Sad, Sad day at the Kelly Creek Cattle Co.

[x101airborne]

Well, I went out to the ranch yesterday with my neighbor, only to find one of our 200 year old live oaks fallen over. This is heartbreaking, but I know it happens. This tree on it's side is taller than I am. I mean literally, the trunk is 6 foot across. The limbs are 3 foot plus. This thing really had to be a seedling when Columbus stumbled his dumb posterior to the new world. Question is.... What to do with it now??
I dont want to just burn it. That is a waste. I do have a little reverence for Mother Earth. But at the same time it would take a big ole crane to lift just the trunk, some huge saws to cut it, and I dont know if it would be worth it for anyone to get. I would give it free to anyone who could use it, but I am not paying to have it moved.
Does anyone have any suggestions?

[Love Life]

I don't have any answers for you, but I feel your pain. An old live oak is a sight to see. We had one on Camp Lejeune that was over 300 years old IIRC. It's limbs were so long some of them went back into the ground and came back out.

When I used to cut firewood for pocket money I never touched the live oaks. The old ones are just majestic and you can sit under their shade and wonder what they saw in their years.

[skeet1]

Oak lumber?

[Jim]

If it's real Live Oak, the grain is very twisty. Not much you can build with it. It can be incredibly difficult to split, too.

[L1A1Rocker]

Not much milling in your area so that's a problem. I would imagine if you do a few inquiries in the Houston area you may find a mill in east Texas somewhere that you can make a deal with. Most of the really old oaks are cut thin to make vinears (sp?) with. There is BIG $$$s in that.

If you can make contact with a mill I'd try to trade out some 2-3 inch cross sections (no voids) for yourself (to make tables or such from) and see if they'll call it even.

Good luck

[geargnasher]

When the infamous Live Oak Blight hit here many years ago, it decimated the population. Many of the "survivors" still only put out a pitiful small percentage of their canopy. We had a huge stand of them on our property, now they're all dead except for the new crop, which are booming and healthy, getting in the 3-6" range and some approaching 20ft tall. The new ones have had a lot of help from us with strategic pruning and cutting back the cedar from them so they can get light and water.

At the time then they were dropping dead, it so happened that the USS Constitution was being restored and there was a massive need for good, seasoned live-oak lumber. We contacted the folks doing the resto and they came out and cut a few of them that were the right shape for "knees" and other odd parts they needed. The rest turned into firewood, but the largest was only about three feet in diameter, three feet off the ground, most of them were about 2 feet or so. A few trunks still stand, dead for 25 years and only now losing the bark. Sawmills here won't touch them because they're hard as iron.

I don't know what I'd do with a tree like that Trey, but maybe a Craigslist ad would turn up some people who would? You might even turn up a few bucks for the feed bill in the process, but I'd also request a thin cross-section near the base to make a nice coffee table top for the front porch of your cabin.

Gear

[Frank46]

I have a couple on my property. Beautiful trees but a pain to pick up after. The longer you leave the wood to dry the harder on your saws it will be to cut. Trust me on this. When hurricane andrew came through here one bit the dust. Literally got so hard that an axe would actually bounce off. Chain saw had to be filed after each cut. Lost a great pecan tree due to a hurricane.
A lot of it was in manageable chunks after the chain saw paid it a visit. I was literally sawing it apart over a period of a couple years. Took a long time every so often to saw and burn the pieces. Frank

[crabo]

Got any pictures?

[Plate plinker]

Loggers up north here like to keep the trunks wet to avoid cracking/splitting. Most of the serious work is done in the winter for that reason. A way cool project is to get a massive slap out of the trunk .....say 3 inches thick and make a table. Legs too. And benches. Amish people here made one from black walnut asking like $6500 for it.

[x101airborne]

Well, I gotta go out there tomorrow to get a spare water heater, Yeah, my AO Smith is lieaking like a seive. But I should be able to snap some pics. I will also TRY to wrap a tape around the trunk for an accurate measurement. And I do mean TRY. This thing is huge. I kinda feel like I lost another third of my liver or donated a kidney or something. If I wind up burning this thing I will cry. No man-pride here.

[x101airborne]

BTW.... I know quater sawn oak is a premium furnature wood. That is mainly what I would like to see this go to.

Ya know....... I could use a new rocker for my back porch......

[runfiverun]

it would make some nice boolit retrieval material at the least.

[dpaultx]

Chainsaw sculptors are always looking for big chunks of timber.

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_6GQRBJwJ37M/SdzxwkpMZkI/AAAAAAAAJgo/M4imnrKL_HM/s800/100120image008.jpg http://www.travelguidebook.com/decopix/pix/BC/Chetwynd/ChainsawCarving4.jpg

Got to be several of them in the Houston/Galveston area.

Just a thought . . . Doug

[square butte]

There are folks that will pay big money for your butt log or logs depending upon thier diameter, length and soundness (lack of rot). If you call over to the School of Forestry at Stephen F Austin St. Univ. (Nacogdoches) 0r - I think Texas A & M now has a shool of forestry as well. They may have an idea or two for you about finding a buyer. Many times lange diameter logs are more desireable to artisan types (Table top makers etc.) Some folks like to rough hew fire place mantle beams for larger custom home fire places. Often lumber folks do not have head saw rigs large enough to handle you log diameter, But qurter sawn oak always brings a premium - and wide boards are tough to come buy - and valuable. Do something sooner rather than latter. Logs begin to check or crack quickly in hot weather. I have a degree in Forestry (SFASU) and worked as a forester for the USFS. Your gonna find someone who can help you with your project. I remember the hugh live oaks around Columbus, TX. Vert old. Good Luck

[Down South]

The main problem with trying to make lumber out of it is most of the old saw mills that could handle a trunk that size are no longer around. Most saw mills now are geared to cut smaller diameter trees.
I had one of the largest pine trees known around my neck of the woods in the back of my pasture. It came down two years ago from a storm. The trunk was 4 ft in diameter. I could not even give it away. I was told there was a mill somewhere over in Mississippi that could saw it. It was too much trouble to find something to load it with and too far to haul it.

[Blacksmith]

Maybe you could get a slab and have someone turn it into a custom stock for one of your firearms. That way you could have a piece of history to hold.

[flounderman]

if you do get a slab or lumber, seal the ends or edges or they will crack

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I doubt this helps you, but there is a fellow MN that turns large logs, I doubt he could turn a 6' dia log, but it's a interesting video.
http://www.mnoriginal.org/episode/mn-original-show-112/virgil-leih/

[TCLouis]

Sell it or convert it to lumber and find uses/sell the lumber.

[akajun]

Most mills cant handle trunks over 24" in diameter. Also , I have never seen a logger go after a live oak, they will take down water oaks, red oaks, white oaks, etc, but I have never seen them go after a live oak. Tells me that the wood is not good. I will say it makes excellent firewood.

[SciFiJim]

Might be time to invest in a chain saw with a 72" bar. Selling the disks for table tops could help to recover the cost of the saw.

[square butte]

Yes what SciFiJim said - And don't forget the Alaskan Chain Saw Mill to keep you cuttin on the strait and narrow with your 72" bar

[Plate plinker]

Might be time to invest in a chain saw with a 72" bar. Selling the disks for table tops could help to recover the cost of the saw.

Yeah that a stupendous idea! Likemyearlier post but easier to do for the untrained woodworker.:2_high5:

[Plate plinker]

Slabs of rings. Them using chisel take of the bark. Cover with poly or bar top epoxy. Yea! :redneck:

[para45lda]

We had one fall/blow over a couple of years ago. Evidently there are still plenty of roots in the ground because it's still living and growing new limbs. Maybe a wait and see won't hurt?

Wes

[x101airborne]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_155754fe784b72e22c.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=5666)http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_155754fe784d335bdc.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=5667)

[x101airborne]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_155754fe7876768b94.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=5670)

[x101airborne]

Circumference is 15 feet 8 foot above the root.
First limb is 22 foot from the root ball.
That is my stepson in the picture. He is just short of 5 foot tall.
And, honestly it was not 6 foot across, as I guessed. But it is still a big ole tree.

[Alan in Vermont]

Slabs of rings. Them using chisel take of the bark. Cover with poly or bar top epoxy. Yea! :redneck:

Nice theory but it won't work. Radial shrinkage is so great that the slabs will split all the way to the center as they dry. There is no practical way to prevent that. It might be possible to treat them with Polyetheylene Glycol to save them but maybe not even that would counteract shrinkage on a slice that big. PEG prevents shrinkage by soaking the wood with a non-evaporating liquid. Downside is that since the wood never dries it always feels cool/damp to the touch, weight stays as high, or higher, than green wood and, IIRC, it is fussy about what finishes you can put over it.

[Alan in Vermont]

If it was practical to cut it into small billets it would make some nice mold mallets. If it's as hard and twisty as it is reputed to be it would be about indestrucible in that application.

[square butte]

If there is any rot in the bottom end - It is most likely a fire wood tree. Above the rot may be useful to someone - depending on diameter and length. The most useable diameter measurement is at DBH (which is diameter at breast hight - or 4.5 feet)

[Plate plinker]

Depending on the crack width they could be filled. Just give a little more character to look at.

[geargnasher]

Nice theory but it won't work. Radial shrinkage is so great that the slabs will split all the way to the center as they dry. There is no practical way to prevent that. It might be possible to treat them with Polyetheylene Glycol to save them but maybe not even that would counteract shrinkage on a slice that big. PEG prevents shrinkage by soaking the wood with a non-evaporating liquid. Downside is that since the wood never dries it always feels cool/damp to the touch, weight stays as high, or higher, than green wood and, IIRC, it is fussy about what finishes you can put over it.

I don't think this is as true of an ancient Live Oak as it is of other woods. I've seen lots of large slab tables made from it, and while there are usually two or three cracks radiating from the center, it doesn't destroy the whole piece. If one can manage to find a shop witha 60" wide-belt or drum sander and pay the price, a well-sawn slab can make a most excellent tabletop. The cracks are filled with self-leveling epoxy in stages before the top is coated, and once the whole thing is sealed up the shrinkage stops.

Gear

[quilbilly]

Great pics. As a former part time "tree hunter" for specialty wood, I am looking at that bend in the trunk and thinking that, if there isn't any heart rot, you may have something really nice. I would take a chain saw and cut below the bend a couple feet and above about 4 feet to see what is on the inside. If it is clean (no heart rot) I would have it quarter sawed into 1-1/2" planks and make a beautiful table. The reason is that a bend like that may have some fiddle back grain figuring. Be a shame not to make something nice out of it. I will bet there is someone local with a portable sawmill.

[legend]

I would bet that local wood turners would love to turn some of that one,i SURE would if it was in wyoming.

[crabo]

Thanks for the pics.

[WILCO]

Make some money of that dog! Find a way to chip it, bag it and burn it.

"•Oak - probably best all around wood for meat smoking. Strong but not overpowering, good for sausages, beef or lamb. Smoked products develop light brown to brown color, depending on the length of smoking." From this website:

http://www.wedlinydomowe.com/meat-smoking/wood

If the tree being referenced is truly that big, you just might have your own version of the Old Man and the Sea.

[GRid.1569]

It's ashame to see something that's stood so long and then gone...

but when your done cutting it up...

keep the sawdust!.... you'll never need flux again....

[x101airborne]

Well, The Old Man and the Sea is what is making me think that maybe it isn't worth it. That story being about vanity and strife and all. And I do understand that live oak is some tuff stuff. I have seen it bounce pistol rounds off like it was nothing and dulled many chainsaw chains cutting smaller stuff. I am going to try to find the number to the forrestry service after while.

[x101airborne]

Well, the forestry service hasn't called back yet and two commercial log buyers have told me to burn it. It is worthless.
I was sure hoping for good news.

[Dorf]

A friend had a large oak that was well over four feet in diameter. Since there was no one locally who could saw it into lumber, he took a slice off the stump end and made a (very heavy) table of it. when it was finished as a table, he started counting the growth rings from the outside in and marking important family info (births, weddings, funerals, etc) on the appropriate ring. Makes a pretty impressive "family tree". Hope this helps, Stan.

[Leslie Sapp]

Outside the shipbuilding industry, there's not much use for it. It does make good blocks for anvils and such to sit on in a shop. Don't try to cook on it, it tends to add a strong tannin taste to the meat, especially if it's still a little green. It makes a decent, long lasting stove wood if it's really, really dry.
I have seen large timbers for mantles cut out of it, but they must be sealed on all surfaces with paint and go through years of slow drying in order to avoid seasoning cracks. All in all, you can spend a lot of time and money on that log, and end up with something of little or no value.

[gravel]

too bad it can't make a few end tables, or coffee tables. no local woodworkers interested?



will any part of it be suitable for a totem pole?


speaking of the USS Constitution and oak,

http://www.insideindianabusiness.com/newsitem.asp?ID=53427

[mold maker]

I had 2 water oaks and a white oak cut in Oct of 2010. The smallest was 42" chest high, and the white oak was 49". Counting the rings at the base showed them all to be 90-119 years old.
All three were mature, and dropping limbs. Twice they fell on my, then almost new, pickup. After over $3000. in repairs, I decided to protect my house, and property from further damage.
I'm still splitting and stacking wood from them. My Son hauled 14 cords and I've sold several dump truck loads. I have a wood furnace for emergencies, and have managed to burn about 2 cords, to save on gas, but the weather has been exceptionally warm, and no need for much supplemental heat.
No doubt the exercise hasn't hurt me, but The time spent could have been better used shooting, casting, and reloading.
The first few weeks were painful, to this 70yr old, out of shape body.

[BD]

There may be a small niche market for live Oak as mallet and beetle heads for the timber framing industry. These are typically Hornbeam and Oak respectively, and harder is better.

BD

[BoolitSchuuter]

I took the liberty of googeling "Live Oak". Seems it is well suited to Ship building. You might contact someone associated with Old Ironsides to see if they might be interested in that log. I don't know anything about ship building, but just looking at the curve in that log it seems it would be ideal for replacing part of the keel if needed. A clear solid log of that size would be a shame to just use for fire wood. I got some contact info. Maybe they can direct you to a person that could help if you chose to offer it to Old Ironsides.

Command Master Chief:
CMDCM (SW/AW) Roxanne Rhoades
Contact information:
E-mail - constitution.cc@navy.mil

[felix]

MOISTURE CURE PolyUrethane might indeed work if it can be applied thick enough for a 3 inch thick section. Worth a try. More than 100 bucks per gallon? ... felix

[x101airborne]

I emailed pics and a letter to Mrs. Rhoades at the Constitution. I would be real proud to donate it to the cause. Great idea.

[bearcove]

I took the liberty of googeling "Live Oak". Seems it is well suited to Ship building. You might contact someone associated with Old Ironsides to see if they might be interested in that log. I don't know anything about ship building, but just looking at the curve in that log it seems it would be ideal for replacing part of the keel if needed. A clear solid log of that size would be a shame to just use for fire wood. I got some contact info. Maybe they can direct you to a person that could help if you chose to offer it to Old Ironsides.

Command Master Chief:
CMDCM (SW/AW) Roxanne Rhoades
Contact information:
E-mail - constitution.cc@navy.mil

I think its just for the knees. Where the branch joins the trunk you get a piece that reinforces a corner.

[Just Duke]

Someone say they had some wood to donate? :bigsmyl2:
That type of wood is what the locals in Texas call Post Oak. It is a very tight grain due to slow growth.
Looks like it wood take this Oregon transplant (me) 3 hours to cut through and considered to be a sapling up our way.
If it's that hard it would be to brittle for ship building. Wood ships take a massive amount of flexing. That type of wood would be good for dry docking supports and wedges.
Meet my future little friend. http://www.timberking.com/1400

Here's a trig of a tree out around Humptulips WA. most are 4 times bigger.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y137/humptulips/bigspruce.jpg

[Plate plinker]

Uh. Duke you are gonna need a larger sawmill.:p

[Just Duke]

Uh. Duke you are gonna need a larger sawmill.:p

They don't get that big at my primary home in OR besides I would need a yarder and spar pole the size of house to drag that bad boy out . lol 45 minutes NW out by our hill billy shack in Vernonia you can also find the big ones in the pic also.
Most my way are third growth timber and scrawney 3 and 4 footers. Humptulips is just east of Moclips as the crow flies and in a rain forest. I don't think we have any members out that way but feel free to chime in though Barbie's from Olympia which is close sort of.
My Vancouver WA place looks like a Kansas corn filed though. Now I wonder how that happened? ;)

[geargnasher]

Dang, time flies. I didn't know the USS Constitution was ready for another overhaul already, but this might be timely.

Gear

[x101airborne]

Well, I was hoping they would stockpile the wood or something. Since I still havent heard, I guess not.

[Just Duke]

Dang, time flies. I didn't know the USS Constitution was ready for another overhaul already, but this might be timely.

Gear

Last I heard she was ship under weigh.

[Just Duke]

This is they call a tree around Olympia. :D Just add 160 inches of rain a years and this is what you get.

[Just Duke]

Well, I was hoping they would stockpile the wood or something. Since I still havent heard, I guess not.


Holy Smokes! You guys get 37 to 40 of rainfall a year! That's as much as Portland OR.
Your lucky because the rest of Texas is dry dry.

[725]

Keep searching. Think furniture. Big round table tops, custom bar tops, desk tops, GUN CABINETS. No end to the possibilities. There's a guy in Cockeysville, Md. that does exotic lumber/woods. Might be worth a call for information & ideas. Josh 410-561-9444 He does wood from all over the world.

[bowfin]

The nickname "Old Ironsides" was given to the U.S.S. Constitution by a British sailor during a battle after several cannonballs bounced off her sides. This was due to the use of live oak in much of the building, as well as the hull being 25 inches thick in places.

John Morgan, the man tasked with procuring the live oak, made sure trees were cut according to how their bends and curves would match up with designs of the ribs and posts, much like a good stockmaker would do with a fine piece of walnut. The men cutting the oaks in South Carolina suffered terribly from malaria, and if that wasn't bad enough, one ship carrying a load of wood was lost at sea.

Here's a good link to the building of the Constitution and her sister ships:

http://www.tutorgig.info/ed/Six_original_United_States_frigates

As an aside, the British coveted the Eastern White Pines found in the United States for masts, since their weight to strength ratio made for fast ships, and the fact that they grew straighter and taller than anything comparable in England. The Crown claimed the best trees in the Colonies for the British Navy, and when they lost the colonies, they lost a valuable strategic resource.

[bowfin]

two commercial log buyers have told me to burn it. It is worthless

That's too big a piece of wood to burn up without giving a little more time to find a home for it.

Put it on Craig's List at least.

[Down South]

two commercial log buyers have told me to burn it. It is worthless

Burning it will be one heck of a job. I've tried burning big trees and it ain't easy but that will be your best bet other than letting it rot for the next century or so. Getting rid of a tree that size is a problem. I know lots of folks on here would like to salvage it but I doubt it will be worth the effort, time and expense.
I hate as bad as anyone to see something like this go to waste but sometimes, that's the best option. The log buyers are correct.

[Just Duke]

What happen to the tree?

[6bg6ga]

Loggers up north here like to keep the trunks wet to avoid cracking/splitting. Most of the serious work is done in the winter for that reason. A way cool project is to get a massive slap out of the trunk .....say 3 inches thick and make a table. Legs too. And benches. Amish people here made one from black walnut asking like $6500 for it.

yup, make a cool table out of it

[popper]

Wood lathe workers love that stuff. Not nearly as bad as mesquite to work. Black walnut is even better. I think airborne has left the site.

[Just Duke]

Bob Krack told me he had some medical issues. Is he still with us? Anyone here close to him?

[Sweetpea]

Bob Krack told me he had some medical issues. Is he still with us? Anyone here close to him?

He passed a while back, went to the big range in the sky...

[Just Duke]

He passed a while back, went to the big range in the sky...

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/member.php?15575-x101airborne

[Sweetpea]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?207100-Loss-of-a-Castboolits-Family-Member&highlight=bob+krack

[Just Duke]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?207100-Loss-of-a-Castboolits-Family-Member&highlight=bob+krack


Thanks Sweetpea.
I was asking about what happen to the OP on this thread.

[Sweetpea]

Ahhh...

That makes a bit more sense.

IIRC, his father has some medical issues, so his time is taken up more taking care of the ranch.

He also got quite upset a while back (justifiably), when a newer member made a disparaging comment to ScottieMom, aka Janet.

He hasn't been around much since.

PM coming your way, Duke.

[Down South]

He passed a while back, went to the big range in the sky...
I now remember reading about it. RIP Bob.

[MaryB]

White and red oak are good BBQ wood, live oak not so much... I know this is an old thread but interesting read.

[Bad Water Bill]

He went to help on his dads ranch.

His dad had major health issues and the ranch was being over run by hogs.

He felt his place was taking care of family first.

He may be back some day to share more of his stories with us.

I hope all is well with him and his family.

[w5pv]

Get you a good saw pardner and cross cut saw.I have saw pictures where the old timers would dig a trench and one would be on top and the other in the trench and they would slab the wood that way.I think this is the reason the normal life span was below 50 years old.

[MtGun44]

Do a search on wooden ship building. These things are highly valued for
that application. Of course, I have no idea how many people are building
wooden ships these days - got be a very small number.

That wood is harder than the hinges of hell, and highly rot resistant if kept
reasonably dry. I have seen 20 yr old logs that were off the ground
that were darned near hard as concrete, no sign of rot.

Also, it is probably not nearly as old as you think. Probably 100-150.
I sawed up some 4-5 foot oaks (no live) in central Virginia in the yard
of a house built about 1811. Glass negatives in the attic showed at
least 3 different generations of BIG trees in the yard, and none of
them were the ones that were blown down back in '76. Last negs
looked like about 1890s, and no hint of the trees in pix of the house.
So these 4-5 foot diam oaks grew up in 75 years or so. Different breed,
so maybe live oak is larger. Once they outlast a human, we assign some
pretty big ages.

Bill

[geargnasher]

x101Airborne is doing just fine, as is his family.

Gear

[MtGun44]

Good grief! I'm going to have to be more careful about checking dates on original posts!

This thing is several years old.

Bill

[Just Duke]

x101Airborne is doing just fine, as is his family.

Gear

That's really good to hear Gear. Glad he's still vertical.

[Just Duke]

Good grief! I'm going to have to be more careful about checking dates on original posts!

This thing is several years old.

Bill

And just a flash in time at my age.

[waynem34]

God bless live oaks.