullets .... Hmmmmmmm ........
Ohio Rusty

[Char-Gar]

Ricochet... Not understanding why folks do or don't do what they do or don't do, does not make it wrong. Lots of things in this life are neither right or wrong, they just are.

[mooman76]

Dubber123
It seems to me no one really answered you question. Yes you want to keep petrolium products out of your powder and primer but when you mix it with something solid like wax it is solid enough to keep from seaping into the powder and effecting it.

[dubber123]

Moonman76, you pretty well summed up my take on the matter, I do appreciate everyones input, and some of you have put my mind to ease, (a little), about the whole petro thing. I will do a little tinkering, and who knows, maybe strike gold! Thanks again, further input gladly welcomed.

[Ricochet]

Very true, Chargar! I just don't understand why lots of folks do lots of things folks do, myself. I won't give examples, or I'll deeply offend someone on here for sure! But that's life, we don't all like the same things and overall it's a good thing.

[mag_01]

I change color once in a while--- But I only use a version of Felix lube and have never had a problem. --- Mag

[Tristan]

I think most Dexron 3 and 4 type ATF is petroleum based oil of somewhere around 32-34 centipoise viscosity at 40°C, with additives including detergents, friction modifiers, viscosity index modifiers, pour point depressants, oxidation and corrosion inhibitors, best I can make out from online specification sheets from suppliers.

I wonder why you remind me of Spock? :wink:

[DLCTEX]

44man: The best way I've found to remove oils from the driveway is to wash it with TSP(trisodiumphosphate). I buy it at the hardware store. It also makes a good carpet cleaner and doesn't leave the dirt attracting residue that commercial shampoo does. We use it on carpet and furniture upholstery regularly. DALE