Annealing cases in lead

[Goatwhiskers]

Good a place as any for my question. I have read somewhere about holding cases in molten lead to heat for annealing. Anyone care to comment on proper technique? Goat

[gray wolf]

I believe that brass will soften when heated to 625 or 650* the trick is not to soften
the case head. that's the reason for dunking in water, it stops the transfer of heat from the neck to the case head.
That said you can anneal in hot lead, but the neck must reach the correct temp
while not heating the case head. To just hold the case in the lead with fingers is a hit and miss, not that it can't be done. But how accurate is it ? anyone's guess.
There are temp crayons that can be used and a liquid called Temp lack.
They change color when the desired temp is reached, you purchase them for the temp you want. Remember, just a quick dunk in the lead does not mean the brass is up to temp. It has to have a short time to heat soak, how long ??
well that's why it's a guess unless done right.
However many folks will say it works fine with the lead at a certain temp and a short count while holding the case with fingers.
Many cases are ruined from over heating.
That's what I know about it.

[MBTcustom]

I do this. It works. I cant speak to the accuracy of it, but I know that the necks are softer when I'm done, and the heads never got hot enough to cause any damage because I was holding them with my fingers. It does help to lube the necks with something to keep trash from sticking to them. Just dip them in the molten lead until you start to feel some uncomfortable heat in your fingers. Quickly, dunk in water.
The thing about lead annealing is that it is a simple way to get the neck to the exact temperature that you are after. Any torch is just too hot to do the job correctly, unless you have some way to control the time that the case neck is in contact with the flame exactly. I tried heating the cases with a torch and just watching the color of the necks, but this is very difficult to master, there is no margin for error, and I got varying softness in the necks of my brass one side to the other.
Lead annealing is messy, but gives me a measure of control that I can't get with any other method.

[popper]

It works. I used the tempilaq to double check. I dunked 30-30 case neck into the melt, held with pliers on the head. I didn't time it. The melt will harden on the neck and then melt off, that's when I pulled the case. NO color change but did the plier test to verify annealing took place. Others have suggested dipping the neck into motor mica first, I don't have any. I wasn't using pure so I needed to pick off melt from a few, came off real easy. Reloaded those cases several times - full power- no problems.
I had the same results as goodsteel when using the MAPP torch.

[Wayne Smith]

I take one case, dunk it in the molten lead up to the shoulder while doing a slow count in my head. When my fingers get very uncomfortable I pull it out and drop it. Then I take a large pair of forceps and hold the rest of the cases in the lead the same way to the same slow count. Not accurate enough for a chemist but does the job.

[adrians]

i must have been living in a cave cos i had'nt heard or thought of doing this , i like it .
Kill two birds with one stone ,,, cast and anneal ,,,, great .

thanks. :-)

[MBTcustom]

Could be worse, this was me before I found castboolits.com
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvXqm0RdJms
"Rick" thinks that you cant shoot lead out of a Glock pistol.:twisted:

[rockrat]

I do what Wayne does. I do it after firing, leaving in the primer and sooty case necks. Helps lead to not stick to the neck

[runfiverun]

http://www.6mmbr.com/annealing.html
after reading this.
the lahsc sight also has an article,they both agree.

[Longwood]

A while back i read here that if the lead has tin, it can act like solder and stick to the cases.
Word is to use pure lead with zero tin.

[geargnasher]

If the cases are dirty, like Rockrat said, the lead won't stick.

This process is usually referred to as "drawing", as in a less extreme version of annealing. You can make the necks just slightly softer, just enough to prevent splits, without ruining the proper hardness of the necks doing it this way rather than the flame trick because you can control the heat better. The flame just puts too much heat to things too fast for a light drawing. You don't want them soft, just not so hard they split.

Gear

[calaloo]

A couple of weeks ago I was in a store that sells surplus everything. They had a pile of soldering pencils that developed a temperature of 800 degrees. I didn't buy one because I have all the soldering tools I need. BUT, after thinking about it a bit I started wondering-- what if you made a stub to replace the soldering tip that was a snug fit in the case mouth. You could watch the color slowly creep up the brass. What do you think, good idea or not?

[popper]

I thought of that also but don't have the large iron. I don't think it will work well due to the fitting and expansion in the neck. Unless using the flame, I haven't seen ANY color change. If someone has done it and it works, let us know please.

[runfiverun]

i have seen an electric annealer somewhere.
can't remember what it was called b airc it was on the u-tube.
all you need is consistent heat.
time is not the factor a micro-second or a minute makes no difference.
temperature is.
all you are doing is re aligning the molecules.
lapua had a real good article about annealing sometime ago explaining why they use the brass they do and their entire annealing processes from disc to completed case.
airc they have something like 6 different annealed zones on their cases from hard to soft.

[popper]

Yes, that one was a 'small hair dryer' type and doesn't control temp very well. Other makes are like the old dip-in coffee/tea heaters. Temp control problems again. Case manufacture has many annealing steps.

[blackthorn]

Annealing case necks by dipping them into molten lead that is held at about seven hundred degree ‘F’ works well. Wheel weight alloy, which is approximately eighty nine parts lead, one part tin and ten parts antimony, melts at six hundred and nineteen degrees ‘F’ so you can safely set your lead alloy temperature at seven hundred degrees ‘F’. The use of a thermometer will take any guesswork out of the process. The reason for using lead for annealing is to keep the temperature low enough for proper uniform annealing, and that is simply not possible using the torch method. With a torch the case is often heated on one side more than the other, temperatures are not readily repeatable from case to case, and in falling over into the water, one side is quenched before the other.

To minimize the likelihood of lead ‘soldering’ itself to the brass case it is best to use as close to pure lead as possible (although any lead alloy will work). With respect to annealing cases using molten lead, basically you: set the thermostat on your pot at seven hundred to eight hundred degrees ‘F’ pick up each case by the head and dip the neck of the cases about a quarter-inch into some powdered graphite or light oil (vegetable oil is fine). The oil keeps lead from sticking to the brass but, any lead that does stick is easily removed by a quick twist in steel wool while the case is still hot. Anneal your cases with the fired primers left in, as that forms an airlock that keeps lead away from the inside of the case. Shake off any excess oil, dip the neck, shoulder, and about a quarter-inch of the case body into the molten lead and just as you begin to feel an uncomfortable degree of heat in your finger tips, drop the case into water. If you hold the cases in some other way than with your bare fingers, leave them in the molten lead from eight to twelve, but not more than fifteen seconds. When the case is hot enough that the lead does not cling to it, it is annealed. Pull the case up out of the lead, tap on the side of the case to remove any bits of lead (if the lead is really sticking, the case isn't annealed!), then drop it mouth down (straight) into a container that is mostly full of ice water. Following the anneal, it would be wise to closely inspect the inside of the case both visually and with a bent paper clip to make sure there are no lead drippings adhering to the inside the case.

If you are left-handed, have the cases on the right side, the lead in the middle, and the ice water on the left. The cases go only one direction, to the left, and you use only one hand. If you are right handed, reverse the set-up. Because it only takes a few seconds per case, you can anneal hundreds of cases in an hour with this method. After the annealing process, remove the cases from the water, shake them out and use a piece of bronze wool to clean the annealed portion. This removes any residual lead and/or burned oil. Then, dry and tumble the cases to remove any oil traces and they are ready to process.