if one sells boolits.....

[quiknot]

was just wondering...if one sells boolits...do they need any special license or anything like if it were powder being sold...just wondering since i have so much lead / ingots to last into my great-grand kids days (when i my boys have some)...just wondering

[Blammer]

as long as it is not "ammunition" and just the lead bullet, I don't think there is any rules for it, cause technically it's just a molded piece of metal.... :D

[Marshal Kane]

Believe if you sell to any extent, your state will want you to apply for a business license so they can monitor your business and collect sales taxes. There may be a requirement to obtain a city business license. Someone may be interested in how you dispose of any hazardous waste and is your workplace up to code. Also, you may wish to carry insurance in the event you produce a defective product and/or someone misuses your product which results in an injury. We live in a world where no one assumes responsibility for their actions anymore and the first thought that comes to mind when things go south is to sue. Best to do your homework before putting your products on the market. Just my dos centavos!

[garandsrus]

Quiknot,

My understanding is that you need a class 06 FFL to manufacture and sell bullets. The implication in the word "manufacture" is that you intend to sell them. You don't need the license to cast or reload for your own use.

Here's some supporting info:

Type 06 (http://www.atf.gov/firearms/fflc/ffl/ffl_types.htm#type06) - MANUFACTURER OF AMMUNITION FOR FIREARMS other than ammunition for destructive devices or armor piercing ammunition.

The Gun Control Act defines ammunition as:

(A4) (http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#a4) What kinds of ammunition are covered by the GCA?
Ammunition includes cartridge cases, primers, bullets or propellant powder designed for use in any firearm other than an antique firearm.

Type 06 Fee:
$ 30.00 for three (3) years.

I have ordered and received the packet to apply for a Type 06 license but have not filled out the information yet. I don't plan to sell many boolits, but by getting the FFL it makes this a "business" which means that my molds and materials should be tax deductible. I would need to shoot a fair number of the boolits for Quality Control purposes. It would probably even make the guns deductible as you gotta have something to shoot the boolits out of. I have another business that will offset my possible losses in the boolit making business... If your business doesn't make money 2 or 3 out of 5 years (or something like that) the IRS will declare your business a "hobby" instead of a business and you will lose all the deductions, so you need to make the boolit business part of another business. Make sure you talk with a tax professional before doing any of this instead of relying on the advice of a fellow caster...

John

[OLPDon]

Garandsus
Very Good advice It not nice to try fool Mother Nature or the Or IRS.
Don

[happy7]

Garandsrus is right. I had one of the BATF guys from Little Rock on the phone one day and asked him about making bullets. He said bullets, as a component of ammunition, is considered ammunition and so requires an 06 FFL. But he said they are not hard to get and the price is very reasonable at only $10 a year. An added advantage is that you can get a discount on reloading supplies from various suppliers. I have been considering doing this but am also considering moving and thought I would wait to decide about the move first.

[pipehand]

Years ago I had a Manufacturers license, but it was for the manufacture of ammunition--loaded rounds. Never did get anywhere with it as continued requests to the ATF for the proper forms for reporting excise tax under the Pittman -Robertson Act only cause them to send me stacks and stacks of form 4473's. I never was a gun dealer! There is no license required for the manufacture of Bullets (or Boolits)! Anyway, as long as you don't manufacture loaded ammunition the ATF need to be just as involved as if you were casting fishing sinkers.

[Wayne Smith]

Grandsrus and happy7 are right. A bullet is a component of ammunition, not just a molded object. As such an FFL 06 is required. I have one for just that purpose, and just renewed it.

The first time I had two nice young ladies come out for a visit to 'inspect' my 'place of business'. I made it very clear that a) this was a hobby, not a business, but may result in a few sales, b) my city does not require a business license under a certain amount of sales per year and c) my wife is a geologist who works for DEQ (Department of Environmental Quality) and as such she will make sure I dispose of waste properly. These statements addressed most of their issues and we had a nice visit. One of the ladies was training the other, so we went through the whole process anyway. It wasn't bad.

I just renewed and have heard nothing from my local office yet.

If you will sell any, get the license. It's cheap insurance.

[lar45]

I was all set to argue against the liscence for cast bullets. Then I decided to look it up first. Good thing. I would have been inserting foot in mouth.
The Gun Control Act of 1968, Public Law 90-618
Chapter 44 Firearms
Sec. 921. Definitions.
(17)(A) The term "ammunition" means ammunition or cartridge cases, primers, bullets, or propellent powder designed for use in any firearm.
http://www.atf.gov/pub/fire-explo_pub/gca.htm

Here's a link to the NFA
http://www.atf.gov/pub/fire-explo_pub/nfa.htm

[pipehand]

OK, maybe I'm wrong at this point in time, but the time I had that license was 15 years ago. If you look at what is referenced, the GCA of 1968, there were some changes made in the Eighties that did away with some of the requirements of the original law, for example, ammunition logbooks for sales at retail. The ATF and other Bureaus are famous for writing their own "definitions" irrespective of the law. At the time I was involved in commercial enterprise, a customer could provide me with his brass to reload, and there would be no excise tax incurred under the presumption that it was already paid once when the original loads were manufactured. Refiling a client's empties was considered a service not covered by the excise tax. If, however, I provided the brass, even if it was on an exchange basis, the 10% excise tax would apply.
The requirement for a manufacturers license to make projectiles is completely new to me, but I wouldn't put it past them to "define" or interpret whatever they want to in order to gain more control and collect fees. I suspect the small businesses that make slings and holsters will soon be pulled into this mess, since it is firearms related.
Remember that the ATF is a tax collection branch, and for ammo, their raison d'entre was the Pittman-Robertson act that provided for an excise tax to be used for federal conservation and wildlife habitat purposes. Unfortunately, those monies collected go into the "general fund" and like Social Security taxes are squandered and not applied to the original cause for collection. Also, my paper punching has nothing to do with wildlife. Maybe they should only be able to collect the excise tax on rounds actually fired at game?

[OLPDon]

Has anyone heard the fraze "I'm from the goverment and I'm here to help".
Nuff said.
Don

[buck1]

It most likely costs 50Million $ a year in tax dollars to have this usless dumb law on the books.

[lar45]

I used to have the ammo manufacturing liscence and do remember the part about reloading brass for someone did not have to go in the log or tax paid. I even had to pay tax on any ammo that was consumed in the course of conducting my business. I do think that the any component of ammo is a new thing. It does pay to look things up.