Big Bend and Carlsbad Info?

[bowfin]

My son is taking off on a spur of the moment expedition to visit Big Bend National Park and Carlsbad Caverns.

If any of you have any input on where to go, where not to go, what to see, where to eat, and what to do, I would appreciate any guidance or tips on these two places.

[geargnasher]

Don't go to Big Bend country on "spur of the moment", that's my advice! I've camped, hiked, jeeped, and flown over most of Big Bend National park, you son can email me if he wants and I can fill him in, use my handle at gmail. The NPS website has a link to Big Bend, and lots of good info on the FAQ page, especially good tips on what to do/see if you have one day, two days, etc. and your transportation and general health. This time of year it's dangerously hot there, and dry. You can get dehydrated to the point of passing out in just a few hours and not know it until it's too late. You have to force yourself to drink water, even set an alarm on your watch every fifteen minutes to keep up, trust me on this. There are two gas stations in the park, both are reasonable, but both are far from other stations outside the park. Don't underestimate the distances within the park, it's almost a million acres, and easier to run out of fuel than you think. Extra, full-sized spare tires are a must, even on pavement. The paved roads are good, but the heat is brutal. You can camp or stay in the hotel in the Basin, the next best accomodations are three hours out of the park in Fort Davis. Rosillos Ranch advertises heavily for cabins, but it's a dump, not worth visiting, and way out of the park.

As for Carlsbad, they specialize in tourism, all you have to do is show up and they'll tell you what's available to do and see. The caves are spectacular. Since it's "on the way" and in the dead of summer, he might want to check out the Caverns of Sonora just off I-10 between San Antonio and Fort Stockton, and Sonora is decent town to spend a night in, good hotels and a couple of passable restaurants.

Gear

[MtGun44]

Aside from the hot and dry stuff, I have heard some scary stuff about the border bandits,
druggies and such being potentially violent in that area, too.

I'll leave it to the locals to give more updated info, mine is at least a decade old and I think
it has gotten nothing but worse. Personally, I'd be armed at all times in that part of the
country, and have a rifle in the trunk, close at hand.

Bill

[geargnasher]

All the border crossings are closed, and the little mexican town across the creek from Rio Grande Village in the park is practically deserted now. Last time I was down there I saw a fellow washing his burros in the river, but that was about it. I always carry (against rules) in the park, but I don't go waving a pistol around and the rangers never have even asked about guns at my campsite or in my vehicle, I play it cool and so do they. If you don't leave your vehicle unattended at any of the riverside campgrounds or trailheads there shouldn't be any issue.

Another thing I forgot to mention, you will have to go through an INS checkpoint when leaving the park, and those guys have NO sense of humor. If you haven't been through one here's a tip: Just answer the questions the officer asks, no matter how silly they may seem, because all he's really doing is giving the other agents time to go around your vehicle with a drug-sniffing dog and get a peek in the back windows. If look like a yuppy and drive a Subaru, they may just wave you past, but they CAN make your life really difficult so don't give them a hard time.

Gear

[Mark85304]

I was raised in Carlsbad and have been to the caverns more times that I can count and I still enjoy seeing them.

I don't know if they are still giving tours of the new caves, but have your son look into tours of Ogle Cave and New Cave. Both of these are off the main Carlsbad cavern and are primitive (no paved pathways, bring your own flashlight). Be prepared to crawl around in bat guano and get dirty, but you will be rewarded beyond belief. At ogle cave you are lowered to the cavern floor through an opening in the ceiling (at least that was the entrance when I toured it). Together the Carlsbad Caverns, New Cave, and Ogle Cave are a combination no one will soon forget.

If he can only go to the main cavern, have him check into a guided tour of "off the beaten path" areas. There are usually limited openings, but it takes you to areas not accessible to the general public.

One other thing in Carlsbad worth checking out if tours are still available is WIPP (Waste Isolation Plant Project). This thing is dug 2700 feed down into 30 million year old salt beds (geologically stable) and hazardous materials are buried in tunnels radiating out from a main shaft. Once all the spokes are filled with waste the level is filled in with concrete and spokes are cut at the next level. There is a side where materials can be moved into place by man and another side where the radioactive material is remote handled (RH) by robotics. I have a cousin who programs the robotics.

If your son is going to Carlsbad, he should take the hour drive to Roswell and go through the Alien Museum.

Don't forget to have your son consider touring White Sands Missile Museum near Alamogordo.

Then there is New Mexico Space Port or Space Port USA, I don't remember which it is, in Upham over on the west side of NM near Truth Or Consequences. I believe Spaceship II and her transport are stationed there while she goes through final air worthiness trials.

There is a lot to do in New Mexico.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I loved Big Bend.
I tent camped there for 2 nights ...back in the mid 90's, January I think?
all I really remember is the isolation, rocks, and javelinas.
Jon

[bowfin]

Thanks so much for all the information. This forum is a great reference for more than just boolit casting!


I always carry (against rules) in the park

I told my son that there are some things you would rather be caught with than caught without...

I was wondering about the border at Big Bend, and if it saw much in the way of illegal traffic. However, the infromation about the heat I will pass on, as I know people tend to WAY underestimate how much water they will need outdoors in the heat.


If your son is going to Carlsbad, he should take the hour drive to Roswell and go through the Alien Museum.

He would definitely like that. I have to find an old picture to post about this very subject.

[popper]

PaloDuro canyon is about the same as BB, don't go there without water. Davis observatory and Sun Spot are also interesting. Take a GPS &/or radio, it's like the badlands, easy to get lost. Alien museum is a laughing spot, but curious. There is a famous and neat hotel, Alamagordo? just outside ruidoso ( there was a F Fire there last week?). Been through most of the big caves in the US but not Carlsbad.

[Leslie Sapp]

My wife and I spent our honeymoon camping in the Southwest back in 1987. We would travel until we were tired, pull over in the desert and pitch a tent. We loved the area around Carlsbad and the Guadalupe Mountains. It was our first taste of the west, and a radical change in environment for two kids raised in the swamps of North Florida.
Spur of the moment? - When asked by friends and family before the trip about our itinerary, our answer was "We're going West until we've spent half our money". Carlsbad was definitely one of the highlights of the trip.
Tell him go, have fun, be careful. The warnings about water and heat should be heeded.
I've always been extra cautious when out there, recognizing how much I don't know about that environment and it's potential dangers.

[Char-Gar]

Gear has pretty much given you the scoop on Big Bend, and this is what little I can offer.

The area has two different geographic area of interest.

1. The Davis Mountains with Ft. Davis being County seat. They have an old restored Fort there that is worth the trip to see. There is an old historic hotel in Ft. Davis called the Limpia Hotel. It is a fun place to say and the food there used to be good.

2. Big Bend National Park is worth the effort to see. Alpine (County seat of Brewster County) is the best jumping off place. There are some decent motels and places to eat there. Take Hwy 118 south to the Park. In the Park itself, the accomadations in the Basin are the best. North of the Park is the community of Study Butte (It is pronounced "stew-dy") and a hook in the road will take you to Terlingua and Lajitas. The area has seen some small tourist development in recent years, but those places come and go. Folks get a wild hair to go down there and try and make a living. Some of them go broke, others go nuts. The ones that have gone nuts pretty well make up the perminate local population. It is the land of the Desert Wierdo. They are for the most part harmless, but there will be no rapid 911 response, so you have to take care of your own problems. I recommend a 1911 autopistol in 45 ACP as good tool to have with you.

The little town of Marathon (mare-a-thun) has a great hotel, restraunte and bar (The Gage), but not much else, but is a way to go in or comefout of Big Bend Park is the folks want to go in or come out a different way. My Son chose the Gage to get married about four years a go. While there me, my daughter and SIL went into the bar. I threw open the door and yelled "Barkeep, I want whisky!" My daughter said, "Pop, somebody is liable to hurt you!". I said "No way daughter, down here nobody is going to mess with a 300 pound wildman". The way to stay safe down there is to be wierder than anybody else.

The little town of Marfa has become very trendy these days for artsy fartsy California refugees. Go there at your own risk, but the Marfa Lights do have some tourist value. No nobody there will hurt you but they might make you sick at your stomach.

The whole area down there is quite dry. One day a Yankee type ate at the Texas Cafe in Alpine and asked a Cowboy sitting the next day over, "How much rain do you get here?". The Cowboy replied, "About 7 inches a year.". "Well that certainly is not much said the Yankee". "You would not say that if you are here the day it comes down", replied the Cowboy. So watch for flash floods when it rains. I knew two folks who lost their cars crossing low places in the road. If you see rain, even miles away, get high and stay high for a time.

General advise I can give when motoring in the area are;

1. Have a map and know where you are going.
2. Keep an eye on the gas gage and know where you can fill up.
3. Don't just wander around without knowing where you are and where you are going.
4. If you plan on spending the night, call ahead and don't plan of just stopping some place that may or may not exist and may or may not have a room.
5. The best place to eat is where the most pickup trucks are parked.
6. Don't wander around in the desert without a hat, water and a plan. The desert of a wonderful place, but will kill a fool or a novice pretty damn quick.

[Char-Gar]

PaloDuro canyon is about the same as BB, don't go there without water. Davis observatory and Sun Spot are also interesting. Take a GPS &/or radio, it's like the badlands, easy to get lost. Alien museum is a laughing spot, but curious. There is a famous and neat hotel, Alamagordo? just outside ruidoso ( there was a F Fire there last week?). Been through most of the big caves in the US but not Carlsbad.

That is a mite confusing;

1. Big Bend and Palo Duro Canyon, are not anything alike and both are in Texas. That supposes one knows there is a difference between a canyon and ranges of mountains.
2. The observatory is run by the Univ. of Texas and is north of Ft. Davis Texas. Sun Spot is a nothing of a town in the mountains of News Mexico hundreds of miles away. I have been in Sun Spot and can see no reason why a person would go there, that did not has business there.
3. Alamogordo(New Mexico) is quite a piece from Ruidoso, but it is just down the mountains from Cloudcroft New Mexico. Lots of tourist stuff in Ruidoso and the Apache run a lodge and gaming place called the Inn of the Mountain Gods outside of Ruidoso. Cloudcroft has "The Lodge" which is a great place to say and eat. There is an Air Base in Alamogordo and it is close to White Sands missle range, so it caters to military and goverment types. Lots of chain motels and places to eat there.
4. Carlsbad Caverns is one of the natural wonders of this country and well worth seeing.

[richhodg66]

We used to Vacation at Big Bend and Guadalupe National Parks. I personally always like Guadalupe better and you can climb the peak which is the highest in Texas (8,700 or so). Not much by Rockies standards, but a good climp for us flatlanders. Guadlupe is also cloe to Carlsbad Caverns, which is the awsomest thing you'll ever see. I haven't been through a lot of caves, but my dad has and he tells me Carlsbad puts Mammoth cave to shame.

Guadalupe has a lot of nice shorter hikes and interesting country besides the peak also. I haven't climbed it in 20 years, wife and I went up there right after I got back from Desert Storm when we were at Fort Bliss, and they had developed the camp ground areas and facilities a while lot from the time I was a kid going there. Used to be, you had to carry all your water in, now they have runningw ater in the campground.

[bowfin]

I just had a check in with my son. He is in Seminole, Texas. I told him to check this forum first chance he gets to a computer.

We had 103º here in Nebraska today, so it's hot all over.

[ammohead]

When you are done touring Carlsbad plan on staying until dark. Seeing the bats come out at night is a sight you will not soon forget. I was eight years old and still remember the shear multitudes of bats like smoke pouring out of the opening.

[Char-Gar]

There is some drug smuggling down in the Big Bend, but it is mostly confined Presidio County via the Pinto Canyon Road. Not much comes through BBNP as to much National Park to cross. Some illegal alien traffic, but not as much as you would suppose. To darn far to walk in a hostile environment and the Border Patrol watches the roads out of the area like hawks.

There are only two paved roads out of the area and the aformentioned Pinto Canyon Rd, which is about half dirt and gravel. You are pretty much in a bottle down there and the only way out is through the neck.

[popper]

Big Bend and Palo Duro Canyon, are not anything alike and both are in Texas Sorry to mislead, they are both HOT and DRY. The main play area is OK, but the back canyon is nasty. Son did the marathon or run there, never again, going to NYC this year. Sun spot is the observatory at Cloudcroft. If you are lucky you can go inside and see some of the equipment ( did a project for them back in the '70s). A great view of the valley. The "The Lodge" is the one I remembered, Clark Gable stayed there often, like I care. I can see all the bats I want in Austin @ town Lake. Don't now the OP's route or plans, just tossing out some ideas for side trips.

[dpaultx]

just tossing out some ideas for side trips

One "side trip" that any NRA member (or any shooter for that matter) should definitely make if they find themselves traveling through northern New Mexico is a stop at the NRA's Whittington Center (http://nrawc.org/) southwest of Raton, NM.

NRA Whittington Center - YouTube Video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pC6TCNc9lYA)

Located just off I-25 approx 10 miles south of Raton, NM, the 30K acres of Whittington Center back up to the famous Philmont Scout Ranch and is bisected by the historic Santa Fe Trail.

Whittington Center is the nations premier shooting center featuring multiple ranges for virtually every segment of the shooting sports as well as accommodations for everything from large corporate retreats to individual cabins, including RV hook-ups and primitive camp sites. It's a great place to camp, if your traveling through the area, or just to spend a few hours in the Frank Brownell Museum. NRA membership is not required.

Highly recommended . . . Doug

[geargnasher]

Reread Char-Gar's post #10, it's the most apt description of the experience I've read.

"Desert Weirdos" is a fact, Jack.

I avoid Study Butte, Terlingua, Lajitas, and Presidio like the plague. There's an annual chili cookoff in the Terlinqua area that is world famous, and more wild than most of us can imagine.

Probably the most important thing to note is that, unlike most places in the US, this place simply isn't civilized. Towns marked on a map likely DON'T have a good hotel or a good gas station. If you need it, plan on taking it with you including police, fire and ambulance! There aren't any "convenience stores" in the area, you're lucky to find a leaning adobe building with someone in it selling cold Coke in a bottle and maybe some blankets or peanuts. I've been in more civilized areas in the remote parts of Mexico. The park itself, however, is quite nice, a mecca of intelligent and helpful park staff and a few well-equipped stores scattered throught the park. Alpine is the last civilized town you'll encounter. Marathon is pretty much useless, even fuel is spotty there sometimes. But they have an antique art gallery next to the hotel!

I've stayed in Ft. Davis at the hotel there, it's a nice little place in the desert, but don't expect more than Motel 6 quality rooms. Believe me, it's LUXURY compared to most of what the area has to offer except for Alpine, which has the normal stuff you'd expect.

Gear

[popper]

Could we clone that in central Texas? Or better, next to each state capital building?

[Char-Gar]

Come on Gear, I was married in Ft. Davis and spent my wedding night at the Limpia Hotel. That just must make it some kind of special.

Civilization is very over rated and wierd isn't always bad. I have always said my highest ambition was to be the local wierdo in some town in the Big Bend. Last time in Marathon, we saw a guy in a dress and long beard riding a bicycle down the street. My wife said "You can forget moving here, the job is already taken." So I can never be the Marathon Wierdo, but there are still other options available to me. I think the position is still open in Shafter.

I got into a gunfight with my own shadow in Shafter back about 62, but that is another story for another time.

[geargnasher]

Well, next time I'm through there I'll drink a toast to you and yours! I spent every vacation for nearly ten years out there, mostly in the national park, but since I got married we've only been once. She's a bug magnet and can't stand heat, so it's pretty miserable for her. That's ok with me, though, she's got her own house in Ouray, CO.

I agree civilization is overrated, and my best friend would certainly agree. He's the IT director for an advertising agency and likes to get as far away from people as he can on vacation, so we used to go to BB together a lot. He called Big Bend "The vacation of Last Resort", and ironically it was always our first choice. We're both a little odd!

Gear

[bowfin]

My son was awed by Carlsbad Caverns. He wanted to wait to say more when he has pictures in front of us.

Next stop, Texas...

I lasted only four days on the Shaggybevo football forum before I was banned for life, so I told them not to talk football down there.

[Char-Gar]

Football is not a sport in Texas. It is a religion.

[bowfin]

Son was back in the land of cell phones today. They are low on money and heading back.

Benjamin said he saw a tarantula crossing a road while he was hiking. He bent down to take a picture of it and a tarantula hawk swooped in and killed it right before his eyes.

[bowfin]

My son said the thing he will remember most about his trip through Big Bend and the surrounding area was listening to the Marfa Public Radio station as they travelled through some lonely looking territory.

REAL disc jockeys talking to themselves and anyone listening, people coming in off the street and doing their music, and Rockabilly hour sponsored by "Planet Marfa! hot bar food and the area's finest eating establishment! Just two miles east of the 4-way stop!"

Yep, the 4-way stop...

Nice to hear that we aren't completely overtaken by canned and syndicated content and in some place there are still real people on the other side of the radio. Right now I am listening to old Johnny Cash on that station...old, as in "Wide Open Road"...now "Crying in the Rain" by the Everly Brothers.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Nice to hear that we aren't completely overtaken by canned and syndicated content and in some place there are still real people on the other side of the radio. Right now I am listening to old Johnny Cash on that station...old, as in "Wide Open Road"...now "Crying in the Rain" by the Everly Brothers.

Does that station stream over the internet ?
if so, do you have a link to share ?
Jon

[bowfin]

http://marfapublicradio.org/

click on the Listen Now in the upper right hand corner.

I was listening last night from 8:30-10:30 P.M. (Central Time)

One of the disc jockeys had a recording of a song he wrote and sang at a local establishment and was playing that when I first tuned into the show.

[Revolver]

I grew up in NM and remembered Carlsbad Caverns as a kid. Now in Maine, Last year I took my kids there and it was even better than I remember. It's really nice, cool, and refreshing down there. Even my 4 year old never got bored and she walked the whole way. We also stopped at the Roswell Alien museum for fun.

I think Carlsbad Caverns is one of the most amazing things I have ever seen with my own two eyes.