Worn out nipple? Poll

[Tatume]

When do you consider a nipple to be worn out and ready for replacement?

[fishhawk]

Oh I am not going to touch this one with a 10 FT pole! :bigsmyl2:

[Mooseman]

Used to be you could get 2 nipples for a dime.......

[gnoahhh]

When the nipple starts to get mushroomed which for me usually happens before any internal dimensions are altered from use. If you're getting enough blowback to raise the hammer back to half-cock, I am inclined to think perhaps your charge is too much, or maybe due to a cheap poorly designed nipple. I suppose a nipple can get eroded out and allow some blowback too, but it never happened to me because I'm pretty scrupulous about cleaning my nipples so rust doesn't eat them away, and I shoot relatively mild charges all the time. I switch out steel nipples for beryllium alloy ones whenever I can, too. Never tried a stainless steel one.

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

when it starts to mushroom or your having difficulty getting a cap on

i had one that you could get the cap on but not seated , the first strike of the hammer would seat it the second would set it off, nipple change and back to firing on the first strike

[mold maker]

Jeff Foxworthey's BIL had his removed by a beaver,,,,, O that was another tale.

[405]

I voted but my no means is it a hard and fast rule. Too many variables like basic design of lock and hammer, weight of charge, weight of bullet, granulation of charge, etc. I always remove the nipple during cleaning and inspect (eyeball) the hole in the base for erosion. Usually, if I start noticing increased blow back of BP powder & smoke and frags of cap blowing off then it may be time to replace nipple. BTW, I much prefer a very tiny flash hole in the nipple to begin with for both regular #11 nipples and even musket nipples.

[waksupi]

Only when the vent gets enlarged. If there is mushrooming, someone has most likely been dry firing the rifle. Take the nipple out, chuck it in a drill, and turn it down with a file and sandpaper until there is a proper fit. I hate to see pilgrims that won't do this simple thing, to make their rifles dependable. Always the same ones on the range, and apparently they think they aren't capable of the fix, or are too damn lazy to do it. Lots more misfires with cap locks on the range, than flintlocks, for this reason.

[Hickory]

I use flint & frizzen to make it go bang.

[Maven]

Although I have extra nipples on hand, I've only had to replace one on my Mowrey rifle. It began to mushroom after 20+ yrs. of use, typically with charges of <90gr. FFg, but I fixed it as per Waksupi's suggestion. While it worked well enough (no misfires), I got a bit of blowback and cap debris in my face. (Good thing I was wearing shooting glasses or some of that would have been in my eyes!) The problem was an enlarged flashhole at the top of the nipple. After cleaning the rifle, I immediately installed a new one.

[Omnivore]

I'll let you know if and when I ever replace one. If current trends are any indication, that day will never come, so you'll have to ask my grandkids. Or their grandkids, if you happen to live that long yourself...

Well now I did replace some pistol nipples, but that was for the Treso design and for a better fit with the Remington #10 caps. The originals were in perfect shape when I took them out. After switching to the smaller flash holes, and reducing the cylinder gap, my Colt pistol now makes a "crack" instead of a "woof".

[idahoron]

If I see problems with my groups for no reason The first thing I look at is the nipple.
I normally will replace them when they cock the gun to half cock. At that point my groups are probably suffering some what. I always put a new nipple on before hunting season. I shoot it only a few times to make sure the sight in is still there and hunt with it until the season is over. I replace nipples about 3 times a year. Ron

[Boerrancher]

After switching to the smaller flash holes, and reducing the cylinder gap, my Colt pistol now makes a "crack" instead of a "woof".

Wait, Colt pistol designs are supposed to woof... I think you broke it[smilie=1:

I only have had to replace the nipple on one rifle, and I think there was something wrong with it. It was an old old CVA I believe, and it wouldn't hit a 9 inch pie tin at 100 yards with a normal load, but with 120 grains on a PRB it would nearly cut bullet holes at that same distance. 50 to 70 grains and you couldn't keep them on a 2ft square paper at 100 yards. Needless to say, It didn't take many shots even shooting PRBs to burn out a nipple, and have the hammer being blown back to half cock. After a couple times of nipple changing, I got rid of the gun. Some poor sap had to have it, and offered me more money than I paid for it. He said he could fix the problem and make it shoot with a normal charge. I had had many of the finest ML smiths around the state look at it, and they couldn't fix it. I moved a few months after I sold it, so I don't know what happened with it.

Best wishes,

Joe

[DIRT Farmer]

About once a year on my double guns. It becomes hard to concentrate on the second target when the thing bites your arm and it is to hot to wear long sleaves in the summer.

I replace touch hole liners at about the same rate, it helps matain reliableaty and cuts down on flash in the pan.

As waksupi said it helps on the speed of the match and is a safety concern.

[AR-15 Cowboy]

I do it when they start to mushroom. I didn't know about redoing the vent holes like Waksupi suggests, but I will try that now that I know.

[Lonegun1894]

The only one I have ever had to replace was one that came with my CVA St. Louis Hawken when I bought it new. It had reliability issues from the start, and me not knowing enough at that time to try Waksupi's method, I replaced it. I use a PRB with 70grs FFFg in this .50 rifle and have been through several 1K cases of caps with this rifle since and have had no issues of any kind since replacing the nipple. Several years ago, I saw the light and have been slowly converting my collection of caplocks into flinters, but this being my first ML it will probably stay with me.

[.22-10-45]

Hello, everyone. Years ago, I had worked up a very accurate 50yd. round ball load for a Thompson Center Seneca .36 cap lock. This was designed for Squirrels so charge was only
25grs. 3FG (used the imported Curtis & Harvey from Hodgdons due to B.P. shortage then).
This load would group 5 in one ragged hole. Then, one day the accuracy went south..I tried everything..larger ball..smaller ball..differen't patching..thickness, material, lube. varied powder charges & grain size. Finally, I attended a state shoot and an older buckskinner asked me when I last changed the nipple? These were stainless.. It really didn't look too bad...but it was worn oversize enough to vary velocity...New nipple & accuracy returned!

[Lonegun1894]

Gents,
Tatume was gracious enough to inform me that my previous post could be taken several ways and I didn't notice that he was absolutely correct until I re-read it. What I meant was that I have fired several thousand shots through this rifle with this same nipple and accuracy has not deteriorated in the least. I know for a fact that this rifle has had at least 5 thousand shots through it with this nipple, because that is how many 1K packages of caps I went through when it was my only caplock, but I have since purchased several other caplocks and no record was kept of which gun was used with how many caps, so I will have to stand by 5K+ shots. I have since mostly moved on to flinters, but the caplocks occasionally get to come out and play. As little range time as they get now, I dont see me wearing one out, but it will be the first thing I check if/when accuracy goes south eventually. I do have extra nipples sitting in a drawer just in case, just haven't had a reason to change them yet. The other caplocks are a new CVA Squirrel .32 which has had 3-400 shots through it, and a used Indian made SxS 13ga which I replaced the nipples on as soon as I bought it because they looked like someone had been dry-firing them and one was clogged. I dont know how many shots the SxS had before I got it, but I dont think it has had 100 since it's lived here as my flint 28ga does most of what I need a hunting shotgun for.

Anyway, I appreciate Tatume pointing out how my post could have a double meaning as that was not my intention, and I apologize if I caused any confusion.

[405]

OK just to throw some hard numbers out there. I just measured the flash channel ID of an original '63 musket nipple taken from a gun that had not been shot alot. The flash channel ID measured .055" and that is probably about what many of the older muskets had. That size seems way too big and does allow a bunch of excess blow-back with the standard 60 gr service charge. The channel in my new replacement musket nipple for that gun measures .025". The three original muskets I shoot are all fitted with that same new musket nipple and I have zero ignition problems with standard CCI musket caps and it greatly minimizes blow-back.

All my other caplocks have the #11 nipple and likewise I use nipples with the small flash channel, standard CCI #11 caps and have zero problems.

[mooman76]

I have replaced a few but have never worn one out. The ones I replaced were on used MLs I bought that weren't the best either from abuse or weren't that good to start with. I think the older ones when they first started remaking MLs back in the 70's were pretty soft, that is the ones on the cheap remakes.

[451 Pete]

There are a lot of variables that contribute to mipple wear. These include the material that the nipple is made from, the type and quantity of the powder charge and the projectile type and weight. A heavy powder charge shooting a large bullet will wear a nipple much faster than a light charge and a small round ball.
When I remove the nipple for cleaning after shooting I always check the flash hole at the bottom of the nipple. If it shows any noticable wear or enlargement it is replaced. I always try and keep a few new spares around.

just my thoughts .... Pete

[KCSO]

All right a brand new Ampco nipple has a # 75 number drill size hole. In 100 yard testing when working with our cross stick guns years ago we found that by the time the nipple had eroded to a #50 hole it was throwing shots. By the time your hammer is coming back you are way too big. We didn't have high speed cameras but we reasoned that after getting close to a 50 hole the hammer was moving enough to case minor deviation in gas leakage. The groups willl open up with stringing. For hunting large game at close range you can get by with a slightly worn, say 57-50 hole but for absolute best target accuracy you want the same diameter hole that you sighted the rifle in with or under 60 drill size.

With a flintlock I start with a #50 drill for a touchhole liner and replace it once it is over a 1/16th.

[59sharps]

one a year. or when the flash hole starts to inlarge.

[firefly1957]

I have not replaced a nipple since I started using a Knight hot shot stainless steel nipples these nipples were colored red and have 1/4-28 threads . I did cause a range officer a fright with that red color as he thought I was capping at the loading bench! The color is gone now but it took some time.

[Good Cheer]

I've never had a hammer go to half cock.
For hunting it is good to have a larger hole for the reliability. It is very important to have caps popping through with great force after cleaning. So, a big hole can be a good thing. Sitting at the bench it's not a big deal if she goes pop and no boom.

[405]

No arguing that a larger hole may be more reliable, but never tested if for sure. I hunt with a completely clean and dry gun so fouling in the flash channel is no issue. It does become an issue on occassion at the range- then it's just a matter of cleaning at the range and starting again.

I just thought of a couple more reasons I like a small hole and limited blow back. 1) I shoot a few old originals and a large hole with lots of blow back really eats away at wood and finish and it puts a lot more fouling into lock parts and under the barrel. 2) When shooting a flinter I know that there is going to be lots of "action" before the ball leaves but with a caplock all that stuff blowing out, including in some cases hitting the face, is not good for shooting or flinching.

[Tom-ADC]

From another board; this writer says he has never worn a nipple out or broke one:

"What on earth did you take the darned nipples out for in the first place? All you needed to do was boil the cylinder in water, and the entire cylinder would have been squeaky clean, nipples and all! In fract it would have been SURGICALLY
CLEAN! I have shoot black powder pistols for years, and have NEVER removed a nipple in my life! These guys who advocate removing nipples each time they shoot the gun, in my considered opinion are nuts! I had a pair of eight inch barreled Remingtons from 1988, until 2002. That's fourteen years. When my wife disposed of them,they were still giving excellent service, and for at least ten years had been fired regularly about once a week! Screw the other nipples you have already taken out back in,and place the cylinder nipples up in a pan of water,and bring it to the boil! Because the open ends of the chambers will be downward,the water will boil up through the chambers,and because the holes in the nipples are smaller, the hot steam will force out any crud that may be there, and your cylinder will be surgically clean! Removing nipples is a pure waste of time! Once you have removed the cylinder from the water, (Using a stiff piece of wire.) place them nipples upon a double sheet of paper towel, and let them dry. They will be so hot,all moisture will evaporate before any rust can even think of forming! You can reload them with powder, wads, and balls straight away! By the time they are cool enough to handle, they will be ready to reload! There are several members on this forum who will tell you that you should remove them each time you shoot, but as my experience has taught me,this is totally un-necessary! In England,many years ago I had two cap & Ball revolvers,and never removed a nipple on either of them. Try my way, and you will save a Hell of a lot of time! "

[waksupi]

A larger vent is not more reliable, it is less reliable. The idea of the smaller hole, is to constrict the power of the prime charge as it enters the powder channel. The smaller the channel, the hotter and more concentrated the spark is to the charge.
I agree with not removing the nipple every time. I was taught many years ago to not do that, as the threads will eventually wear, needing an oversize nipple to replace it.
I was told to only remove the nipple maybe once a year, to put a new coat of grease on the threads.

[Nobade]

Accuracy starts falling off. With roundball guns they seem to last forever, but bullet firing guns can eat them up as quick as 20 shots.

[izzyjoe]

i changed the nipple on my cva hawken, and the groups went south. i changed it cause it started hang firing, so i'll go back with the other nipple.

[Ragnarok]

the only reasons I've ever replaced nipples are abuse by previous owners..dry-firing for the most part mashing nipples. I did replace a nipple on a CVA caplock for a guy who allowed it to rust in place then twisted it off..

[waksupi]

i changed the nipple on my cva hawken, and the groups went south. i changed it cause it started hang firing, so i'll go back with the other nipple.

That isn't the nipple. You have breech fouling. Scrape and soak it clean. Proper maintenance cures 95% of ML problems.

[Coffeecup]

Except for ROAs, I replace the nipples with Ampcos, and replace them when they start to enlarge. Enlarge how much I couldn't tell you; I made my field gauge by gluing a numbered bit in a handle about 30 years ago--maybe a dozen sizes over the original size. Its been a long time . . . .