Lead contamination in garage

[johnho]

Having been thinking about selling my house soon and only being in it for just over 5 years, I wanted to test for lead. I have reloaded out there and cast bullets along with cleaning brass in an vibrator. Doing some research I found a 3M product called Leadcheck which seemed to be one of the only ones approved by the EPA. It has 8 vials that you break two liquids in the vial, mix them and then rub them on any surface.

I always cast with the garage door open and the side door open and a fan pulling the air out the garage. Reloading is pretty much done when the doors are closed. I tried one place near the entrance into the house on the carpet (yes my garage is carpeted which makes for neat little scars when the lead sprue gets away from me). No lead present. What a relief so far.

Next i tried on the window sill immediately above my casting and reloading bench. Figured if any was there it had to be right on that ledge. Surprise, no lead again.

Actually I was surprised. I expected to find some. the test kit even includes a test patch that when you get a negative response you rub the same swab on that patch and if it turns red then your test is confirmed it was negative.

[PuppetZ]

Not really surprising. Lead do not vaporize easily. If you kept dust from the tumbler at a minimum, lead contamination of your immediate environnement from casting is near non-existent.

[Moondawg]

How did hundreds of previous generations of humans reproduce, paint great paintings, explore the earth and space, discovery great scientific and medical break throughs, and produce great written words and/or music? How did they do all these things before the EPA discovered lead contimination and the government proceeded to scare the bejabbers out of everyone, in order to justify more government control over our lives and ever larger budgets?

[Mal Paso]

How did hundreds of previous generations of humans reproduce, paint great paintings, explore the earth and space, discovery great scientific and medical break throughs, and produce great written words and/or music? How did they do all these things before the EPA discovered lead contimination and the government proceeded to scare the bejabbers out of everyone, in order to justify more government control over our lives and ever larger budgets?

Ignorance Is Bliss!

[MtGun44]

Surprise! Like I have repeatedly pointed out "lead vapor" is mythical at casting temperatures.
Spatter should be cleaned up, and tumbler dust can be contaminated with primer residue,
which does contain lead residue. Sweep up and mop is all that is needed. Then wash
your hands.

Bill

[johnho]

I was aware that lead doesn't vaporize at such low casting temps we use. What I was mostly worried about was the reloading and case cleaning affects. I am hoping that those who are worried about lead getting all over everything and being a hazard to all living things (ha) are totally unfounded given even the most basic cleanliness practices. I am always amazed how many think that even shooting lead bullets is dangerous when they should be worried about the primers and the gases coming back in their face at an outdoor range or shooting indoors.

But I'm beating a dead horse with this group.

[runfiverun]

the best advice to avoid lead poisoning.
don't eat the lead.

if working with lead oxide a simple dust mask will go a long way,and respirator is needed if you are going to work with it continously.
i was working with lead oxides and operating a small casting business [and i smoke] my blood levels were no higher or lower than anybody elses in the company.
i made it a habit to wash my hands and face before smoking or eating.
simple right?
effective?.......... yes.

[MtGun44]

"wash my hands and face before smoking or eating." Yep!

This is about 95% of the whole deal. This has been proven repeately in industrial lead
operations. People want to make this mysterious and all, don't want to
believe in the basic cleanup issues being pretty much the whole problem.

Bill

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

some one was drinking , bathing , doing wash , with the water that ran thru my round balls 3 weeks ago

i got it the day the water service was replaced , the pipe was very clean just a touch of dirt on the outside no crust on the inside like some water utilities will tell you they have so that the water never actually touches the pipe

i smelted it down 3 days later , and had round balls 2 days after that

the only thing likely to ever get lead poisoning from that water service is the deer is shoot with it in the fall.

[MT Gianni]

If you had found some you would be required to disclose and mitigate with any buyer the cleanup methods used and post tests. It might save your piece of mind but IMO, the contamination would have to be visible from the tinsel fairy to be anything at all concerning.

[.458]

It would not be good for us to ever allow lead to find it's way into the environment (where we found it in the first place).

[HighHook]

It would not be good for us to ever allow lead to find it's way into the environment (where we found it in the first place).

+1 +1 +1:drinks:

[mold maker]

Much to do about almost nothing. Common sense dictates we clean up after ourselves, and try not to make a mess to begin with.
No, ingesting lead isn't a good thing, but neither is eating anything unclean, or with dirty hands.
Politicos make themselves important by creating a disaster to remedy. When one of them is successful, others jump on board. If this weren't the case, would we have to call in hazmat, to clean up a broken CFL????

[mongo]

When I was a kid I remember they tore down an old house where I lived. The water supply line was lead. That ment every house on the block, or the whole town used lead pipes for water service, I grew up there and now I shoot lead boolits every week, as well as cast, What was this thread about? Oh yeah, If you dont eat it ..it wont hurt you.

[sw282]

l worked at a bench for 25yrs. Soldering iron in my right hand. Dikes in my left. 60/40 solder between my teeth. Bench lamp had a fan lt ran seldom as it was noisy. 0nly lead health risks l ever witnessed came from high velocity

[dakotashooter2]

The EPA has done a fine job of crying "the sky is falling". The lead contamination risk to the average person is so minimal it's laughable. Chances are they will die in a car crash or from cancer long before they experience any negative effects of lead. We try to do rehab housing projects with government grant money and on aveage the REQUIREED lead abatement proceedures cost us 35-40% of the entire project costs. Just because there is some lead found in the paint. And it would be one thing if it were just i the habitable areas but even if it is found on a building 100 ft from the living area regulations require the abatement. There is no common sense to it. I think the people at the EPA have been eating paint chips and sniffing glue.............................

[Plate plinker]

Surprise! Like I have repeatedly pointed out "lead vapor" is mythical at casting temperatures.
Spatter should be cleaned up, and tumbler dust can be contaminated with primer residue,
which does contain lead residue. Sweep up and mop is all that is needed. Then wash
your hands.

Bill

Thought sweeping lead dust is a problem? Wet mop yes dry sweep no. Right?
Not really too concerned as I don't stick my face in the tumbler.

[4719dave]

Better check those test kits i use them all the time for checking older houses pre 1978 .I've had them only have the powder and not the wet chemical in there .EPA bad bad major fines ,its unreal .
DONT EAT THE BOOLITS .Funny thing ive got civil war boolit that the solders bit down on for pain go figure .ps i work for a garage door company .

[Bad Water Bill]

We used to close fishing sinkers with our teeth. I know a few went down the hatch by accident and that was over 60 years ago.

[Plate plinker]

Right-o bad water,but I never swallowed any. Gave the habit up though many years ago,well mostly.

[lunicy]

In my business, I am required by the EPA to know how to ID and clean up after a project, any lead dust. We use the mentioned 3M vials and they work fine.

In reality, it's alot of BS

When we find lead contaminated dust, we just clean and vac with a HEPA filter.
Mop and clean.
If it fails the post test, we have to use swifter wipes (yes, they are approved by the EPA) to clean again.

Much ado about nothing.

The instructor who taught my lead class was a sensationalist from the EPA. He kept sternly announcing that 1/4 of a teaspoon of lead could cause bodily damage.
(I didn't have the heart to explain the tons of lead I have in my shop)

[41 mag fan]

We used to close fishing sinkers with our teeth. I know a few went down the hatch by accident and that was over 60 years ago.

Did they come out the other hatch??? :bigsmyl2:

[Bad Water Bill]

Sorry never had ANY inclination to check.

You are welcome to come over any time as that job is still open.:kidding:

[4719dave]

Ya the instructor face lit up when i told him i cast lead . yes epa big fines but,the funny part after you do all the plastic tent etc put it all into a plastic bag goose neck than duck tape shut IT CAN GO INTO THE REG TRASH REALY ,SO THE DUMP GETS THE STUFF BUT THATS OKAY . WHOOPS sorry i went off .
In my business, I am required by the EPA to know how to ID and clean up after a project, any lead dust. We use the mentioned 3M vials and they work fine.

In reality, it's alot of BS

When we find lead contaminated dust, we just clean and vac with a HEPA filter.
Mop and clean.
If it fails the post test, we have to use swifter wipes (yes, they are approved by the EPA) to clean again.

Much ado about nothing.

The instructor who taught my lead class was a sensationalist from the EPA. He kept sternly announcing that 1/4 of a teaspoon of lead could cause bodily damage.
(I didn't have the heart to explain the tons of lead I have in my shop)

[Floydster]

I have an 1918 Georgia Colonial, been living there for the last 46 years, it has all lead water pipes,am 76 years old and still in good health, the only place I have lead now is in my butt:)

[Bad Water Bill]

There was a lady that lived across from me when I moved here 40 years ago. She was on her 80s at the time. She was born and died in the same house with the LEAD water main running from the street to the house. Yes she had problems when she died in her late 90s.

Now a question for the LEAD people. How many homes in the city are hooked up with lead pipe? Almost all of them except for the ones that still have the original WOOD piping. Yes that is what they used originally.

Almost all cities and suburbs built before about 1980 used lead pipe as the feeder to your home. Check the line coming into your meter and see if you can scrape it with a knife.

I have been told that almost every city across the country did the same thing. Lead was not expensive,would last way longer than steel pipe and was easier to make connections and bends with.

[44fanatic]

The instructor who taught my lead class was a sensationalist from the EPA. He kept sternly announcing that 1/4 of a teaspoon of lead could cause bodily damage.
(I didn't have the heart to explain the tons of lead I have in my shop)

1/4tsp of lead...yep I am ignorant, not a medical expert, nor have any training on lead exposure, my only learning experience concerning lead exposure is this forum. I wish the "experts" would ask the right questions and send/present the information out in the correct manner so that someone does not panick when they see a 1lb lead ingot...the experts being the doctors and EPA folks who consider themselves experts (I am sure there are one or two up there).
So the following questions are sort of rhetorical...critical thinking...

How does a person build up that much lead in their system?
How long does it take a person to build up that much lead in their system?
How long does lead stay in the system?
When we eat lead, how does it get absorbed and in what quantity does it get absorbed?
What size does the lead partical have to be to get absorbed?

Yep, I would say swallowing a 1/4oz split shot has put lead in our system, but how much lead actually stays in our system after we flush the toilet? How long does it stay in our system? Im am guessing that eating lead paint would cause a faster lead build up than swallowing a lead sinker due to the partical structures of the paint compared to raw lead (big assumption on my part). We may have someone on here who can answer this one.

Yep, 1/4tsp of lead can probably be and most certainly probably is damaging, but what type of exposure do we really have to have for that much lead to build up in our system is the real question and the real concern.

Like I said earlier, rhetorical questions and food for thought and definitely not a dig or poke at lunicy.

[Texantothecore]

Most of the lead contamination that made the headlines was due to leaded gas vapor, not children eating lead paint. Apparently the residue of that leaded gas is still bothering the California Condors, but not the buzzards, in that area.

So I wouldn't worry about it other than keep your cleaning media clean of primer residue which seems to be the major way reloaders become contaminated.

[Huntducks]

Heck I always thought you needed to eat a little lead from time to time to have lead in your pencil.

lead poisonning another goverment BS case, next it will be copper poisoning then brass.

[whisler]

Lead paint is a problem when eaten because the pigment is not metallic lead but Basic Lead Carbonate which can be dissolved by stomach acid. If you don't eat it or breathe the sanding dust, you are OK. That's why one recommendation is to encapsulate it, to keep it from breaking down, and leaving it in place. At least that was the recommendation when I was in the paint lab ten years ago.

[yondering]

The instructor who taught my lead class was a sensationalist from the EPA. He kept sternly announcing that 1/4 of a teaspoon of lead could cause bodily damage.


I agree, 1/4 teaspoon of lead is potentially lethal! But, it depends a lot on velocity and shot placement... :D

[soldierbilly1]

you all forgot the most important thing:

Lead is only toxic to Liberals. i.e. we are all OK

Hah

center 'em up!

billy boy

[Multigunner]

Pure lead may not cause any particular harm if ingested, afterall they have found that Uranium dust will be excreted by the body before it causes noticable harm, so long as the exposure isn't repeated and long term.
The problem of any metals comes from compounds, and organo-metalic compounds can be very lethal.

The first known artficial sweetener was lead acetate (sugar of lead), used by the ancient Romans to sweeten low quality wines and other uses. This has been found to have been the likely cause of mental degradation of those who consumed these artificially flavored wines and candied fruit and such, mostly the wealthy. Traces are found in the bones taken from tombs of the wealthy Romans, those who weren't cemated on pyres in the more common tradition.

[MtGun44]

Eating quantites of lead acetate. . . . . . . :shock:

Whole lotta ignorance in those days.

Bill

[BAGTIC]

When we found that lead in the environment in the first place it was buried deep underground. If returned it to the same place we found oit when we finished it probably wouldn't be much of a danger.

[BAGTIC]

Lead contamination from water pipes can be affected by the quality of the water. Water with a low Ph (acid) tends to dissolve to lead into very small micro particles that are easily absorbed. If someone swallowed a fishing sinker most of it would be expelled intact the mext day. If they swallowed an equal weight of lead dust like talcum or corn starh size much more would be absorbed. Birds sre affected more because their gizzards contain hard grinding stones that pulverize the lead into smaller more easily absorbed sparticles.

[MtGun44]

Lead isn't going to dissolve much in acids. They make pipes and storage containers for
acid production and storage (pure, super strong concentrated acids) out of lead. Drinkable
water can't have a pH very far away from 7, I would think. So I imagine the amount
of lead dissolved by 5 or 6 pH water would be very difficult to even detect.

Most waters will plate out calcium deposits over it and within weeks of new, the water will
not touch lead ever again.

Bill

[thauge]

The trick with lead is weather it is bio-available or not. Things like lead based paint are of concern due to the paint flaking off and becoming airborne. Plus the fact that lead is sweet and kids tend to lick it. Other lead-compounds can be a problem, depending on what other chemical they are bonded with. (i.e. lead sulfate) Lead and lead alloy are pretty stable. Our range is getting into a property dispute with a developer. The city has expanded and annexed the property within it's limits. This developer wants to build more houses in the middle of nowhere and brought in an environmental lawyer trying to get the range shut down on the basis that the runoff is polluting the groundwater. All of the runoff from the range goes into a pond, and prior testing showed that the lead level was a fraction of what the EPA is allowable in drinking water.