H&A Swing barrel percussion

[Crawdaddy]

I am trying to get some information on a rifle I have the opportunity to buy.

It is:

Hopkins and Allen
Swing barrel, octagon. (2 barrels)
45 caliber percussion

It is a double barrel over/under rifle with one hammer.
You shoot the second barrel by twisting it clockwise 180 degrees

The guy wants 450 bucks. Good or bad deal? The gun is in mint condition.

I googled this gun and cant find anything on it.

[451 Pete]

Crawdaddy ,
In looking I found in a old copy of Guns Illustrated 1974 a Hopkins and Allen Turnbarrel O/U Rifle listed. No much information on it is listed but it specs. at 45 cal. bbls. , bbls. 28 inchs in length, weight about 8 1/2 lbs , walnut stock, blade front and open notch rear sights, cresent buttplate. Manufactured by High Standard. 1974 price as listed $139.95.


Hope this helps a bit .... Pete

[Boz330]

I remember seeing them but don't remember much else about them other than I thought that it was a really good idea, especially for deer hunting.

Bob

[twotoescharlie]

I had one of these quite a few years ago. fairly accurate, do not remember the twist on it. had a weak hammer spring. two ramrods, one on each side of the barrels. when sighting in alternate barrels as shooting a single barrel will pull sights off target due to expanding of a hot barrel against a cold barrel as they are welded together. got aggravated with it and traded it off.


TTC

[pietro]

I am trying to get some information on a rifle I have the opportunity to buy.
It is:
Hopkins and Allen
Swing barrel, octagon. (2 barrels)
45 caliber percussion

It is a double barrel over/under rifle with one hammer. You shoot the second barrel by twisting it clockwise 180 degrees The guy wants 450 bucks. Good or bad deal? The gun is in mint condition.
I googled this gun and cant find anything on it.

FWIW, they were never referred to as "swing barrel" rifles, since the O/U barrels were swiveled/turned around an axle.

Numrich owned the name "Hopkins & Allen" in the 1970's, and sold those, along with various underhammer frontstuffers.

Later, besides the Numrich Arms version, CVA imported an Italian-made version for awhile & Iver Johnson also marketed the CVA version.

$450 today for a pristine example is a good price IMHO - especially in those jurisdictions where a quick 2nd hunting shot would be appreciated even though the carrying of more than a single arm for hunting is prohibited.

.

[waksupi]

They are known as Wender rifles generally, as that maker was the one who made a lot of them back in the day.

[KCSO]

But NOT good for deer hunting in Nebrask as you MUST leave one barrel empty. Check your state laws. As to the H and A version they turn mechanism has to be tight for accuracy.

[Crawdaddy]

I decided to buy it. I'll post pictures tonight or tomorrow. The guy kept referring to it a a swing barrel, it is actual called a turn barrel as stamped on the gun.

Thanks for all the input. It is much appreciated.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[Crawdaddy]

Below are some pics.

Any recomendations on powder, charge, patch and ball diameter?

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8157/7166482907_5447aa3f63_c.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/cjhollic/7166482907/)

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8007/7351689892_72abb42d0b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/cjhollic/7351689892/)

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7221/7351688324_f89913aab7.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/cjhollic/7351688324/)
Turn barrel (http://www.flickr.com/photos/cjhollic/7351688324/) by Crawdaddy Mark (http://www.flickr.com/people/cjhollic/), on Flickr

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7071/7351687326_14e3894cff.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/cjhollic/7351687326/)
Turn barrel (http://www.flickr.com/photos/cjhollic/7351687326/) by Crawdaddy Mark (http://www.flickr.com/people/cjhollic/), on Flickr

[KCSO]

437 ball and .015 patch with a natural lube and from 45 to 65 grains of FFFg powder. This is what use to work best in the old Numerich barrels. Thinner patch and 440 ball willl work too if you can't get the older mould.

[Longwood]

Nice rifle,,,,
I am jealous.

Some people on here make their own black powder.
There are several conversations about it scattered around.

[Crawdaddy]

I took it out to the range today. What an experience. The first barrel I had to put powder under the nipple manually to get it to fire. The second it wouldn't discharge at all. I pulled the nipple out of the first and it discharged.

I think I need two more nipples.

The real problem I have with it is that it takes about 15 pounds of pressure to pull the trigger.

I disassembled the lock, de-burred and polished the sear and it helped a little.

I pull the trigger with the hammer all the way down and it is still pretty hard to pull. With the lock out the trigger pulls easy.

Any suggestions? Mainspring too heavy?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[waksupi]

Get a breech face scraper, and clean that first. That may cure your ignition problems. I couldn't tell you what is wrong with the rest of it, without seeing it in person. Don't be polishing and "fixing" things, if you don't know why you are doing it. That can get expensive.

[Crawdaddy]

I took it to the range yesterday to sight it in. What a bear! I solved my misfire problem with 2 new nipples. These things have a 1/4 x 32 nipple. I could only find one place that had them. I guess it is an odd ball size.

I finally got both barrels to hit within an inch or so of each other.

I got the best accuracy with 55 grs of FFF, a 440 ball and a .015 patch. Seems a little loose so I may play with that a little.

I was able to get about 2 inch groups at 50 yards. I'll continue to play with it and maybe I can do better.

I was able to get the trigger pull weight significantly lower.

I have never hunted with a traditional muzzle loader before. I realize this is a loaded question (pun intended), BUT what is a good distance to draw the line at for an ethical shot at a deer with a PRB? It sounds like round balls lose energy fast.