PPQ failure to feed

[Tango2020]

I would like some opinions on this. I only have 2 mags that came with the pistol and it seems like it may be a mag issue. It just occasionally dies this, normally the first time I empty the mag then runs fine till the next outing and always jams on the last two rounds in the mag. I have tried taking it apart and cleaning after each outing and ran it dry and oiled. Seems to be one mag but really haven't tested the 2 nd one extensively. Ideas?http://img.tapatalk.com/ae6c1f07-ed57-a17e.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/ae6c1f07-ed6a-dc56.jpg

[mpmarty]

1. Get some new mag springs.
2. Mark your magazines so you can tell which one is doing it and compare the lips.

[MBTcustom]

I would call the manufacturer and send the pistol back for warranty repair along with a letter and the pictures you just posted. I'll bet they don't charge you a thing.
If sending it back is not an option, I would get new magazines. So what if they cost $40 each? Your life is worth the investment. (some may disagree with me, but I think my life is worth at least $92.75)
Last resort, if you simply cannot afford to replace the magazines, or send the gun back to the manufacturer, change out the springs like mpmarty suggested and pray it works.
Those feed lips are the single most important piece of automatic pistol function. They are under a great deal of stress, and they are always made of sheet metal (go figure).
Most semi-automatic problems evaporate when you replace the magazines.

[Cadillo]

If that's a handload, check the cartridge OAL against that of a factory round. Pictures can be deceiving at times, but that cartridge looks too short.

Is your powder charge sufficient to properly cycle the weapon?

How does it function with other ammo types/loads?

As someone else said, you must mark your magazines so you can determine whether or not is an issue related to one (magazine) or multiple magazines(gun or cartridge).

[Tango2020]

The OAL in the Lyman casting handbook is 1.100 which I did shorten to 1.085 to correct feeding and other issues but I'm thinking it's not OAL due to the fact that it is always the next to last round.
I would love to change the springs but I can't find replacement springs for the PPQ. I'm not sure if there is a cross reference to another mag spring that may work.

I'm not big on sending this pistol back to S&W again. I did before due to visual defects in the lands. They sent it back saying they just cleaned it. The defects were still there so I called and they told me that the problem was due to the fact that I was switching up lead and jacketed.

The guy at S&W said that they take it to test fire it and if it cycles with the test ammo and is accurate it's deemed good.
No doubt I will get the same result from S&W on this as well.

[35remington]

Looks very much like a bolt over base misfeed. The breechface would be then hitting the cartridge in the extractor groove rather than the rim. Shoves the cartridge in the magazine base down and jams when the round is at an angle.

The bottom round being at an angle as well seems to be a clue.

In cycling the pistol, how much breechface overtravel past the magazine well is there?

[Tango2020]

I'm trying to follow you 35 Remington. I cycled the gun by hand each round would pop up smoothly until the last or next to last round which comes up nose first.
Why and how do I fix it?

Breach face over travel past the magazinehttp://img.tapatalk.com/ae6c1f07-1860-7fd6.jpg well I'm not sure I understood the question but here is a pic

[runfiverun]

most feeding issues are the magazine.
if it's the last two the carrier could be tilting and applying all the pressure to the nose.
if you have had the thing apart and it's possible to turn the spring around i would try that first.
i would definately mark the magazines and see if it is both of them.
it could be the lips are bent on the front i have seen a lot of them that need a little tweaking in that area.
especially on 22 magazines people tend to shove the round straight down instead of sliding the rim down and back into the magazine.

[Tango2020]

Ok . I tried turning the spring 180 and that did put more pressure on the back of the round but when it got to the last round it hangs on the lip of the casing when it tries to feed. Too much downward tilt I guess. I think I'll try and TWEAK the spring a little. What the hell ...it's only $50 right?

[runfiverun]

if it don't work it's about useless. [unless you can throw it real hard]
you'll probably replace it anyways so what are you really out?

[35remington]

BOB misfeeds are where the slide is outrunning the magazine. It's a live fire malfunction. Usually occurs on the last rounds in the magazine.

Again, what is the breechface overtravel past the magazine well? Demonstrate, please. What you have is slide stop notch captivity. Hold the slide open to the limit of its travel and then have another take a picture.

Don't touch the spring. See if Wolff has aftermarket options in the + power range.

Some designs are more prone to this than others. That's why I'm asking about overtravel.

[Cadillo]

The OAL in the Lyman casting handbook is 1.100 which I did shorten to 1.085 to correct feeding and other issues but I'm thinking it's not OAL due to the fact that it is always the next to last round.
I would love to change the springs but I can't find replacement springs for the PPQ. I'm not sure if there is a cross reference to another mag spring that may work.

I'm not big on sending this pistol back to S&W again. I did before due to visual defects in the lands. They sent it back saying they just cleaned it. The defects were still there so I called and they told me that the problem was due to the fact that I was switching up lead and jacketed.

The guy at S&W said that they take it to test fire it and if it cycles with the test ammo and is accurate it's deemed good.
No doubt I will get the same result from S&W on this as well.

The last or next to last rounds are usually the ones most likely to give problems due to the fact that the magazine spring by that point has expended most of its preload.

Regarding what Lyman recommends as overall length for a given bullet, I think that you should consider the source of that recommendation. After all, this is the same Lyman that recommends that .45 caliber boolits be sized to 0.451". My .45 boolits, even Lyman (452630) don't work correctly in my autos or revolvers until I size them to 0.453". Any smaller than that and they give me some leading regardless of alloy, pressure, lube, etc.

This is also the same Lyman that suggests that one seat aforementioned boolit to 1.235", which will not give reliable function in my Sig P220's, but which work just fine with an OAL of 1.242" OAL is critical regarding function and feeding in an auto, and most often a round that will give trouble is way short of what the magazine can handle lengthwise. So I'll say it again, find a factory round that functions OK in your gun and try that OAL with your handload. When I have an auto for which I have no factory round to measure, I start by loading the cartridges as long as the magazine will accomodate without nose drag on the mag body. At that length any trouble is with the charge weight(too light), extractor, etc., assuming of course that the magazine itself if not the issue.(number or othewise mark your magazines).

If that is the Lyman 401638, 175 grain TC, it runs great in my P226's at 1.113" OAL, a bit longer that the folks at Lyman recommend. Guns are like women, they can be similar in function, but they are all individuals with slighly different tastes. The book recommendations are good starting points, but most often not correct for all guns.

If it were mine, I would lengthen the OAL to the point that it is just short of nose drag on the magazine and then dismantle and clean the magazine while also giving the spring a slight stretch to see if that resolves the issue. If the spring stretch works get another new spring, and I suggest an extra power spring if available from Wolf or someone else.

[Tango2020]

I will adjust the oal if all else fails but the function is the best I have gotten it to this point. I do have the mags marked and it seemed to be the same one but need to shoot more to be conclusive.
I have to work the next few days ( night shift) so that isn't in the near future. Here is the breach face pic http://img.tapatalk.com/ae6c1f07-08f8-1691.jpg
Thanks for all the assistance.

[MBTcustom]

Are you just doing this because you like to tinker with stuff? No way I would trust my life to a firearm with those problems.
Did you call S&W?

[NTD]

I'm really curious what's going on. I have a PPQ in .40 that has 1300 rounds through it in 3 months. I shoot it in IDPA and USPSA and I only cleaned it once after the first 100 rounds. I've only shot factory and moly coateds through it but plan on working with lead with it. I know 1300 rounds is just a little bit but dang I haven't had a single issue with it.

Does it do this on factory ammo? Are the Magazines OEM...not ProMags are they?

[Cadillo]

I'm starting to believe that he cannot be helped. He either can't or won't answer the question of whether or not the gun gives problems with factory ammo. I wonder whether S&W told him that their expectation was for their products to function with factory ammo rather than handloads.

Yes, I know that a good handload tailored to a specific firearm is often superior to any factory cartridge, but getting to that point is often to run a gauntlet of details.

I wish him well, but won't waste any more of my time. :groner:

[35remington]

At least you've got some breechface overtravel. Not as much as a five inch 1911, but some is there.

The next time it jams, take a very, very close look at it, and this should resolve the issue for you definitively. If the breechface has missed the rim but is bearing against the extraction groove, the back end of the remaining two rounds will be "shoved down" into the magazine a little bit, with the front end tilted upward. The round will stop well short of the chamber.

This means a magazine spring that is not strong enough to bring the round up into feeding position before the breechface has over run the cartridge to some degree. It's a common problem with magazines that are designed with too much capacity and too little spring, and with guns that have little breechface overtravel past the magazine well. The more overtravel, the more time the round has to rise before the breechface returns forward. The stronger the magazine spring, the faster it moves the cartridges into feeding position. Ideally you have plenty of overtravel and spring for redundancy. These usually happen on the last round or two when magazine spring tension is at its weakest.

Don't bother stretching the spring if you see that this is the case because stretched springs are problematic.....they will take back their original set very, very quickly and you won't learn anything. See if Wolff offers some aftermarket springs that are Plus (+) power to raise the rounds quicker into feeding position.

If there is room, here is how you see if more spring will help. This is better than stretching the spring. If the gun has a removable floorplate, and you can fit a spacer equivalent to a couple round's thickness in the magazine, yet is square on top to give the spring a solid base to push on, do so. You should be able to find something that will work. A squarish piece of plastic, wood, whatever. You can fit a piece of wood from the hardware store. Now place this spacer between spring and floorplate. This is equivalent to having a higher "base" to the magazine and gives the spring more "oomph" in a regular way.

Now shoot it and see if the gun feeds the last two rounds perfectly every time. If it does.......it's the spring strength.

I presume you have a double column magazine because it looks like it in the pictures. With 1911's this is a bit easier as we just load a round or two in the magazine and put the spring on top of them if we suspect the spring is a problem. It reduces the magazine capacity to 5, 6 or seven depending upon whether it's a seven or eight shot but it definitively shows whether spring strength is the issue in feeding the last rounds.

Hope this is your problem. And that if it is, you can get more springs.

[Tango2020]

Shimming the spring in the Magazine sounds like a very good solution which I will try but finding a replacement spring for a PPQ Mag is next to impossible but I will do some calling and see what I can come up with.

35 Remington I thank you for your input.

NOW to answer the other questions.

YES I do like to tinker or I wouldn't be casting / reloading and have sank the thousands of $$ into this venture that I have.

NO it does not do it with factory ammo but I will be damned if I will go buy and shoot factory ammo and pay their prices so it is pointless. I need it to work with my cast boolits. An OAL of a jacketed round seems moot to me because it has a completely different profile.

MAYBE I can't be helped but I know I can't be helped by being insulted. If you don't want to waste your time don't click on the thread.

YES I have spent enough time on the phone with S&W and sending my gun into them to know that they don't give two craps about my CAST HANDLOAD not feeding perfectly. That is why I'm here asking for help.

[MBTcustom]

NO it does not do it with factory ammo but I will be damned if I will go buy and shoot factory ammo and pay their prices so it is pointless. I need it to work with my cast boolits. An OAL of a jacketed round seems moot to me because it has a completely different profile.
This I completely understand. I was under the impression that you had this problem with factory ammo as well as cast.

YES I have spent enough time on the phone with S&W and sending my gun into them to know that they don't give two craps about my CAST HANDLOAD not feeding perfectly. That is why I'm here asking for help.
Perfectly understandable. You wont get anywhere with any manufacturer if you bring up the castboolits issue.
For the record, I meant no offence in my previous post. I just asked a simple question, that's it!
Now, since this is limited to cast boolit ammo, I would be looking at your boolit profile. I have had problems in the past with angled nose-hollow points before. Is that the only boolit you have tried?
I wish I had some .40 caliber boolits that I could send you to try, but alas, I dont shoot that caliber yet. Still, thats the direction I would go (as well as replacing the mag springs with new ones. Heck, I replace mine every 18 months at least as a matter of course.)

[35remington]

Now hold on a minute. Magazine issues of this sort don't discriminate against handloads as opposed to factory loads.

I didn't know it doesn't do it with factory loads. If it was as I as said, factory loads would do it too. If it's been shot enough for you to be sure that it doesn't do it with factory loads, it's something you're doing with your handloads.

That brings us back to what the others were saying about overall length. Try seating it at different lengths as suggested. You have an unusual jam, and you must try the simple things first.

[Tango2020]

Thanks Goodsteel but with the PPQ being so new Springs are hard to come by. Let me give a more detailed history if you guys will bear with me.

Bought it in January I think it was so 6 months old.
Have a XDM that I am loading for also and wanting a load that works for both.
The PPQ is much more finicky.

Slugged barrel is .4015 (Large) checked it twice.
opened up my mould and sizing die to .403 however the bullet swages down to .402 after I pull it from the brass even though I'm using a Lyman M die to size the case so I'm still only ending up .005 over barrel size but leading isn't an issue now at this size BUT
I found that I must put a little taper crimp in order to prevent lube from blowing back into the chamber and causing jams from the gum. Taper crimp fixed that issue.

I have not tried a different bullet style but I have a 2 and a six banger that I currently use.

Set to an AOL of 1.100 with the crimp so close to start of the bullet cone I was finding lead slivers. Seating to 1.085 stopped that with almost no leading and no function issues except the last two out of this mag and only about once out of 5 or 6 cycles through but is mostly the 1st cycle.

When I first bought the gun I shot a few hundred factory rounds with no hick ups. I have not bought any lately because for 2 boxes I can just buy a new mag and I have a hard time swallowing that.

I might try using a longer AOL but my notes from before tell me I had cycling issues with the nose hitting the feed ramp.
AT the 1.085 OAL the XDM has no issues at all with this ammo and sized at .402 the XDM barrel is clean as a whistle.

PPQ shoots awesome but is a pain in the ****.

Sorry if I'm rambling

[9.3X62AL]

If factory rounds run reliably.......and cast boolit reloads don't......there is some element of the reloaded ammunition in that PPQ that isn't getting along with the system. Doesn't matter how well a given combo works in another pistol--it's not working in the PPQ, and some alteration of the combination may be required.

You might try getting a brand of jacketed bullets in 40 caliber for which you have data in a reloading manual--esp. OAL--and see if such loads feed better than the castings. This would tend to eliminate the "reloaded ammo" variable, and reduce it to the castings being used or their OAL. I've had EXCELLENT work with the Lee 175 grain TC in 3 different 40 S&W pistols, so the castings CAN work. Just gotta isolate the variable that's causing the grief--eliminate it--and enjoy.

Don't mind the boorish commentary concerning your failure to respond in the approved/timely fashion. It's the new paradigm hereabouts.

[Tango2020]

Thanks 9.3 . I think I need a good deal more testing to be sure of what is going on.

I will get back with my results but after working the next few days I well be out of town a few days then I will get back to loading and shooting to resolve this.

I have a few Hornady XTP's that I can load and test as you suggested.

[runfiverun]

ahhh.
if it only does it with your reloads,and not with the factory stuff, then there is enough difference between them that you'll need to measure and see what the difference is.

it could be the wasp waist [from the case sizing] in the cartridge that is letting them pop up like that.
and a simple die change or polish could be the fix.

[MBTcustom]

Set to an AOL of 1.100 with the crimp so close to start of the bullet cone I was finding lead slivers. .
You should crimp in a separate operation.

I might try using a longer AOL but my notes from before tell me I had cycling issues with the nose hitting the feed ramp.
You successfully identified one of the big issues (other than the feed lips) that causes feeding problems, but hardly anybody considers the very next point of contact which is the top of the chamber. These two places work in conjunction with the OAL of the cartridge and the style of the projectile used, to facilitate proper feeding by controlling the cartridge at very specific angles through its motion.
Certain boolit profiles make it so that the proper angle of the cartridge as it is stripped, is more dependent on consistent pressure of the follower on the cartridge base as the bolt face slides it off of the feed lips.
In other words, visualize a factory cartridge as it contacts the feed ramp and gets to the point where it's about to jump into the breech. (The angle of that cartridge is your Achilles heel in this situation). Now in your minds eye, replace the factory bullet with a simple wad-cutter soup can design that protrudes from the case the same amount as the factory projectile. Now surely you can see that the nose of the cartridge must go up because of the extended bearing surface of the bullet? The cartridge in that case will go nose-up too quickly and get pinched between the upper quadrant of the case head against the slide face, and the upper quadrant of the boolit against the top of the breech. Ie, instant FTF just add degrees of angle. Savvy?
Now, your situation is not as pronounced as the full wad-cutter description, but you have the same thing going on, with the additional problem that cast boolits aren't as slippery as hard copper jacket material, so they tend to want to bind on the top of the breech anyway, unless you have carefully stoned and polished that portion of the breech smooth.
What you need is a less angular HP boolit that will allow the cartridge a little bit less of an angle as it is pushed over the feed ramp. You need a RN HP design.
The boolits you post would be the cats meow in a 10MM revolver, but that particular design has given me more trouble than any other when it comes to feeding in an automatic. The problem is with that cartidge angle we just talked about. The gun cannot function with any ammo. It has to be tuned to run with a certain range of nose profiles (more accurately described as cartridge angles, take your pick) If you are just dead set on feeding that particular boolit, you have to get that angle back to factory specs. You can do this several ways:
1. You can polish down the feed ramp.
This is tricky business because if you go too far, you cannot put the material back. This is best left to a professional gunsmith. You can buy several barrels and have each one marked for the type of ammo it is tuned to feed. (my personal preference).
2. You can seat the boolit even deeper.
This is tricky, because you need both the angle in the first stage of stripping, and the length, because once the cartridge nose gets into the camber, it is going to need the length to lever the base of the cartridge into sliding up the face of the slide, and under the extractor. If you don't have the length, you wont have the leverage, and you will get FTF with the slide a little closer to being closed than it is now. DO NOT GET THESE TWO ISSUES CONFUSED. THEY ARE COMPLETELY DIFFERENT ISSUES THAT OCCUR WITHIN THOUSANDTHS OF AN INCH OF EACH-OTHER.
The design of your boolit makes this a particularly hard one to tune, if not impossible. The specific point where you get the best results (I believe you are very close to that point) may place too much pressure on the edge of the HP and cause it to grab the feed ramp or the top of the chamber, causing the FTF.
With cast boolits in an automatic, you need to have a boolit design that gives large contact areas at all times to aid in sliding instead of galling, while at the same time maintaining the feed angles that your pistol was tuned for from the factory.
I hope this helps.

[Tango2020]

Mr. Goodsteel, that is a very excellent and detailed explanation of what I was thinking/imagining to be the case. I think that was the reason I went with a shorter AOL to start with. My thought process was that the profile of my SWC would make contact with the feed ramp well before the rounded profile of most jacketed so shortening would get the timing more in line but as you say that got me past problem #1 and on to problem #2 which is hitting the top of the breech.

I look forward to using the info you guys gave me to try and solve this issue and I could change bullets,may have to but I'm sort of hard headed and don't want it to beat me.

Next week I will get back on it when I return from vacation. Thanks guys.

[Tango2020]

I wanted to report back my findings on my PPQ feeding issues. After further testing I found that the issue was happening with both Mags.
A friend also has a PPQ which I borrowed, His gun has been fired very little, and found that........

1. My Mag, My Ammo his gun.= FTF issues
2. His mag, his gun, my ammo = No FTF

I believe that the difference was that my springs are slightly weaker due to higher usage.

I made a nylon block that is about 3/16" thick and put in the base of both my mags which only dropped my capacity by one.
I have shot several hundred rounds now with those blocks in the mags with zero FTF's.

I have called Wolff and they said they have no springs yet for my PPQ mags and told me I most likely wouldn't find any either except from S&W.

I called S&W even though I assumed the springs from them would be no better than what I have (except new) to which they told me they would be glad to sell me some when they get more in which would be about 8 weeks.

Right now I'm happy with my blocks and I'll just wait till wolff starts selling stronger springs.

Again this is all due to the style boolit I'm shooting. I'm sure J-word bullets are a non-issue.

[popper]

No, it's the mag spring and follower. Typical for those who load the mag full, wears out the spring quicker. Leaving a full loaded mag will do the same thing. Clean the mag and check for rough spots or burrs on the follower. Mike the lips and compare with working mag. Pinching the front of the mag lips a couple thou. may reduce the tilt. I found that manual cycling could hang a round but firing won't, due to slide speed.

[9.3X62AL]

Guns are like women, they can be similar in function, but they are all individuals with slighly different tastes. The book recommendations are good starting points, but most often not correct for all guns.

Pearl of wisdom, right there.

How DOES the pistol and its magazines run on factory FMJ or HPs?

[Tango2020]

Typical for those who load the mag full, wears out the spring quicker. Leaving a full loaded mag will do the same thing.

Do others agree with this? I thought I had read that it wasn't true leaving a full mag had ill effects on the spring.

I thought repetition wore springs and not being over stressed. Am I incorrect?

[9.3X62AL]

It can be true, esp. with GI-spec magazines in older systems. M-16 and M-9 magazines are supposed to be made with what is called "rocket wire" spring metal, which is supposedly less prone to compression weakening over time. My agency has left Glock, Beretta, SIG-Sauer, and S&W magazines of various models fully-loaded for 4-5 years, just to test this out. All of them fed well. That's not comprehensive in the least, but does follow what the factories claim.

I don't fully accept the "rocket wire" dogma. My carry mags get rotated monthly, 3 filled/1+ left empty. I have a S&W 645 that I carried from 1987 to present with 8 mags, and rotate them as above. None have lost power, and the pistol has been shot A LOT--as in, 6 slide stops and 2 barrels so far.

If factory loads do indeed run like water through the pistol with both magazines, try finding a boolit mould form that emulates factory load bullet form. The Lee 175 TC has done well in every 40 S&W I've tried it in, but a number of factory bullet designs are more of a round flatnose or HP than a TC.

That successful magazine mod might be worth reporting to S&W. I'm certain your issue isn't the only one of its kind out there. There could be a "run" of bad-order magazines in the supply chain, and you can bet S&W will want to know about it--even if they don't disclose it publicly. That's where "recalls" get started, from complaints and field fixes.

[MBTcustom]

Springs can take a set over time. Its a fact. Of course, this is lessened by using good materials and not using the springs in an aplication that demands all that they can offer, but eventualy, they will take a set, especially if they are subjected to the vibration and elevation changes that happen when you are carrying them on your hip.
Case in point: I usualy change my springs every year, but I have a spare magazine that I have been remiss about the spring. It's one of my dads mags from the 70's. I gave it no thought because last month, I fired over 600 rounds through my 45 with not a single FTF. Well, yesterday was independance day, and I had need of my pistol to kill a goat for our celabration dinner. I pulled my side-arm and popped the goat in the head. Goat was DRT but I had a FTF. No beuno!!! I will be replacing the magazine spring as soon as I get home. This magazine fed flawlessly at the range over and over again, but I left it loaded for two weeks and I got a FTF when I put it into play which could have been a realy bad situation. Besides, springs are cheap, (OP will be able to get new springs eventually) so why not keep them fresh? I am just as tight with my money as anybody else, but when it comes to maintanence on my side-arm, I dont mess around, because it has to work!
All that being said ,if you dont shoot all the time, you should be able to get at least 5 years faithfull service from a new firearm. The OP's pistol might have a design flaw, but I still suspect that a different nose profile would make these problems disapear. Its easy enough to find out if you go to the boolit exchange in the swapping and selling section and offer some of your fancy HP's in trade for other common HP designs. Another advantage to this, is that you can keep up with the folks you send your boolits to and they can inform you if they have similar troubles out of those boolits. Molds are so expensive, and each gun has such different preferances, I wont buy another without trying the boolits first.

[popper]

Yup, auto suspension springs have to be re-arched after a while too. Dropping your OAL back .015 keeps the CB from shaving on the throat - I think Gear mentioned that rounding that edge will solve the problem. Your PPQ chamber is probably large so try some unsized cases to prevent the case from resizing the CB (or slightly harder alloy). Make sure the mag lips are parallel,mag seats to correct depth in frame, inside of mag is clean. Often I whack the case head side of the mag against my hand to make sure all the CBs are seated in the mag right, keeps the noses from dragging. Mag springs and lips have always been an issue and will continue to be an issue. Wenmt back and looked at your loaded mag pics. The angle of loaded rounds is EXTREME. Compare with your XD. Try pushing down on the nose of the last loaded round to seat them correctly. If the angle stays too large, the front lips are probably out of spec. Neither my XD or PX4 have that much angle. Factory will probably run OK as the nose is harder and will force itself into the chamber.

[Tango2020]

Very good info. Thank you both. I think I may error on the side of caution and not leve my mags packed full.
I intend get replacement springs for my XDM for the future as well as the PPQ when available.

Not to get off subject but goodsteel you mentioned your 45. A few weeks ago I took the plunge and bought my 1st 1911. A range Officer for which I need to purchase spare mags for.
They range from $5 to $40 pending which one you buy.

I would like 3 ~5 more mags (7 round is fine) but what is a decent mag for a decent price?
Oh course I will order replacement springs.

[MBTcustom]

A good cheap magazine is made by Chip McCormick, but you get what you pay for. I really like Novak mags.
You cannot go wrong with Wilson combat magazines. They are pricey, but they are worth every penny of it. You will always be able to get springs for them, as well as followers, and base plates (sometimes the base plates get damaged when dropping them on concrete range floors.)
When it comes to 1911 magazines, you get exactly what you pay for. I know that most of the lesser brand's shells are all made by the same company. Back during the last election, you couldn't get any 1911 mags except for Wilson Combat. That's because Wilson makes their own shells and doesn't buy them from Italy. (this may not be current information as Wilson has been subbing out more and more work as their popularity goes up, so take it with a grain of salt.) One thing I can say about Wilson Combat products is that they demand quality and only the best will do. If you ever have a problem they will make it right immediately (again, dated info). I would recommend you become a magazine aficionado and start buying them one at a time over the course of a year until you have 3-5 of them, then buy extra springs for the whole batch. Most folks have no blessed idea how important that stamped piece of metal is to the function and reliability of your weapon! The magazine is more important than your barrel, ramp, slide-face, trigger, or sights. If it don't go bang every time, its a paper weight that doubles as a hole punch in its spare time. I cant tell you how many times the magazine has been the differance between a cussed nightmare of a jamomatic and a slide-iron that runs like a sewing machine.
So, to sum-up:
Chip McCormick
Novak
Wilson Combat
If I need cheap magazines for my weapon, read from top to bottom.
If I am ever going to depend on the weapon for my life or points, read from bottom to top.

[375RUGER]

Do others agree with this? I thought I had read that it wasn't true leaving a full mag had ill effects on the spring.

I thought repetition wore springs and not being over stressed. Am I incorrect?

Don't underestimate the cost cutting measures S&W may have taken to stay competitive. It's an easy decision to save 1 cent or 10 cents or more on 50,000 units of a spring.
The term "spring steel" is really a vague term, there are dozens of steel spring materials with varying properties.
Not a s&w, but I've recently had to replace inferior parts including springs on my wifes 1911. And this after only a few hundred rounds through it. I'm just thankful that we discovered the problem at a range session, this is her primary carry gun.
I have magazines that have been loaded for 20+ years and they function fine, no spring set. I have a pachmayr mag that was given to me 19 years ago, I have no idea how old it actually is but it was well used at the time--it still finctions fine and stays loaded 24/7.
No spring set is a sign of quality manufacturing not cost cutting and half arsed engineering. I partly blame bean counters and partly all these get a degree quick colleges that mass produce engineers and techs with a degree but no education.

So to answer your question, no ill effects of leaving a mag loaded if the spring is the right spring. After all a carry gun will be loaded 24/7.

[MBTcustom]

375Ruger makes good sense, and that advice is worth heeding.
I might also add, that another darn good reason to carry your own reloads (all Ayoob subscribers can move on, thankyouverymuch), or at least shoot off what you carry first every time you go to the range, is that you can see what will happen when you pull your side-arm after it has resided in its holster, unused for 3 weeks, and see if it will function; sweat/rust/belly button lint/gummed up oil/corroded cartridges not withstanding. I was shocked yesterday, because that was the first time my 3.5" 1911 has had a FTF. Usualy I go to the range with my weapon in its holster on my side exactly as it had been since last I cleaned it. I dont blow it off, or wipe it or do anything that I wouldn't normaly do in a SD situation. I pull my weapon and empty it like my life depends on it, reload with the spare clip that rides on my left side and repeat the rapid-fire treatment that the first clip got. I would be very upset if I had even a slow lockup, and I watch very carefully. The only difference with the goat, was that the clip that normally rides shotgun on my side was somehow given the job of primary without my thinking anything of it. It is a 35 year old Colt brand clip. The one that should have been in its place but was actually on my hip was a Novak.
So this whole time I have been carrying a single shot pistol for self defense, because I was nostalgic about this old clip that my dad gave to me, and somehow it got placed in the pistol instead of my new, Novak with the fresh spring.
Comforting huh?

[Bob Krack]

Extremely interesting!

Could try your friends magazine in your firearm?

Dunno but that might tell you something that none of us here could guess.

Bob

[Tango2020]

Sorry bob that I did mention that. I did that combo and it ran fine. Granted I only tried about 3 mags full but no problem and remember his mags were pretty well new so I conclude .........

I am experiencing spring set that is a problem with my style cast bullet. I did shoot some of his factory rounds with no problems in various combinations.

I agree 100% with Goodsteel. I carry what I reload (not the PPQ at this time ) I need to have confidence in it's function before I put it back on my side.
I can't see the point of shooting 1,000s of my reloads which I know where they will hit and how they will react then load up a Critical defense round for protection that I can't afford to shoot 2 mags of in testing.

On the .45 mag issue that was exactly what I was looking for Goodsteel. I will buy the good mags at a slower rate. I don't want to buy more headaches even at a cheaper price.

I hate to think where I would be if I didn't have you guys helping me out,[smilie=b:[smilie=b:[smilie=b:[smilie=b: not just on this issue but the many things I have learned just in reading and searching.
You guys time and experience are priceless. Thank you again for taking the time.

[popper]

Tango2020 - did you mike the mag lips? Your #1 & #3 post show a high angle in the mag. The slide will hold the next round down until it picks it up for chambering. Factory ammo will let it chamber OK, but CB will hang if the nose goes too high. The stronger spring (added spacer) will hold the case head against the lips and keep the nose from going sky high. Another problem with mags is a follower that rocks or drags. I had a prob like yours with factory AR mags. Got double feeds and dented cases. Pmags solved the problem till I changed uppers, Pmags wouldn't work. I adjusted (bent) the mag lips to be the same as the Pmags, works now. Short story, case MUST be at the right angle.