Lee deluxe rifle dies cutting my 30-30 boolits

[DrCaveman]

Like the title says, my lee seating die is cutting a small ring near the tip of my boo lit when seating.

I took a pic but can't seem to upload from the iPad.

It was very consistent, and my guess is that is has mostly to due with the boolit shape. Boolit being used was cast lee c309-150 f. This is a fairly standard shape for 30-30 so I don't get why the dies are having problems.

I'm gonna shoot them anyway, and hope for the best, but what is the cause of this? And should I expect accuracy to suffer?

This happened to me the last time I loaded this boolit but since that was my first time, and I was mostly checking for pressure signs & leading, I let it slide. But now I am trying to refine the load, and this seems like it could pose a problem.

Anyone else experience this type of thing?

[runfiverun]

don't hurt anything.
look at your seater it's most likely cone shaped for a jaxketed soft point.
you might could swap it out for a flat point.
i have other brands of dies do it to some of my boolits too.

[243winxb]

Lee will make you a custom seating stem. http://leeprecision.net/support/index.php?/Knowledgebase/Article/View/42/0/custom-bullet-seating-plug

[Kraschenbirn]

That 'ring' shouldn't really effect performance of your boolits, however, it can be corrected easily enough by filling the cavity of the seating die with glass-bedding compound or hot glue then inserting a well-waxed boolit and, when the compound has hardened, you'll have a seater stem perfectly matched to your boolit profile. This has been a topic of discussion several times in the past and a search of the forum archives will provide detailed instructions for the 'fix'.

Bill

[462]

When I first started casting, Lee seating dies were so problematic that I quit using them. Lyman seating stems are contoured to match their boolit designs, and I use them (the Precision Alignment variety) almost exclusively. For the seater stem/boolit nose mismatches, hot-melt glue or epoxy create a custom fit.

[runfiverun]

a small piece of balled up tinfoil will usually make a temporary one also

[geargnasher]

I use a pneumatic die grinder or drill with a tapered stone grinder bit in it to "flare" the inside 1/16" or so of the seater stem to match the profile of my boolits. This usually adds enough surface area that fits properly to keep from making a substantial ring around the nose. If it's still not enough, I degrease it and fill it with JBWeld and leave a boolit run up in the die overnight while it sets.

It's incorrect to assume that the Lee dies are made for cast boolits, or that the seater stems are, either. They're in fact made for jacketed stuff that most people shoot, that's why they size the case necks to hold .308" boolits firmly instead of .310" or greater, and why the crimp ledge will shave the front band on many .311" boolits, and why the seater plugs don't fit the noses. Lee has a custom service for a reason.

Gear

[heathydee]

You could try reversing the seating stem . That is what I do for flat nosed boolits .

[Hang Fire]

I use a pneumatic die grinder or drill with a tapered stone grinder bit in it to "flare" the inside 1/16" or so of the seater stem to match the profile of my boolits. This usually adds enough surface area that fits properly to keep from making a substantial ring around the nose. If it's still not enough, I degrease it and fill it with JBWeld and leave a boolit run up in the die overnight while it sets.

It's incorrect to assume that the Lee dies are made for cast boolits, or that the seater stems are, either. They're in fact made for jacketed stuff that most people shoot, that's why they size the case necks to hold .308" boolits firmly instead of .310" or greater, and why the crimp ledge will shave the front band on many .311" boolits, and why the seater plugs don't fit the noses. Lee has a custom service for a reason.

Gear

I often have to take sand paper to break the sharp edge of the stem seater, it doesn't take much. Just put seater stem in drill press, piece of sand paper over tip of rubber pencil eraser or such and in a few seconds the job it done.

[DrCaveman]

Ok, thanks for the responses. Looks like there are a couple of easy fixes for the ring itself.

As for contacting lee about custom dies/die parts, how many of you all pursue this in 30-30? It makes sense that a more flexible/forgiving seating stem would be useful for my relatively soft lead bullets compared to jacketed. But as for the sizing, I am basically trying to replicate factory loads which are at least half-jackets in all cases. My calipers show the same neck diameter the same as my hand loaded rounds, and the factory rounds shoot awesome, which is why I've loved the marlin 336 for 20+ years.

I know that many people report better success in a microgroove marlin using larger (310+) boolits, but am I foolish to think that my sized 309's are anything other than a lesson in futility?

Well, time to go try out my 8.5 gr unique loads, plain based. I think it should be good for plinking, maybe 50 yd target shooting.

[Griz44mag]

I shoot 4 different 308 projectiles. I ordered some stems from Lee and custom fit each to a specific bullet. I had to do the same thing with the Lyman sizer top punches. I put them in a Dewalt drill motor and used a combination of dremel tips, sandpaper and steel wool to get the proper clearances and JB WELD to fill up the sharp nose cone holes where needed. I hope you get a lot of enjoyment out of doing this yourself, because I did. And it that just isn,t your cup of tea, there are several folks here on the forums that I have seen offer this service for a really great price. If you elect to use a third party to get a good fit, be sure and send one of you bullets with it so they can get a good fit.

[Centaur 1]

I know that many people report better success in a microgroove marlin using larger (310+) boolits, but am I foolish to think that my sized 309's are anything other than a lesson in futility?

Well, time to go try out my 8.5 gr unique loads, plain based. I think it should be good for plinking, maybe 50 yd target shooting.

I never had much success with that boolit in my 336. I think part of the problem is that the nose is a smaller diameter than the groove diameter of mg rifling. When I load this boolit in my 30-06 the front half touches the rifling which helps to align the boolit with the bore. I can get ok accuracy out to 50 yards when loaded light with Unique or Trail Boss, but I bought a Ranch Dog mold and haven't use the Lee mold since.

[DrCaveman]

Well, I'd call 8.5 unique a pretty nice load. Got as good of groupings as I had hoped, and as far as I can tell the ring made no difference. No leading either with 2 different lubes.

Of course there is still plenty of room for improvement but I am not enough of a magician to score moa with iron sights. Really not sure how you can focus on the target and front sight at the same time at 100 yds well enough to print moa, but since many claim to do it I will not try to call their bluff.

Anyway, I'll post a few pics of my (good to me) groups at 75 yds, that seemed a good distance for my testing.

Seriously, how in tarnations can anyone simultaneously focus on a blade 2 feet in front of their head and a 1" dot at 100 yds distance? Shenanigans? I could see delivering a 4-6" group at 100 yds but even military action does not necessitate better than that.

[geargnasher]

It's not the 309" part so much as the .299 part that's the problem with that boolit in the Microgroove Marlins, although .311" would more than likely be better because that's probably how big the throat entrance is.

Look into Ranch Dog for the 311-165 and dip lube them in liquid Alox, works great in the MG Marlins because there's no parallel bore-riding section. You will need the .311" to help take up chamber neck slop and get a straight start down the bore.

Gear

[runfiverun]

you focus on the front sight and it's alignment in the same place on the target.
i usually focus back and forth a time or two.
then the rear sight alignment one more time then the target then back to the front sight before squeezing off the shot

[fcvan]

DrCaveman, I had a similar problem with that boolit, only with my lubri-sizer top punch making a profound ring. I took some JB Weld to it an made it a flat point punch. Problem solved. Since I already had a ring I don't know if the seating plug does it too so I'll watch for that. Are you in Grants Pass or Cave Junction? I still bounce back and forth from Colorado to Crescent City. Frank

PS, there is a pretty slick way to focus on rear sight/front sight/target the old trick shooters still use. It's really no trick, PM me

[DrCaveman]

Here are the groups I got with the "ringed" boolits. Im pretty happy with them, considering my limitations with iron sights. Ability, not vision, Im a solid 20/20 who seems unable to divine the exact center of a 1/16" front sight bead.

Go easy on me, these are my first posted groups.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_226994fd6a1c7a43d4.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=5570)

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_226994fd6a202972ad.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=5571)

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_226994fd6a1ac1fd42.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=5569)

The second pic used medium coat LLA. My group at 75 was not worth showing, but I'll take the blame.