Cream of Wheat Basics

[H.Callahan]

Ok, I don't know exactly which forum to put this in, so I defaulted here.

I have seen a ton of references to using Cream of Wheat (hereafter referred to as CoW) in reloading. I've seen it claimed that it works better than a gas check, prevents leading, will clean out a leaded barrel, will fireform brass (not sure if this is with or without a bullet), can be used in shotshells to adjust the powder/wad/projectile stack to get good crimps, can be used for making blanks and able to increase one's manhood by several inches (ok, maybe not the last one... :-P)

I have never seen good guidelines on how to use CoW, how much to use, the precautions (I have seen mention of it raising pressure when used) needed when using it or what it can or can not actually do.

Since I have never used it, I think it is time you guys schooled me in the use of this stuff.

[rockrat]

I , personally , use grits instead. More like granulated plastic, (Grex)

[fcvan]

DH, I have not used COW but have used corn meal - same concept. CM used as a filler for Black Powder is quite common to compress the load and ensure positive ignition. BP does not do well with air gaps and so most cartridges or cap and ball revolvers are seated to compress. Shooting 30 grains of black is similar to shooting 25 with filler.

That being said, I recently began loading .45 Colt with Unique and CM for the very reasons you listed. I had done it with BP and wanted to try. I'm shooting a Ruger Vaquero and an H&R 1871 Classic Carbine, both of which can take higher pressures. I wasn't getting any leading with other loads but I did want to see how the filler affected the standard deviation of my loads.

I have shot rather stout loads through both the Vaquero and the Carbine, well in excess of 10 grains of Unique. I tried 8.5 Grains of Unique with filler and it worked marvelously. These rounds were comparable in performance with the 10 grain loads. Unfortunately, the chronograph wasn't cooperating so I do not have data to share. I will try another day.

There were no obvious pressure signs such as flattened primers, and the cases ejected from the chambers with ease. The bores were clean as a whistle whereas the 10 grain loads left visible residue. The CM no doubt seals and cleans the bore with each shot and I surmise the higher pressure is helping the Unique to burn better.

The interesting kicker was with regard to smoke. My home made loob is a basic bees wax/paraffin/STP mix from this website. It is very soft and has been working quite well for my tastes. However, it does smoke a little bit. With the corn meal filler it was like shooting copper jackets. I suspect the loob is burning some without filler but the CM prevents the loob from hot gas exposure.

Cleanup of the bores was accomplished with a dry patch. The soot was minimal and the bore still had a fine coating of loob. I'm hooked as the experience was extremely satisfying. I will be using a lot more filler in the future. Frank

[Elkins45]

I've used cornmeal instead for fire forming bottlenecks cases with no bullet. For 243 I used 10 grains of Unique and filled the case to the top with meal, then held it vertical and fired.

Oh---be sure to do this outside, and you have to scrub the chamber every few rounds or the form will bake into the shoulder area.

[rintinglen]

COW was widely used in cast-boolit shooting in the 50's and sixties as a filler to hold the smaller charges of powder in place against the primer. Proponents claimed more consistent combustion and better accuracy.

However, in the 70's numerous reports of over-pressure events resulting in damaged firearms were accumulated. Rifles exhibiting ringed chambers were resulting from loads well under recognized maximums. E. H. Harrison and others at the NRA ran a careful investigation and determined that in certain instances, especially in bottle necked cases, it was possible for the grains of ground wheat to bind together and create a sort of dam in the bottle neck, momentarily preventing the burning powder gases from expanding into the rifle bore resulting in an over-pressure event in the chamber and occasionally bulging the chambers. The NRA consequently recommended that COW not be used as a filler.

However, in straight walled cases, many people continue to use COW as a filler to reduce powder movement and many allege that they have done so with only positive results. Should you choose to do so, remember that the weight of the COW needs to be considered when formulating the powder charge. A 300 grain boolit with a 25 grain COW filler needs to be considered as if it were a 325 grain boolit and the powder charge adjusted accordingly.

Personnally, I came into reloading cast-boolits for rifles well after the vogue for COW was in decline.
For fillers, I have only used tufts of various fibers, such as dacron, kapok, cotton or my current favorite, Bamboo. I have primarily used them in my 45-70 but have been working with a 38-55 Marlin cowboy recently where I also find them to be of service.

[DanM]

I regularly use COW as a filler over imr4350 or similar slow powders that normally want full case loads. Also use magnum primers with these slow powders. To keep everything consistent, I always fill the cases to the top of the neck with the COW when working up loads, and compress with the boolit. Loads are usually about 2/3 case full of powder topped with the COW in medium rifle cases. I usually end up with an accurate load at 1900fps or higher that burns clean with a low SD. Have tested with grits and cornmeal and got very similar results. Not for everyone, but it works for me. With faster powders, I use dacron fill.....

[303Guy]

Please enlighten us. That sounds interesting!

I started using wheat bran because of its fibrous nature, light weight and compressibility. Others have reported improved accuracy using it. I did find some residue in the cases with small charges of shotgun powder and once I found a ring of the stuff under the shoulder in a fired case. I then got the bright idea of trying wheat germ because it is oily, lighter and much easier to meter and get into the case. It seems to work better but is less abrasive to crud than wheat bran but still leaves the bore clean and I haven't found any residue of it in the cases. It also raises pressure less.

I did try Grits (CM) and it did clean the bore but it also embedded into the base of soft alloy boolits which were being cupped on firing and it did raise pressure considerably. I consider it more suited to straight walled cases (no experience in that).

I won't be trying CoW any time soon because of what I've heard about it. Wheat Bran also has a drawback in so far as it feeds silk spinning bugs which clumps it so it needs to be heat sterilised and dried and sieved before using. I still like it though. Wheat germ can also feed bugs but is less prone and it doesn't seem to absorb moisture, being oily. (The oil does not weep out and contaminate the powder that I can make out). It's also quite consistent in flake size.

[Longwood]

I won't go into details. but I almost destroyed a Remington XP-100 with COW in a bottle neck case.
I had too pound the bolt open with a mallet.
I use it in straight cases but "NEVER AGAIN" in a bottle neck case.

[Longwood]

In big straight cases, I would imagine that some types of sawdust would work well.

I hear that paper will polish a bore so a clean, sifted to an even size, low sap content sawdust may do just fine.

[rintinglen]

Bamboo fiber as sold at Joanne's is sold in a huge bag for quilters.Itischeapandthespacekeyjustquitworking

[.22-10-45]

Hello, everyone, I was using CoW in a .25-25 Stevens. Cases were RCM (turned from solid)..this could have been part of problem..light toolmarks in case neck might have caught CoW. At any rate, I was using straight black powder..some cases were found to be stretched 1/16"! Had on break & stick in chamber. This is a long, straight case..NEVER again! I have since tried Puff-Lon, with good results.

[shadowcaster]

I find this information to be interesting. While reading this post I thought that maybe a brown rice ground up in the blender would make a good filler. It grinds up nicely.. this I've done. It's light weight, fibrous, hard, doesn't absorb moisture quickly. Has anyone tried this? Maybe it will become the new filler? Just a thought.

Shad

[1Shirt]

I would never use COW/grits, etc in a bottleneck case. Fine in straight cases like 45-70 etc. However, much prefer to use Dac as a filler, and there is vitrually no factor of increased weight to consider with Dac.
1Shirt!

[PAT303]

I've shot thousands of 303 rounds with wheat germ filler,it works very well. Pat

[303Guy]

I've shot thousands of 303 rounds with wheat germ filler,it works very well. PatThere you have it.

I am still testing Dacron to protect the boolit bases and it does seem to work well with softer alloys. I use wheat germ when I want more of a bulk filler to reduce free case space and raise chamber pressure for a slower powder.

[geargnasher]

I don't use COW in bottleneck cases because I live in a humid enviroment and the stuff can set up solid like concrete in stored ammo after a while. Toasting it to dehydrate before using is supposed to fix that, but I found it easier to just go with the various poly shot buffers and use the one that best suits the shape of the case, expansion ratio, and what I plan to do with the load. Cereal fillers are great with straightwall cases of all sorts, and indeed keep the heat and pressure off the boolit base which preserves the lube in the grooves and scours the bore clean each shot. Compacting fillers also act like a sabot behind the boolit, keeping the gas off the base at muzzle exit which can improve performance in guns with damaged crowns or plain-based boolits whose base edges tend to get a little distorted at launch. Lots of good reasons to use a solid filler behind a boolit. The technique isn't always an improvement, but it's a good too to use, or should I say "tool SET" because the class of compacting fillers is broad, and small differences in the way a filler works can have a big effect on accuracy. One might need a variety of different granular fillers for different applications, or at least that's what I have found.

Gear

[Jim]

Gear, you ever tried using kapok (http://www.bamboofiber.com/.sc/ms/bdd/ee/103/Kapok%20Fiber) in bottlenecks? There's an article in Castpics on it.

[PAT303]

With my 303 loads I put the powder in and simply fill to the top with WG and seat the boolit,like I posted I have shot thousands of them with powders from AR2207(H4198) through to AR2213SC,I don't know what Hodgden call that in the states. Pat

[curator]

CoW has the advantage of compressing into a near-solid behind the bullet when used as a filler. This can be a problem with bottle-neck cases but not usually with straight-wall cases. Some cases like .22 Hornet, .303 british and .35 Whelen have minimal shoulders and have not caused over pressure signs (for me) when CoW is used. CoW can work as a gas-check/seal behind cast boolits that are under bore size, preventing leading and giving good accuracy. CoW works great for reduced loads with black powder in straight-walled cases giving good accuracy, clean burning, and reducing or eliminating leading. CoW fillered loads will quickly scrub a leaded or slightly rusty bore squeaky clean.

From my experience it is unexcelled for use in Cap & Ball revolvers where accuracy requires reduced loads but the ball needs to be loaded close to the cylinder face. Reenactors use CoW as a compressible but frangible wad when loading blanks in these C&B revolvers. A half-measure of CoW on top of the powder charge in a muzzle loading rifle will prevent patch burn-out and give greater accuracy if the patch/ball combination is not perfect for the gun. It also works great for fireforming brass such as making .410 shotshells from .30-40 Krag or .458 WinMag from 7mmRem Mag cases. I routeenely use it to "lift" and cushion a .69 caliber round ball loaded in 12 Ga. plastic shotshells so I can get a good crimp.

There differences in the makeup of various CoW offerings. Only the "old fashioned" original not the microwave blends work as described. Generic "Farina" cereal is the same as Original CoW. It will not absorb atmospheric humidity in sealed cartridges, but might in poorly crimped shotshells. So, CoW is not magic but used correctly it is a valuable tool for the knowledgeable reloader.

[Maven]

H. Callahan, Ken Mollohan (Molly on this site), one of the founders of the Cast Bullet Assoc., has written many articles on COW loads. Here's a place to start: http://search.yahoo.com/search?ei=utf-8&fr=slv8-adbe&p=COW%20Loads%2c%20Ken%20Mollohan

[PAT303]

I'm curious to why everyone is worried about the filler going hard?,the 303 was originaly loaded with black powder that was loaded into the case before the shoulder was sized forming a solid clump of BP,I see the filler being forced down the neck as being no different than the boolit being slugged into the bore. Pat

[mdi]

My question regarding COW, or other similar fillers, is can the COW migrate into the powder charge and effect the combustion? Produce squibs?

[geargnasher]

I'm curious to why everyone is worried about the filler going hard?,the 303 was originaly loaded with black powder that was loaded into the case before the shoulder was sized forming a solid clump of BP,I see the filler being forced down the neck as being no different than the boolit being slugged into the bore. Pat

BP will burn out, the COW won't if so much is used that it creates a logjam. Also, lead has a consistent hardness and will, if all else fails, extrude through a reduced hole. The cereal fillers can reach the compaction point very quickly where they are harder than lead, and jam more tightly the more the pressure builds.

Gear

[45 2.1]

I don't use COW in bottleneck cases because I live in a humid enviroment and the stuff can set up solid like concrete in stored ammo after a while. Toasting it to dehydrate before using is supposed to fix that, but I found it easier to just go with the various poly shot buffers and use the one that best suits the shape of the case, expansion ratio, and what I plan to do with the load. Gear

The problem there is that the COW absorbs moisture from the air in the cartridge as well as moisture from the powder. That in turn induces a harsher, hotter burn from the powder with all the problems associated with it.


BP will burn out, the COW won't if so much is used that it creates a logjam. Also, lead has a consistent hardness and will, if all else fails, extrude through a reduced hole. The cereal fillers can reach the compaction point very quickly where they are harder than lead, and jam more tightly the more the pressure builds. Gear

As many times as that has been said, it needs repeated at intervals so everyone sees it. A little can be good.... too much really causes problems (and that problem amount varies with case size and geometry).

[303Guy]

Some cases like .22 Hornet, .303 british and .35 Whelen have minimal shoulders ...This true but many 303 Brits have a 'modified' chamber producing a rather sharp inner edge to the neck. I've had filler form a residual ring there. Wheat germ seams to me to be the best of the cereal fillers but lacks the 'abrasive' cleaning properties of bran and corn meal.

Something I've observed is that cereal fillers tend to hollow the boolit bases. Now I've just realized why - it's the 'log-jamb' effect. Pressure from the rear forces the filler to exert a lateral pressure which grips the case walls (and similarly the bore) and this causes the centre of the column to extrude forward of the sides. :idea: Grits forms a plug in that hollow which stays there right to the target sometimes (soft alloy). Dacron produced a flatter boolit base. The boolit itself can grip the bore and throat to cup the base.

[leadman]

I use COW only for fireforming with no bullet/boolit. I use the poly-fil/dacron if I need a filler in a case.

[ClydeK]

I use CoW over top of 18 grains IMR4227 in a Colt .45 case and a 200 grain Keith style semi wad cutter and I love the accuracy and consistency. I fill the remaining case space with CoW after the powder is in so it's a compressed load.
Recently I encountered a raised primer in a shell and had cause to use a kinetic bullet puller to remove the bullet from the case to safely seat the primer.
After the bullet was freed from the case and rattling around inside the puller I observed the CoW was packed so tightly inside the case it was solid. It didn't leave the case with the puller impact and would not fall out until I used a small pocket knife to loosen it up and even then fell free in chunks.
As said, "in a straight walled case this is not an issue", but in a necked cartridge it is wholly understandable how the pressures could be raised to unsafe or dangerous levels in a necked cartridge. I for one would never use compressed filler of any sort that might set up like concrete behind the neck of a rifle cartridge.

[Harry O]

I won't go into details. but I almost destroyed a Remington XP-100 with COW in a bottle neck case.
I had too pound the bolt open with a mallet.
I use it in straight cases but "NEVER AGAIN" in a bottle neck case.

I used to use COW in straight case cartridges. One time I had to dismantle some that had been loaded for many years. The COW was a solid clump. A HARD solid clump. The COW was stored in a cereal box in the basement with my reloading supplies. I think that it absorbed a little bit of moisture and hardened when compressed. I decided right then and there never to use it again.

On the rare occasions that I need a filler, I now use plastic shotgun buffer. I have dismantled a few cases with this after being loaded about a year and it somewhat (slightly) clumps together, but it is not a solid mass. As was said by someone else, you need to compress the filler. If you don't, the filler and powder will mix with handling and give hangfires or failure-to-fires. Been there, done that. Filler is somewhat of a risk no matter what you use.

[gon2shoot]

I never much cared for the idea of added fiber in my loads. I would prefer to build a different load or just use a little Ex-lax for lube.

[Scharfschuetze]

At one time I experimented with CoW in the 45/70. My goal was to reduce extreme velocity spreads when using smokeless powder to duplicate the original US Army black powder infantry load of a 405 grain boolit at 1,300 fps for long range shooting out to 900 and 1,000 yards in original Trapdoor rifles.

While the chronograph indicated some success, I noted that my cases were only lasting two to three loads when using the CoW. The cases were separating forward of the web, much like belted magnum cases or the 303 British cases do when the shoulders are set back too much when sizing.

Needless to say, I concluded that the cost of the cases was not worth the small improvement in ballistic uniformity. My only guess as to the separations is that the CoW was gripping the case walls momentarily on ignition due to pressure and pulled the brass slightly forward before it was ejected down the barrel with the rest of the ejecta from ignition.