45 whitworth boolit

[RhodeHunter]

I figured this would be good timing since there's a couple of threads about similar boolit lately.

I have a 33.5 inch barrel, 1 turn in 13 inches, .453 bore, .457 groove.

I would be interested in trying a long heavy boolit, lubed, NOT paper patched.

So what is the mold I would try if a loobed boolit is worth trying?

I do have a Lyman 450 lube/sizer.

The dies available in that range are .450, .451, .452, .454 Which one?

So, which mold, and which die?

(the purpose is deer hunting between 50-150 yds)

[Tatume]

Hello,

http://www.lymanproducts.com/lyman/bullet-casting/mould-details-blackpowder.php?entryID=2

Bullet # : 457121PH

Grain: 475gr

Single Cavity # : 2641121

Designed for Navy Arms Parker-Hale Whitworth rifles with 1/20" twists. Casts a nominal .456/.453" diameter in pure lead. Shoot as-cast, lube by hand.

[idahoron]

I have the 457121. It shoots very well in my Green Mountain .458 with 1-18 twist.

http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/2250Whitworth_455.jpg

I got to ask why not paper patch? Ron

[Nobade]

I have a Pedersoli mould that throws a .451", 535gr. boolit that would also likely work in your rifle. It is made for the Gibbs rifle they make, and if you find one it would certainly knock down a deer at 150 yds.

BTW, what sort of rifle do you have that is cut with such a fast twist? I am wondering if you wouldn't have to get upwards of 650 gr. to get it to shoot really well.

[RhodeHunter]

I have the 457121. It shoots very well in my Green Mountain .458 with 1-18 twist.

http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/2250Whitworth_455.jpg

I got to ask why not paper patch? Ron

Because you bought all the good paper. :)

I know it's silly - I am just afraid to try it.

[idahoron]

There is nothing to be afraid of. Here are the facts. Paper patching protects the barrel from the lead, and it protects the lead from the barrel. When done right it will bring your accuracy to a whole new level. Remember the first time you kissed a girl? It is like that, but the paper patch won't let you down.
Ron

[451 Pete]

Rhodehunter,

Just a couple of things you might want to keep in mind. The bullet fit to your bore is very important. In the long range shooting game and for target the ideal fit of the bullet is .001 less than the bore diameter which allows the bullet to load easily from shot to shot when shooting with a slightly dirty bore from fouling ... that is wiping and cleaning somewhat between shots and keeping the fouling consistant. But with target shooting the rifle is only loaded and taken to the shooting line and then shot.
You may consider that in hunting there is a greater chance of the same bullet moving away from a powder charge, the rifle being loaded with a clean bore and then carried in the field. Should this happen you may end up with a ruined barrel as a bullet that is not seated on the powder charge will act as an obstruction in the bore rather than as a projectile. I have hunted with the same bullet that I target shoot with but I am very carefull in my rifle handling so as to not unseat a bullet.

Just my thoughts .... Pete

[Tatume]

Hi Pete,

It sounds like I haven't been too far off target in my own practice (pun intended). :-) In my Parker-Hale Volunteer (0.451" bore) I size my hand-lubricated bullets (Lyman 451114) in a 0.450" die for target shooting, but load unsized bullets for hunting. The unsized bullets load easily with slight resistance in a clean or once-fired bore. They get harder after that. The sized bullets continue to load easily all morning at the target range. Both sized and unsized bullets shoot to the same point of aim with the same level of accuracy.

Take care, Tom

[curator]

Sizing Lyman #457121 may remove one of the boolit's design features. At least on my mould, the bottom bands are smaller in diameter than the top ones. Bottom bands measure .452 and top bands measure .456 when cast of pure lead with 2% tin added. I hand lube these and load over a hard felt wad in my Wesson .45 replica. They load with a wee bit of resistance but once started in a clean bore will seat with only the weight of my brass loading rod. I also size these to .451 and paper patch for use in my various .45-70/.458WinMag rifles. A friend with a replica Whitworth rifle shoots my boolits with deadly accuracy even though they are round in his hexagonal bore. Recovered boolits show the hexagonal shape is achieved upon firing.

[451 Pete]

Curator that is a very good point that you have brought up. The bore diameter bullet needs to be of a soft alloy so as to obturate into the rifling to impart the rotational twist of the barrel to the bullet. In the Whitworth hexagonal bore you can take a soft lead cylindrical bullet and bump it up to take the hexagonal form of the bore ( a major upset of the round form ) and it will shoot very accurately.
Not knowing how your friend is loading his Whitworth if I may, I will offer one suggestion. Over the years I have found that a heavy felt wad , at least 1/4 inch in thickness , over the powder charge will help these rifles shoot even better.

take care ..... Pete

[451whitworth]

Sizing Lyman #457121 may remove one of the boolit's design features. At least on my mould, the bottom bands are smaller in diameter than the top ones. Bottom bands measure .452 and top bands measure .456 when cast of pure lead with 2% tin added. I hand lube these and load over a hard felt wad in my Wesson .45 replica. They load with a wee bit of resistance but once started in a clean bore will seat with only the weight of my brass loading rod. I also size these to .451 and paper patch for use in my various .45-70/.458WinMag rifles. A friend with a replica Whitworth rifle shoots my boolits with deadly accuracy even though they are round in his hexagonal bore. Recovered boolits show the hexagonal shape is achieved upon firing.

Curator, your mould is certainly different from my two 457121 moulds. i have one made in the 1980's (supplied with my Parker Hale Whitworth) and another from around 2005. Both have parallel sides and bullets fall from both moulds at .455" when cast of pure Pb. According to my 1958 Lyman handbook of cast bullets the description of the 457121 is for Sharps rifles. I hollow pointed one of the moulds and it is a real deer slayer at 460 grains with a .4" deep cavity using the 457122 Gould HP pin.

[idahoron]

Mine is the same as yours. Ron






Curator, your mould is certainly different from my two 457121 moulds. i have one made in the 1980's (supplied with my Parker Hale Whitworth) and another from around 2005. Both have parallel sides and bullets fall from both moulds at .455" when cast of pure Pb. According to my 1958 Lyman handbook of cast bullets the description of the 457121 is for Sharps rifles. I hollow pointed one of the moulds and it is a real deer slayer at 460 grains with a .4" deep cavity using the 457122 Gould HP pin.

[curator]

I am pretty sure I bought my Lyman mould from Dixie in about 1989 whwn I purchased my Dixie/Wesson rifle. The Marking on it are "PH 457121. It is a single cavity mould. I cast with 50/50 wheel weight/pure lead alloy or 90/10% lead/tin alloy. Bottom band measures .452 and top band measures .456. Perhaps this mould was expressly cut for the rilfe I was buying it with. Nonetheless thie mould continues to produce these boolits.