ROA Boolits

[rodwha]

I'm looking for a good hunting boolits to use in this Ruger, both commercially available, and when the time comes, a mould.
I want to be able to use the loading ram on the gun and not have to load on a press. And that will sit straight.
I could go with the 220 grn Lee conical mould, but would prefer a flat nose I believe.
I certainly like the price of Lee moulds and wonder if it's really worth 3x the price for another brand? I certainly don't want to detract much from my beer brewing supplies!
I must say that I'm chompin' at the bit to get to a range!

[Omnivore]

You can get practically anything you want at Accurate Molds ('cept hollowpoints);
http://www.accuratemolds.com/

I've gotten good results with the Lee 200 in my Remington. The Buffalo bullets for percussion revolvers are good also, assuming you can find them to fit the larger chambered Ruger.

In the meantime you can always shoot regular ball.

[rodwha]

Do you hunt with those 200 grainers?
I have several 190 grain conicals that I was given, but it seems a bit on the light side were I to use it on a hog, of which there are plenty around. And I also feel that a flat nose design would be better.
From what I understand a ball is all that's needed for deer, especially the little ones we have down here.

[tacklebury]

I use 200 gr. RNFP, .457 Round Balls and 255 gr. RNFP. The 200 grainers are my best accuracy wise with 35 gr. FFFg BP.

[rodwha]

My cylinders seem to be .451" and the barrel .450".
Ruger states to use .454" bullets and the mold for the Old Army drops them at .456".
I have read of people using bullets meant for 45 Colt/ACP that measure out .452", or that use the smaller conicals meant for the repros. Maybe not so much of a problem until you get into stouter loads that may jump the boolits out a bit?
It seems like it might be quite the struggle to seat .454-.456" boolits into a .450-.451" chamber.

On Midway's sight I read that Remington's 250 LRN has been successfully used, though many dislike the lube. Anyone use commercially available boolits that they'd recommend?

777 seems to be the most potent substitute. Any others that are significantly higher energy and less fouling than BP?

As I understand it a max load with a wad and RB is 45 grains. Correct?

[Tar Heel]

Don't know if this is too late to help much but I just wrote a paper on using conical bullets in the ROA. The summary was that RB's are more accurate, easier to load, impact closer to the regulated sight and allow much higher muzzle velocity. The Lee 220gr conical bullet that "was made for the ROA" is total BS. The bullet does NOT have a tapered or recessed base. It casts at .456 and will NOT seat in alignment with the chamber bore. Sizing them first removes any lube groove present. I was not happy at all with the conical bullets. Powder charges must be drastically reduced to get them seated as well. Send me an email and I'll send you the article in PDF form if you are interested.

I hesitate to post it since all the pictures I had posted earlier made their way off this site and onto 10 zillion other sites. I was not too happy about that. Perhaps the admins can tighten security some??

[rodwha]

Email sent!
Thanks!

[rodwha]

Finally able to make it out to the range yesterday.
I ended up bending my base pin as I obviously forgot to screw the retaining screw in place. Grrrr! I didn't even get to seat the first ball. I was able to bend it back, but am concerned it may give me problems down the road.

[rodwha]

My chambers measure .450-.451". I'm curious what you think about casting .452" bullets or resizing cast .454" bullets to .452". With a heavier bullet there would most likely be a good portion in contact with the chamber walls.

I'd question the use of Lee's 200 grn conical as they claim it's .450". I have some 190 grn conicals that a guy sent me to try out. I'm not certain what mould they are from. They start easy but are a little larger.

[bubbapug1]

I hesitate to post it since all the pictures I had posted earlier made their way off this site and onto 10 zillion other sites. I was not too happy about that. Perhaps the admins can tighten security some??

Its the internet, and once its posted its public domain unless you stipulate otherwise, and even than most folks don't respect copyright law.

I would be interested in seeing the PDF's I just bought a ROA two days ago, and your findings seem to agree with the writers of the book "PERCUSSION REVOVLERS" who also state the ROA did best with 0.457 round balls.

[Tar Heel]

My chambers measure .450-.451". I'm curious what you think about casting .452" bullets or resizing cast .454" bullets to .452". With a heavier bullet there would most likely be a good portion in contact with the chamber walls.

I'd question the use of Lee's 200 grn conical as they claim it's .450". I have some 190 grn conicals that a guy sent me to try out. I'm not certain what mould they are from. They start easy but are a little larger.

I used the Lee 456-220-1R conical which they claim has a rebated base which fits the ROA cylinder. It doesn't. It casts at .456 and must be sized down to even think about chambering one in the ROA. I sized them to .452 (which is the exact size of 3 chambers, the other 3 are .451) and lubed them in a RCBS lubrisizer. Not much room for lube after sizing them from .456 to .452. Seated them over 30 grains of Pyrodex-P and used an ox-yoke wad betwixt the powder and ball. The bullets surprisingly did not migrate under recoil but the group was 4 inches at 20 yards.

I'll stick with round balls! Much easier to load, higher velocity if that's what you want, and definitely......definitely...more accurate!

[nicholst55]

Has anyone tried pan lubing the Lee conicals and THEN sizing them down? That should preserve the lube groove - a bit, anyway.

[Tar Heel]

Has anyone tried pan lubing the Lee conicals and THEN sizing them down? That should preserve the lube groove - a bit, anyway.

I don't really see how that would work either. The lube will be wiped and the lube groove will be reduced .004 in depth. Pan lubing -vs- lubrisizing would be the same since the lube grooves get reduced in depth when sizing. The operative word is sized. I think the lubing part is irrelevant when the lube grooves get removed.

When we size "normal" bullets we only should be sizing down .001 to .002 anyway. At the very best, we should be truing up the bullet when lubing it. Lee pan lubing is supposed to eliminate the sizing die anyway. Bullets are supposed to fall from the die at the correct size.

The issue really is starting the bullets true to the axis of the chamber. To accomplish that, the bullet will need to be at chamber diameter. BP projectiles are designed to be oversized and shave some lead from the ball to firmly seat the projectile and assist with cross-fire prevention. Conicals work...just not as well as RB's. Why that is is still one of the great mysteries.

Possible causes are:
Rifling Depth
Twist Rate
Bore to Chamber Variance
Velocity
Bullet Hardness (Softness)
Obturation
Gas Leakage

Jeez....ya got me on a roll darn you.

[smilie=w:

[rodwha]

My chambers measure .450-.451" and would like to now if there is a way to resize the base of a cast bullet so that the base fits easily as it ought to for true seating. Any ideas?

[Tar Heel]

My chambers measure .450-.451" and would like to now if there is a way to resize the base of a cast bullet so that the base fits easily as it ought to for true seating. Any ideas?

Cut to the chase. Send Tom an email. http://www.accuratemolds.com/

[rodwha]

Looks like that's just the way to go Tar Heel. Kinda pricey but you get exactly what you need/want. I'll have to put it on my Christmas list as I don't want to give up my "allowance" for it. I certainly enjoy brewing my beer!

[Tar Heel]

Looks like that's just the way to go Tar Heel. Kinda pricey but you get exactly what you need/want. I'll have to put it on my Christmas list as I don't want to give up my "allowance" for it. I certainly enjoy brewing my beer!

I have often considered having Tom make up a bullet mold with custom dimensions for the ROA. A scan of his available molds will show that others have already beaten us to the punch for their BP revolvers. Look at these:

http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=38-095B-D.png

http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=45-180R-D.png

The latter bullet looks best for the ROA. If you know the chamber throat specs for your revolver, you are in like flint. For about a hundred bucks, Tom can turn you out a real nice mold. He has made several for me for center-fire handguns. I have given serious thought to having him turn out one for the ROA but I would simply use the 45-180R-D he has already made if I were going to do so. The OAL on that bullet is .505 according to Tom at Accurate Molds.

Since I already purchased the Lee mold and have decided to stick with RB for accuracy, the conicals I do shoot are for novelty at this point.

Now I just have to tell ya.....I have spent a hundred bucks on a lot worse so if you are considering this, get yourself a good mold and have some fun.

[Tar Heel]

Here are the Lee 456-220-1R bullets sized to .452 loading into the ROA. I used NRA-ALOX lube in the lubrisizer. Note that .452 is the mouth dimension of 3 of the chambers, the other two being .451 inches.

Bullets are seated over 30 grains of Pyrodex-P with a Ox-Yoke wad between the powder and bullet. Wads were soaked in T/C Bore Butter because I love the smell of that stuff and it lubes the bullet as well. The wads also aid in compression and prevention of chain-fires.

Notice the edge of the loading ram used for seating reference.

[rodwha]

Tar Heel: I had looked at that bullet. I figure it may be better than a 143 grn RB, but wonder if 200-240 grns would be ideal. Of course that also really does a number on powder volume and therefor velocity. I wish I had more than a basic understanding of ballistics.

I hear that the Lee conical doesn't actually have a smaller driving band and does not seat straight. Do you have that problem? Does the ram alter the nose much? It looks minimal and fairly uniform. What kind of groups do you get with it?

Did you enlarge the loading port? Yours looks wider than mine.

My father gave me some dry wads and a tube of CVA Grease Patch.

[Springfield]

You HAVE heard of the DD-ROA conical, a bullet designed expressly to work in the ROA's, has a rebated base and holds more lube than you could ever need? The moulds are available at www.biglube.com They don't work in my Piettas 'cause the cylinder bores are smalller. I did at one time make a few of them and using my Lyman 45 resized just the base so that they would work but didn't see any better accuracy for me at the CAS distances I was shooting, but some do. I have the mould if you wold like to try some out.

[Tar Heel]

Tar Heel: I had looked at that bullet. I figure it may be better than a 143 grn RB, but wonder if 200-240 grns would be ideal. Of course that also really does a number on powder volume and therefor velocity. I wish I had more than a basic understanding of ballistics.

I hear that the Lee conical doesn't actually have a smaller driving band and does not seat straight. Do you have that problem? Does the ram alter the nose much? It looks minimal and fairly uniform. What kind of groups do you get with it?

Did you enlarge the loading port? Yours looks wider than mine.

My father gave me some dry wads and a tube of CVA Grease Patch.

See if that paper I sent you on email addresses those questions. It shoots 4" groups from a bench rest at 20 yards, 30 grains Pyrodex-P, Ox-Yoke wads soaked in T/C Bore Butter. I sized the Lee 456-220-1R to .452 in a RCBS lubrisizer and lubed them with NRA Alox. I think the twist rate is incorrect for these conicals and set best for RB's in the ROA.

Ballistics is easy. Small groups matter. Understand muzzle energy and low standard deviation from shot to shot and you have it made. I am speaking of handguns here and in general of course.

The ram does not deform the nose if you take your time seating the bullet and you have cast with pure lead. I have tried these with range scrap and they work OK too with the same accuracy and loading results. The RB's shoot better, have lower standard deviation on 6-shot strings, group smaller and are easier to handle.

I have not modified the gun at all. They may have changed it some since I bought this one in 1978. It's what they call a "pre-warning" ROA meaning it was made before they roll stamped all the warnings on the barrels for people who are too stupid to know which end of the barrel the bullets are supposed to come out of.

Look at the bullet selection in terms of muzzle energy. A 143 grain RB at 1000 fps has 317 foot pounds of muzzle energy. The Lee 220 grain conical at 800 fps has 313 pounds of energy. The RB and the conical have the same energy (all things being equal).

The RB is twice as accurate as the conical. The RB is easier to load. The cast RB does not need sizing and lubing. The RB will not cant in the chambers.

If you have to try this out....get the Lee 456-220-1R mold and have at it. You will need to size it down to at or .001 over your largest chamber mouth to get them to seat as uniform and straight as possible. If you attempt to stuff a .456 bullet into a .451 chamber with the loading rod, you will break the darn thing and/or never get the bullet seated parallel with the chamber axis. The Lee mold is cheap. It is $19.95 on MidwayUSA. I assume you have a .452 sizing die and a lubrisizer?

I would suggest you not buy ready-made conical bullets unless you absolutely know who cast them and with what alloy. Odds are they are not pure lead and too hard for the ROA. They will also probably have a high velocity (hard) lube on them so it doesn't melt off the bullets in shipment.

Anyway...digest all this drivel for a while and fire back.

[Tar Heel]

You HAVE heard of the DD-ROA conical, a bullet designed expressly to work in the ROA's, has a rebated base and holds more lube than you could ever need? The moulds are available at www.biglube.com They don't work in my Piettas 'cause the cylinder bores are smalller. I did at one time make a few of them and using my Lyman 45 resized just the base so that they would work but didn't see any better accuracy for me at the CAS distances I was shooting, but some do. I have the mould if you wold like to try some out.

Thanks Springfield....I was just getting ready to get the lad the link for this bullet. I haven't tried them since the OAL is even longer than the ones on Accurate. I'll use the space for powder and shove a RB in front of it iffn I need the xtra velocity.

Thanks for posting the Dick Dastardly info..

[Tar Heel]

Hey rodwha.....check out Springfields post #20. That bullet may be worth while to play with some if you simply have to shoot conicals.

[rodwha]

Springfield: What is the size of your Pietta's chambers? My chambers run .450-.451".
I'm very curious as to how you are resizing just the base of the bullets. I figured were you to flip it upside-down and resize the base it would just get stuck in the die.
I appreciate the offer and would love to take you up on the offer of a few bullets to try. That would be awesome!

[rodwha]

Tar Heel: I found that the Old Army has a 1:16" twist, which is what they use for the 45 Colt. The article with the Old Army said it was fast for a RB, but that it still worked well. Hmmm... I had figured it was probably more like 1:30 or so like most percussion pistols seem to have. I have heard that the best accuracy does seem to be with RB though. I wonder why? Maybe because they seat true no matter which way you load 'em?

By understanding ballistics I meant the whole 9 yards of it to include terminal ballistics and such. What makes one load better for a job than another for a given task. For instance how heavy is too heavy? If a heavier bullet penetrates deeper than a lighter bullet, at what point is it no longer good?

The RB vs conical may have similar energy at the muzzle, but the conical will have more further down the road. And that is a big reason for me wanting a conical/bullet. I want it to be plenty powerful for a clean kill as far as I can reasonably shoot it (hoping 50 yds with a good rest). Under 300 ft/lbs sounds like the potential to wound is fairly high. Especially with a lightweight projectile. I want to say I found the 220 grn conical to have a BC of .127 or .137, whereas the RB is .064. But I keep reading how the RB works very well...

I do like the idea of the simplicity and non issue of loading true with a RB. And they are cheap. I wish I felt better about hunting with them.

I do not have a resizing/lubing setup, nor for casting. Another reason why the expense of custom moulds gives me pause. I certainly want something that works well, and for that you often pay a premium. But I have a lot of things to get, which is why, for now, I'm looking at what is commercially available, and partly why I'm interested in resizing the base of bullets. And I still need a rifle too... The way I see it I need several! :wink:

Unfortunately mine was made in '82 and has the unsightly idiot stamping across the barrel. It's very tacky I must say. And I don't care about the stamping on the cylinder either.

[rodwha]

What is the upper limit of Brinell hardness that I can use? Especially since my base pin has been compromised. Is wheel weight too much?
What is the BH of pure lead? Like 5 or so right?
What is the BH of wheel weights?
How about 50/50 mix of the two? OK?
What kind of expansion will a RB through an animal give starting at 1100-1300 fps? A conical/bullet ~200-240 grns at 200 fps slower? I had assumed great expansion and odds great that it can fragment on bone.

[rodwha]

Kaedo's hunting bullets are 9-11 Brinell hardness. I'll be ordering a sampler of them soon.

[Good Cheer]

http://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy192/SNARGLEFLERK/wandconicals.jpg
These are RCBS 45-225 cast from straight lead and then sized on the rear two bands to slide into the chambers. The front band is left large.

Just a thought on making the best boolit for the ROA, you could size what ever boolit you wanted to use to make it work the same as the one shown above but the lube grooves aren't really needed for percussion revolvers. The "groove" is already where you need it, in front of the boolit. Lube grooves in the mold just mean loss of powder space. So why not take an old .44 mold that will work with your loading ram and have the body of the mold ground (no lube grooves) to slide into your chambers and the front ring on the cavity ground large to shear on the chamber lip? Make the nose as long or short as you want it. An old mold and a quickie conversion would be the cheap way to get exactly the boolit you wanted.

[rodwha]

Good Cheer: I don't understand the groove in front. Do you mean applying lube on top of the bullet? I hear it's quite messy, and carrying it that way in a holster for a period may lose a lot of it from what I hear.

I'm curious about resizing the base of the bullets. Do you put them in upside down? How do you push the bullet back out? I figured they would get stuck and be a bear to get out, marring the bullet.

[rodwha]

Good Cheer: How accurate are those boolits for you? Nice Walker BTW!

[Omnivore]

rodwha; I haven't hunted with my pistols, but between my son and I we've killed a lot of deer using 50 cal round ball wt a MV of about 1500 to 1600 fps. Swaged, pure lead round balls. Distances have ranged from less than 25 yards to around 85 yards, so I know that several of those shots were well into the super sonic range upon impact. I've recovered two of them from deer, after they penetrated up to 25 inches, and never have I seen any evidence of "expansion". Most of the balls penetrate fully, and the exit holes always look pretty much the same as the entry holes. One recovered ball was in good enough shape I said I could probably load it and fire it again.

With the Remington revolver I have observed what I will call a 'sweet spot" in powder/bullet combination; The 180 Buffalo Bullet (made with a shallow, hollow, rebated "heel" base and a round nose) over 30 grains (IIRC - if you're really curious I can look up my data) Goex 3F got more MORE velocity than the same charge under a round ball. That load netted just over 1100 fps from the 8" barrel. A 180 bullet @ 1100+ is an exact match for the hotter 40 S&W loads for that bullet weight listed in the Speer manual. Going to the 200 grain Lee bullet, my velocity dropped to below that of the round ball as one would expect, but I repeated this back and forth, and the 180 Buffalo was faster than the RB. Accuracy was about the same at 25 yards, with a slight edge going to the RB. Based on that I would recommend trying the Buffalo bullet for your revolvers. My Pietta chambers are more like .448 - .449".

[Omnivore]

CORRECTION; My Buffalo 180 grain bullet load was pushed to only 1047 fps, and THAT exactly matches the hottest 40 S&W load in the Speer manual, or rather it exceeds it by about 20 fps. And that was with 30 grains of Goex 3F, which is about as much as will fit with that bullet in the Remington. (I just went back and found my data). So yeah; 1100+ with a 180 is unrealistic with that powder in that gun (that would be closer to a 10 mm Auto load).

Here's my write-up on the experience;
http://blog.joehuffman.org/2010/02/16/PlayingWithFire.aspx

[rodwha]

Omnivore: I'm quite surprised that you get virtually no expansion at a higher velocity.

I intend on using 777 so I should get even more velocity from my ROA. I had another guy recommend those, and at first I didn't give it much thought as I would never have selected a 185 grn bullet for my 1911. I always felt it was too light, which is what gun writers and such would always say.

I greatly appreciate your write-up. Thanks!

[Omnivore]

rodwha; Thank you and everyone else for an interesting thread.

I was surprised myself at the lack of expansion, but that's in soft tissue, and including cutting ribs (but white tail ribs are fairly light). I don't doubt that the ball would obliterate if it hit heavy bone such as the spine.

Yeah I just wanted to point out that, with the Goex 3F at least, there was a synergistic increase in velocity with the Buffalo 180 compared to the lighter round ball, with the same powder charge.

With 777 it'll be a different dynamic, so if such a phenomenon can be found, it will likely be with a different charge and/or bullet.

Still and all; matching the best performance from a 40 S&W (velocity and bullet weight wise) isn't too bad for 1860s tech. I've known people to take deer with a 40 at close range, and they said it went well. Pigs; I don't know. Depends on the pig I guess (and the shooter).

[rodwha]

Springfield: Let me now how much shipping is if, indeed, you want to send me a few.
Curious as to whether or not you'd be interested in selling the mould were I to find that it works well?

[rodwha]

Omnivore: Quite surprised that you were able to produce higher velocity with a heavier projectile. Maybe more resistance due to more surface area contacting the walls without too much of a weight increase?

For me the pig wouldn't be too big as I hear the smaller ones are much tastier. And not pushing it with a handgun. The only reason I'd kill a big boar would be if a rancher needed them thinned out and/or it would look good on my wall, though I am no trophy seeker. Nothing else is on the wall.

[Tar Heel]

rodwha.....trust me. Download this document and read it. You will get a lot out of it with your background and interests.

http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_textonly2.pdf

[rodwha]

Thanks Tar Heel!

[Good Cheer]

Good Cheer: I don't understand the groove in front. Do you mean applying lube on top of the bullet? I hear it's quite messy, and carrying it that way in a holster for a period may lose a lot of it from what I hear.

I'm curious about resizing the base of the bullets. Do you put them in upside down? How do you push the bullet back out? I figured they would get stuck and be a bear to get out, marring the bullet.

Yeah, I mean the groove "in front" formed by the nose of the boolit and the inside diameter of the chamber itself. Lubing the chamber mouths after seating the balls is as messy as you make it. My preference for lube is LOOB (Lanolin, olive oil and beeswax) mixed up stiff enough to stay where it's put.

For sizing the boolits I'm using a Lyman lubrisizer, only sizing the part I want reduced in diameter. It goes in base first and then pops back out. The depth it goes in is adjusted with the threaded rod sleeve below the sizing die.

As concerns accuracy, To a large extent it's the same as shooting a 45 Colt. Different boolits and different amounts of FFg and FFFg do different things. I have shot some great groups and I've shot some mysteriously large ones too... but I do that with a .357 and a .44 also!

[Good Cheer]

By the way, when sizing a soft slug like that it helps to have some lanolin on your fingers and get a little on the lead before running it in the die.

[Good Cheer]

Another by the way, if you use a boolit with the body of a diameter to just slide into the chamber, the diameter needs to have a thou or two clearance. Fouling in the chamber when you are reloading is a consideration. Also, the revolver will usually hit a little higher on the reload compared to the initial clean cylinder shots. The shorter the barrel the more it will matter. Percussion revolvers always do that at least some but I think a heavier slug accentuates the effect at least a little.

[rodwha]

Does the LOOB stay put del enough for a weekend out in the field? Even longer?

The boolits that you resize the base of will stay with the ram and not get stuck in the sizing die? I assumed they would stick in there.

[rodwha]

Good Cheer: The way I understand your last post is that I would want to size my boolits to .449 or .450" with .450 and .451" chambers. Correct? I thought they should be slightly larger (despite Ruger's claim of .454")?

[Good Cheer]

Good Cheer: The way I understand your last post is that I would want to size my boolits to .449 or .450" with .450 and .451" chambers. Correct? I thought they should be slightly larger (despite Ruger's claim of .454")?

The way that I do it is the front end of the bullet stays larger than the chamber diameter so that it shears on the chamber mouth just like loading a round ball. The back end of the boolit is sized to be smaller than the chamber diameter and slip right in, providing alignment without being difficult to load.

This is the mold I'm using for a particular .36 reproduction, the diameter made to suit the piece. No sizing necessary with the slug falling out of the mold ready to use.
http://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy192/SNARGLEFLERK/RBConicalDesign.jpg

[Tar Heel]

Good Cheer: The way I understand your last post is that I would want to size my boolits to .449 or .450" with .450 and .451" chambers. Correct? I thought they should be slightly larger (despite Ruger's claim of .454")?

Gents...I have not seen a ROA chamber larger than .452 although some may exist. I believe what Good Cheer is suggesting is that you use a standard lubrisizer to size the BASE portion of a selected bullet to about .450 ( one or two thousandths smaller than the chamber mouth) while leaving the upper portion of the bullet larger at about .454 or so. This allows a friction fit, gas seal and alignment assistance.

[rodwha]

Finally made it out to the range after having bent my base pin back to useable.

It gave me the opportunity to try out a cylinder of 190 grn conicals a fellow sent me to try out. He stated they are from a Lee mould. Lee has a 200 grn mould, and so I am uncertain if it's not pure lead or if they are from a discontinued mould.

But they shot quite well. They grouped about the same as RB (and a 22 LR shell of cream of wheat) did for me using 30 grn of Pyro P and a wad. Gave me under a 2 1/2" group.

The 380 ACP casing held too much cream of wheat. I'll take my tubing cutters with me next time to find what the ideal size would be as the 22 LR was a bit too small and hard to fill using an old honey bottle with a spout. Wished someone was shooting a 32 ACP...

[Tar Heel]

Finally made it out to the range after having bent my base pin back to useable.

It gave me the opportunity to try out a cylinder of 190 grn conicals a fellow sent me to try out. He stated they are from a Lee mould. Lee has a 200 grn mould, and so I am uncertain if it's not pure lead or if they are from a discontinued mould.

Well there you have it. Nothing like a trip to the range to try out all the theory and see what really works. If that bullet works to your expectations, determine what mold he used to make it and set yourself up with one.

[rodwha]

I still intend on trying out Kaedo's 240 grn bullets.

I'm not even ready to get involved with casting. I've watched videos and read up on it, and am interested, but certainly not ready. So much equipment including a sizing setup with a press...

[Maven]

rodwha, et al., Take a look at this from the CBA Forum, especially C.E. Harris' reply (2nd post):
http://www.castbulletassoc.org/forum/view_topic.php?id=8688&forum_id=70

[rodwha]

I created an account there, but it still won't allow me to view that conversation without becoming a paying member...

[Maven]

Just click on the above link. (It's active.)

[rodwha]

I did. Must be a member. Created an account, but still can't view it. I'd like to...

[rodwha]

This is what I get:


Sorry, you do not have permission to view this topic. You may probably perform this action after you login. If you are not a member, you can register here. If you are already logged in then the administrator of the board does not allow this action. Should you have any questions, please contact 10web@castbulletassoc.org.

Though I've created an account it still doesn't allow me to see it...

[Maven]

rodwha, Let's see whether the cut & paste job works:

Date: 09 Jan 94 11:46:57
From: Ed Harris
To: Nolan Lee
Subj: Old Army Question

Loads for Ruger's Old Army:

Ruger's instruction book recommends a light target load of 20
grs. of FFFg, and filling the remainder of the chamber with
corn meal or Cream of Wheat to take up the airspace.

Round balls should be .457" diameter, to ensure an adequate
cylindrical bearing surface is formed on the ball to take the
rifling. Soft, bevel-based .45 ACP lead semi-wadcutters such
as the Saeco #131 or H&G #130BB may be used if .453" diameter
or larger. This is required so they fit the chambers tightly
to prevent their creeping forward from recoil. I
find .45 ACP wadcutters are more accurate than the
traditional blackpowder conicals.

As the gun comes from the factory, the sights are best suited
for use with round balls. Ruger's recommended load of 20
grs. of FFFg strikes high in the ten-ring of the 25-yard
Timed and Rapid-Fire pistol target. A heavier load of 35
grs. of FFFg hits at 12:00 in the nine ring. Heavier bullets
of 200 grains or more strike at the upper edge of the paper.
The Ruger's front sight really needs to be 0.080'-0.090"
higher to permit greater flexibility in loads, as the heavier
bullets are truly accurate and provide greater energy for
hunting loads.

The Lee 200-gr. .45 cal. R.E.A.L. is more accurate than
traditional round-nosed conicals, cuts clean holes in target
paper and is of tapered design so it is easy to load. It
shoots accurately with the same charges used for round balls
in the Old Army. I lubricate REAL bullets for my Old Army in
a .454" sizer, and either fill the grooves with a soft stick
lubricant or tumble them in Lee Liquid Alox. Both methods
work well.

A charge of 20-25 grs. bulk measure of FFFg or Pyrodex P,
(Lee 1.3cc or 1.6cc measure) with the 200 R.E.A.L.
approximates the ballistics of .45 ACP wadcutter ammunition.
For a heavy hunting load 30-35 grs. bulk measure of FFFg,
Pyrodex RS or P (Lee 1.9cc or 2.2 cc measure), fills the
chambers when a wad is used, produces 2 to 2-1/2" groups at
25 yards and 850-1000 f.p.s., depending upon the powder used.

The 250-gr. Lee R.E.A.L. bullet is highly accurate and
authoritative from the Ruger Old Army with 30-35 grs. bulk
measure (a Lee 1.9cc or 2.2cc measure full) of FFFg black
powder, RS or P-grade Pyrodex. The 2.2cc measure fills the
chambers to capacity without using a wad, produces 880-980
f.p.s., depending upon the powder type and granulation and
averages 2" groups or less at 25 yards.

Black Powder Loads For the Ruger Old Army
Average of Five, 6-Shot Groups at 25 yards from sandbag rests
CCI Caps, Ox Yoke wads.

BULLET GOEX VEL@10' EXTREME SPREAD (ins.)
FFFg (f.p.s.) Smallest Largest Average
(grs.) Goex Powder lot
-----------------------------------------------------------------
143-gr., .457" Lee Round Ball
fill+wad 20 801, 43 Sd 1.76 1.93 1.84
wad only 25 738, 31 Sd 1.99 2.58 2.24 92MY20B
931, 32 Sd 1.42 2.40 1.88 93JA12B
30 971, 15 Sd 1.79 2.20 2.00
35 1010, 9 Sd 1.50 3.96 2.13
41 1041, 10 Sd 2.46 4.50 3.46 92MY20B
1228, Sd 27 2.22 4.14 3.36 93JA12B
-----------------------------------------------------------------
200-gr. Lee R.E.A.L.
wad 20 699, 25 Sd 1.75 1.96 1.81
25 864, 7 Sd 1.06 2.55 2.01
no wad 30 685, 38 Sd 1.85 2.66 2.23 92MY20B
882, 12 Sd 1.78 2.66 2.13 93JA12B
35 852, 12 Sd 1.20 3.0 2.20 92MY20B
1017, 15 Sd 1.59 2.57 1.89 93JA12B
-----------------------------------------------------------------
250-gr. Lee R.E.A.L.

wad 20 672, 12 Sd 1.91 3.0 2.39
25 781, 31 Sd 2.04 2.56 2.22
no wad 30 882, 12 Sd 1.30 2.14 1.60
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Unless otherwise stated, all black powder tests above were based
upon firing Goex FFFg of lot 93JA12B. Two charge levels were
repeated with the 143-gr. round ball and again with the 200-gr.
Lee R.E.A.L. using a different powder lot 92MY20B. This was done
to illustrate that black powder of the same brand and granulation
is subject to variations. The results in this brief test
represent the maximum lot-to-lot variation an individual user is
expected to encounter.

Hodgdon Pyrodex RS Loads For the Ruger Old Army
Average of Five, 6-Shot Groups at 25 yards from sandbag rests
CCI caps, Ox Yoke wads.

BULLET Pyro.RS BULK VEL@10' EXTREME SPREAD (ins.)
Wt/Type ACTUAL BP (f.p.s.) Smallest Largest Average
(grs.) (grs.))
-----------------------------------------------------------------
143-gr. .457" Lee Round Ball
wad, fill 16 22 725, 30Sd 1.93 2.71 2.40
wad, no fill 20 30 883, 30Sd 1.21 2.52 1.80
25 35 947, 26Sd 2.17 2.68 2.42
no wad/fill 30 41 1201, 27Sd 2.29 3.18 2.53

200-gr. Lee R.E.A.L.
wad, no fill 20 30 836, 29Sd 1.28 2.42 1.91
25 35 914, 41Sd 1.08 2.43 1.82
-----------------------------------------------------------------
220-gr. Lee Round-Nosed Conical
wad, fill 16 22 714, 16Sd 1.73 3.17 2.34
wad, no fill 20 30 815, 25Sd 2.23 3.16 2.73
wad, no fill 25 35 889, 27Sd 2.01 2.99 2.57
-----------------------------------------------------------------
250-gr. Lee R.E.A.L.
no wad/fill 25 35 913, 32Sd 1.81 2.17 2.03

Hodgdon Pyrodex P Loads For the Ruger Old Army
Average of Five, 6-Shot Groups at 25 yards from sandbag rests
CCI caps, Ox Yoke wads

BULLET Pyro. P BULK VEL@10' EXTREME SPREAD (ins.)
Wt/Type ACTUAL BP (f.p.s.) Smallest Largest Average
(grs.) (grs.))
-----------------------------------------------------------------
143-gr. .457" Lee Round Ball
wad, fill 16.5 20 851, 11Sd 1.62 2.10 1.91
18 22 884, 14Sd 1.66 2.41 1.94
wad, no fill 21 25 942, 19Sd 1.59 2.3 2.00
24 30 985, 22Sd 1.77 4.85 2.86
29 35 1117, 51Sd 2.15 3.91 2.87
33 41 1189, 31Sd 2.15 4.65 3.32
-----------------------------------------------------------------
200-gr. Lee R.E.A.L.
wad, fill 16.5 20 816, 13Sd 1.73 2.74 2.12
18 22 860, 14Sd 1.66 2.41 1.91
wad, no fill 21 25 940, 31Sd 1.45 2.51 2.02
24 30 1002, 12Sd 2.03 3.17 2.55
no wad/ 29 35 1123, 22Sd 1.98 2.85 2.44
-----------------------------------------------------------------
250-gr. Lee R.E.A.L.
wad, fill 16.5 20 759, 9Sd 1.41 2.0 1.76
18 22 781, 16Sd 2.02 2.69 2.40
wad, no fill 21 25 876, 12Sd 1.68 2.08 1.83
24 30 982, 28Sd 1.61 2.69 1.94
-----------------------------------------------------------------

[rodwha]

Quite informative. Thanks Maven!