WWYD??? 1911 80% build

[Dakine]

So I just got into the pre-buy on 1911's as an 80%, the cost is somewhat more reasonable than KT Ord who I'm not even sure if he's really in business anymore or not??? Ares Armor of Oceanside CA, and I think this is related to the TM project, but I'm not exactly sure. Anyway, pre-buy is $99 for the frame +$10 shipping +7 tax, and then there's like another additional $99 due before delivery. This is probably a finance boost and gauge of how much market there is in order for them to complete the project. I have no freakin idea how much a parts kit, or even all the other individual parts will cost....

So my Questions are this... (hence the WWYD title)

I already have a Colt 1991 and a Rock Island Tactical. Those are both fairly sturdy and other than some front sight issues I'm working through on the RI, they are both great for target shooting at the range and I'd trust both with my life against a hallway zombie if SHTF!

So if you were going to build a brand new spanking 1911 from the ground up... what would you do???

I want it uber reliable
I want to do this money is no object! I have 2 working .45's already, so I'm perfectly willing to make this a work in progress "project gun" even if it takes six to twelve months to complete and I end up spending absurd amounts!
I dont even know the costs of parts kits, and who are the better suppliers for reliable pieces... I've built up a few AR-15's and one AR-10, but this is completely new to me!

I haven't shot any kind of competitions but I'm not opposed to it either. I dont know how the nuances of that would affect this build or its price? I guess that would have to be mulled over and decided if I want to get into that part of the shooting hobby.

I'm open to all kinds of suggestions and I look forward to hearing "what would you do" or want if you were building a new 1911 :)

Dak

[Frank46]

Don't mean to be rude here but get the springfield RO has all the bells and whistles for less than you would spend having one built from the ground up. My springfield cost $1200 and was built for another shooter. Found and bought it the same day. And does it ever shoot. If the factory bbl bothers you then get either a knowlin or kart bbl with fitted bushing it will shoot. Frank

[Dakine]

Don't mean to be rude here but get the springfield RO has all the bells and whistles for less than you would spend having one built from the ground up. My springfield cost $1200 and was built for another shooter. Found and bought it the same day. And does it ever shoot. If the factory bbl bothers you then get either a knowlin or kart bbl with fitted bushing it will shoot. Frank

That's not rude, just another opinion, and I'll look at it, thanks!

I think part of what is driving this though cant be solved by that buy, I like the idea of exercising my rights to build this gun, and I like that it can be a project and I can choose each of the pieces.

Thanks again for your suggestion!

[DRNurse1]

Are you trying to learn how to build your own 1911?
Do you have the machining skills and tools needed to complete this project?
Can you test your project in a safe environment?
Do you have a resource/mentor to help you through the tough spots?

If: Yes-Yes-Yes-Yes, then this is a great investment. You can learn a lot by building your own gun.

Otherwise, (any No or Maybe to ANY of the above questions) you may be better off buying a purpose built gun from a reliable source. Just my $.02.

[Dakine]

Are you trying to learn how to build your own 1911?
Do you have the machining skills and tools needed to complete this project?
Can you test your project in a safe environment?
Do you have a resource/mentor to help you through the tough spots?

If: Yes-Yes-Yes-Yes, then this is a great investment. You can learn a lot by building your own gun.

Otherwise, (any No or Maybe to ANY of the above questions) you may be better off buying a purpose built gun from a reliable source. Just my $.02.

It's all brokered through a shoppe that provides access to the professional equipment and expertise that makes this happen.

DO I? No.
DO They? Yes.


It's a perfectly safe way to do it, but no, I would not just grab pieces of blank metal and some steel jigs and a drill press and start hammering away... and there's folks even here on this board that could make even that work!!!!! but I'm not one of them :)

[flounderman]

I started to build one from parts some years ago. I think I ended up with a rock island complete slide and the frame says pac. modesto ca. I think it was a complete frame. issues were the front sight. I would definately go with a dovetail, and ramping the barrel to where it feeds everything. I would pick up a used one and go from there. I had an auto ordanance that shot well, just as is.

[kywoodwrkr]

Sounds to me you are being expected to help someone do their tool buying.
I opted to buy two STI frames and then will select my slides and etc as the specs for the two frames emerge. I also opted for Newlin cuts.
If I'd wanted to have a good reliable pistol, I'd have kept the Colt I bought.
I just want to tinker, measure, swear a little, remeasure, rehone, remeasure and etc to my content.
Just a whole lot of self satisfaction doing that.
Will even probably make milling jig for creating grip panels. Maybe even cut checkering in by machine. That decision will be mine to make later.
Besides, I can get $1-200, or less, for 1911 parts at one time better than I can one wad of a $1000+ without figuring there are other projects needing that much(1k) money. Like car front end, truck fuel pumps, truck body work & repainting etc etc.
I'd suggest a good 1911/A1 building/rebuilding book. Kuhnhausen is the one I refer to more than anything else.
Also a set of 1911 drawings I have.
Good luck, and just 'get-r-done', well at least started! :p

[John Taylor]

A couple weeks ago another smith came to the shop and handed me an 80% 1911 frame. Looks like a great paper weight. While I do have the tools and knowledge to finish it I don't have the time. This is a casting with no holes drilled and the rails are not cut. Also picked up an unfinished 1892 Winchester that I am making time to finish. Got it almost ready to put together with a 26" octagon barrel in 44-40. Sense I get to put my own S/N on it I can choose the number and of course it will be number one, just for bragging rights. I get lots of customers coming in with rare guns showing me their finds and I want to be able to brag a bit also.
Sounds like a neat opportunity to be able to do your own frame and have help to get it done. You would need a good mill and some special tooling to take a casting to a finished product, and of course someone who knows how to use the tools.

[Cmemiss]

To me your best options would be; 1. STI frames (pick one, along with parts) 2. Fusion kits (lots of options) or a full custom from SVI for major buck$. Then there is always Wilson, Brown, et.al.

[KCSO]

Depends on what you are going to use the gun for and what you really need. Most folks tend to **** up a carry gun with a lot of usless acessories that look cool and do nothing. If it is a competition or target gun then go with what works for you. I use Caspian frames and slides and then use the parts the customer decides on. Unless you are a class A shooter you wil never be able to tell the difference between a springfield or a nowlin barrel. get quality parts and get the parts the require fitting and then take your time and do it right.

My personal carry gun has Wolf Springs, Cylinder and slide hammer and sear, Ed brown safety trimmed to fit and Ed Brown slide stop. Wilson Barrel and bushing and Wilson pins. NO guide rod, no oversize slide stop no mag well additions, and a good set of sights to suit.

[MBTcustom]

I have built 1911s. You cannot fathom the number of mistakes that you are going to make doing your first one. If it were me, and cost were no object and neither was time, I would buy a G.I. reproduction for $400 or so, and turn it into a full custom gun.
1. Replace all of the parts with oversize aftermarket stuff from Wilson combat.
2. squeeze and peen the frame to slide fit, and lap them into eachother with diamond lapping compound.
3. learn how to custom fit the barrel bushing, thumb safety, barrel link, ramp, and mag release.
4. Learn how to install a beavertail grip safety, and how to tune it.
5. Install a set of Novak sights, front and rear.
6. Learn how to tune the trigger for a light, crisp, reliable pull.
7. Replace the recoil spring and install a two piece guide.
8. Make a custom set of checkered grips and inlay an insignia in them so that it looks professional and clean.
9, Stipple the top of the slide and the front of the grip.
10. Send it off for a profesional bluing job.
If you can get through all that, and it feeds every kind of ammo you throw at it, then you can be sure that you have the skills needed to build a true custom, and more importantly, you will know what to look for, and what you like in a gun. I did this about 10 years ago, and I'm very glad I did. If I made some of the mistakes that I made on that first one, to a true custom matched slide/frame, I would have cried. One of the other things that I learned through that project was how to correctly fix a screw-up, and I managed to avoid the really bad ones. Now I feel very comfortable working on 1911's of every shape and size and there is certainly a lot of water under the bridge since that first project. I am mechanicaly inclined and very familiar with all the tools needed to do a custom, but I would never, ever, think of making my first attempt on an expensive STI frame. There is a lot of hand fitting that goes into this. You aren't just going to slap a bunch of parts together like reassembling an already built 1911! This takes a solid knowledge of the gun and the right way to tune every peice/part. No ameture is going to get it even close to being right the first time, even with a lot of help, so make the first one something you dont mind crying over. Then, after you have learned what to watch for and what needs to be done to what, when, and where, you can feel much better about jumping into the full custom. It is also a whole lot of fun to do in this way, you will enjoy the heck out of both projects, and you wont get disillusioned when you make a bad mistake. Build the first one, then build the second one right, then go back and fix the first one and you will be right where you need to be. Not only will you have two very fine 1911s that you know what is in them, but you will never see another "broken" 1911 or a parts gun, ever again. heh heh.

[375RUGER]

Like Tim said but use Nowlin parts instead--:kidding:Tim--Wilson makes some nice stuff.

I built one myself with an AMT slide and frame. I couldn't afford to mess anything up so I made durn sure that I knew what I was doing and when I was doing it.
Carbon steel slide and frame will be more forgiving than SS. SS frame and slide will gall in a heartbeat when you start to tighten things up.

I like gunsmith fit parts instead of prefit.
I want to build another and hope to be doing so in the next year or so. It will be for carry-maybe.

Good Luck and have fun.

[MBTcustom]

Also, get "Pistolsmithing by George C. Nonte, Jr." It has detailed photographs and describes how to do everything!!!
He even goes into detail on how to cut a government model across the slide and grip, and them weld it back together to make a super compact 45 auto. Really, gunsmithing books like this are a rarity and are very special. Its about 2" thick and I have read it cover to cover several times. Its just a wealth of information all in one place.

[Moonie]

I was thinking about a titanium officers or commander frame from Caspian and a commander SS length slide for my concealed. Any thoughts on that?

[skeettx]

BOTTOM LINE with money no object??

Buy a KIMBER

DONE!!

p.s. sell the frame

[MBTcustom]

Oh come now skeettx, any fool can buy a halfway custom 1911. The guy wants to be able to say that he built his own gun. Admirable quest in my opinion, although it is expensive and time consuming, but he said he doesn't mind all the time, and his cup runneth over in the spare change department.

[skeettx]

He He He,
YES
I see your point !!!
Spend all that money, spend all that time and wind up with a second rate gun
YUP!! Works for me
ALSO Been there, done that, and YES, I DO have the T-Shirt
Mike

[MBTcustom]

ALSO Been there, done that, and YES, I DO have the T-Shirt
Me too! Turns out tie dye doesn't match my eyes, so I kept at it until I could git-er-done right, but even with all my experiance in machine shop and parts/swap gunsmithing, the first one was a real dog. Don't get me wrong, it had it where it counts, but it was a dog of a gun!
It was fun to go to the range next to a guy who had the real thing and let him shoot my rat-rod lookin 1911 and see him raise his eyebrows, but its even better to go with a fine 1911 that has "handmade" written all over it. I ended up selling the first one to a guy at work for what I gave for the original gun. I kind of regret that in retrospect, because I can always build another custom, but nothing that has that much blood sweat and tears wrapped up in it.

[skeettx]

YES
I have a wonderful slide that came out of Vietnam with 7.62x25 barrel and magazine.
The barrel started as a 45 and was sleeved with a 30 cal barrel and chambered. The mag
is a 1911 45 mag with the front cut away to allow for the longer 7.62 to work in the gun.
The slide had a rivited insert to center the cartridge.
Now it is conveted back and has a Kart Match barrel, etc, etc.
Mike

[MBTcustom]

YES
I have a wonderful slide that came out of Vietnam with 7.62x25 barrel and magazine.
The barrel started as a 45 and was sleeved with a 30 cal barrel and chambered. The mag
is a 1911 45 mag with the front cut away to allow for the longer 7.62 to work in the gun.
The slide had a rivited insert to center the cartridge.
Now it is conveted back and has a Kart Match barrel, etc, etc.
You win.

[Moonie]

Of all the 1911's out there, I'd not have another Kimber. I had one, it was a nice gun, but their QC has gone down hill badly since I owned one 10 or so years ago.

[tenx]

if you're going to build from the ground up you can't go wrong using a Caspian slide or frame. the quality and durability are there and the prices are good. i've got 7 1911's built on Caspian frames and several with Caspian slides. no regrets

[Defcon-One]

I have a Kimber Pro CDP II in .45 ACP which I have carried colcealed almost exclusively for 5 or 6 years. I shoot it often.

It is 100% reliable, very light, powerful and accurate. Never had a single problem with it. I use high qaulity magazines (Wilson 47Ds) and ammo (Federal Hydrashocks) it will save my life when ever I need it too as long as I do my part.

That's is what I did, so that is what I'd recommend.

If you don't want a Kimber then buy a top of the line Colt and have a qualified gunsmith go thru it to make the changes that you think it needs. (Colt Light Weight Commander comes to mind!)

I have built AK-47's, AR15's and a few custom guns, but I would never build my own 1911 for self defense.

For fun YES, for the experience YES, but not for a life and death situation. For that, I want better than what anyone can do at home. With CNC and a whole factory backing them, manufacturers have an advatage that I want behind me when I go up against an armed bad guy. (He'll have a factory built gun.) I want my gun to be factory built, better tested, better trained, more accurate and more reliable than his is! Your life will depend on it!

Otherwise, I think goodsteel covered it all in his post #11. The only thing that I would add is, do a stainless steel gun. It's easier to finish (bead blasted or emery cloth) is all you need. Easier to fix mistakes, scratches or dings, too.

[MBTcustom]

The only thing that I would add is, do a stainless steel gun. It's easier to finish (bead blasted or emery cloth) is all you need. Easier to fix mistakes, scratches or dings, too.
Good point! Another advantage of SS is that it wont rust while being in contact with your sweat day after day. My carry guns pretty much end up going from a factory blue to a rust blue over the years. I pull the gun out and wipe off the rust and moisture every night, and let the holster air dry while I sleep, then its ready to go again tomorrow. The first few years are a vicious fight against creeping rust that does not end untill every orafice that could rust has rusted and been burnished back.
SS solves all these problems right out of the gate. Plus, if you ever pick up a scratch, just look up your build notes to remember what the final grit and media was that you finished the gun with, and you can whip out that sand-paper/scotchbright/ steel wool etc etc and bring the finish right back to where it should be.

[David2011]

Lots of good advice here, especially from Goodsteel. There is enough to learn building a 1911 that already has the holes drilled and the rails cut correctly without making it a machining project as well. One of the $400 Philippine GI spec guns would give you a reasonably priced complete start on a project gun. It would allow you to test the gun out of the box and gauge your improvements as you improve it. If you want to start with a frame, I agree with using a Caspian frame and slide. That would be my preference.

If you want to go carbon steel and carry it later, you could Parkerize it instead of bluing. I Parkerized one of my carry guns a few years ago and it hasn't rusted since. Use good parts. It's worth it in the end.

Building an AR is basically assembling parts. Building a 1911 means hand fitting virtually every part. One decision to make up front is how accurate you want the gun to be and its intended purpose. A gun that shots 1-1/2" at 50 yards has to be fitted much tighter than one that will hold 2-1/2" at 25 yards. Fitted oversized parts can help create a very nice, accurate gun that is still completely reliable.

I learned a great deal about 1911s working on a gun that I used for local weeknight matches. If I did something that made it less reliable, I was punished immediately. Likewise, making a positive change gave an immediate reward. That gun has since given me six years of reliable performance and has been tuned to shoot very light recoiling loads for shooting steel and practical matches. Tuning for light loads made it even more of a challenge but it's a hoot to shoot a .45 ACP that has all the recoil of a .38 Special on 2.5 grains of Bullseye. Now it can go back to full power loads now just by swapping recoil springs.

If you lap a slide to a frame, apply lapping compound to one side of the frame/slide at a time- never to both sides at the same time. Keep the side not being lapped clean and well oiled to help prevent getting the slide stuck on the frame. There are some things that should just be politely accepted without question so as to save the person volunteering the info some embarrassment. :oops:

David

[smokeywolf]

I have not contemplated manufacturing a model 1911. I carried my original Colt 1911 (mfg. 1918) for 7 years while I was a bodyguard. Thought about getting a compact, but never really felt the need. Never had a single doubt about my GI issue 60 year old Colt. In thousands of rounds I've never had a failure to feed anything; including cast SWCs.

I do think building one is a very worthwhile endeavor. goodsteel is absolutely right. Stainless is the way to go. Titanium would be nice and light; too light. However, there is one thing you can do with titanium that you can't do with stainless. You can anodize titanium.

goodsteel may have just added another project to my list; a 1911 stainless compact.

smokeywolf

[gcollins]

Mister D,
I am a little confused? I read your first post and your 2 replies, and for one thing I might not be understanding your question?

"So I just got into the pre-buy on 1911's as an 80%" Who has put toghter a goup buy on 1911's -80% done? And if that is what you mean, by your 2 replies they confuse me, are you going to build this 80% frame? If that is true I hope you are a laid back person! I have one 80% frame built and most likely never again! I bought a Forster 1911 frame they are about 95% done[smilie=b:[smilie=b:[smilie=b:
I thought it would be a cake walk:groner: `My goal was to hand fit a low dollar 1911 build, and have it as smooth runing as a custom $2000.00 entry level gun that these places sell. My 80% 1911 frame is my shooter, the reason my Foster build isn't my shooter is the sights, on the Foster build I have 1911 A1 sights, and on my 80% build I have a King High Ramp front and on the back i have a very Old Wilson Combat non adj., and when I bring it up to fire it's just dead on:D
I would highly suggest buying a Forster frame and upper, there will be enough fitting to keep you busy for a good long time! If you zip right threw that, you are ready for a 80% frame.
Greg
Please don't take this the wrong way, I am just trying to understand what you are buying or doing!

[MBTcustom]

For the record, I carry a compact "officers length" 1911. Its a cheapo RIA that I don't mind getting scratches in, and I don't mind loosing to the police if I ever get in a firefight, but I did due diligence on the internal workings.
Its a solid steel frame, but its not too heavy and it shoots like a dream. It is like a Tasmanian devil, it eats everything I load in the magazine (including 40S&W as I found out a few weeks ago) I can cover a 5 gallon bucket at 30 yards rapid fire. It holds 7 in the mag, one in the pipe, and I carry an extra mag on my left hip to balance things out.
I came to the conclusion several years ago, that sometimes less is more. I wrap safety tape across the front of the frame and tuck it under the grips. I made the grips to fit my hands. I tuned the ambi-safety to my liking, and polished the slide face and the ramp. Its a bit of an ugly duckling, but its a defense tool not a show-piece.
Its the one on the bottom:
http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l481/goodsteel/IMG_2120.jpg
Here it is with my self-designed carrying system:
http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l481/goodsteel/100_5675.jpg
By the way, It has Novak magazines and I keep the springs fresh.