Annealing case necks

[Marlin Junky]

I friend gave me some .308 Winchester brand cases today and I want to anneal the necks before stretching them out to accept .358" boolits. What color should I look for when I'm heating the necks with a propane torch? I'll stand the cases in water up to their shoulders.

Thanks,
MJ

[chevyiron420]

mj, someone will probably answer that knows more than me But, i dont think it will work with that much water, maybe 3\4 inch, then heat as evenly as possible to dull red, maybe a low light condition would make it easyer, then knock em over quick into the water. i have heard of people that hold the case in pliers at the base to heat, then just drop them in water. i was always afraid i would soften the case head that way, so i dont do it like that.-phil

[44man]

Thats too deep in water, you will never get the necks hot. Half the case or less is fine. I turn my cases on a tiny turn table I made with a shallow pan of water on it. I put a bracket in the pan so when I set a case in, it is in the center. I heat the necks until the color change starts down the shoulder and tip it over. If you watch for the same distance down the shoulder, they come out pretty even.

[montana_charlie]

About color...
If a book existed on annealing when Moses was around, it probably said look for 'red'. All of the books I read before I ever annealed a case said 'red'.

Now that I actually anneal cases, it's said by some who profess to know that 'red' is actually too hot.

The correct temperature is around 650° and 'blue' is supposed to be right close to that...so I watch for 'blue' and my cases come out feeling about right when being resized.

Yesterday, I ordered a bottle of 650° Tempilaq to eliminate the guesswork...
CM

[Larry Gibson]

Marlin Junkey

I find annealing cases to be much easier and more consistant by using a Lee adapter for thier case trimmer shell holder in an electric screw driver. I anneal clean cases that are deprimed only. with the case in the shell holder put the flame of the propane torch on the shoulder and imediately start counting one thousand one, one thousand two etc. until the color runs just below the neck as in a milsurp 7.62 or '06 case. Usually this is at one thousand 6 - 8 for me. As mentioned the color is mor blue than red on the neck. I have a coffee can of cold water right there and as soon as the color runs below the shoulder I dunk the case in the cold water up to the web area with the screw driver still turning and swish it a bit. In a few seconds the case is cool and I take it out of the water and give it a small flip to knock any water out. I remove that case and put another in and do it again. Knowing the "count" helps me with consistancy with all the cases in a batch. With the turning case neck the consistancy of the anneal is much better than the old way you are contemplating. Doesn't take long to do a lot of cases. I then put them in the case cleaner for 15 minutes or so which dries them inside and out.

Larry Gibson

[44man]

Red is too hot. When the color just starts to go down on the shoulder, it is enough. If made too soft, all neck tension is reduced too much. You don't want a thin pencil flame but a wide one so it doesn't heat in one spot.

[uscra112]

Keep in mind that the working of the brass after annealing will re-harden it to some degree.

[454PB]

I use a method I read about many years ago. I hold the casing with my bare hand by the head, then play a propane flame on the neck until it gets too warm to hold. I then drop it in a pan of water and on to the next one. Your finger tip nerves are a very accurate means of temperature measurement, and you don't run the risk of annealing the case head.

[cbrick]

Here's an article on annealing that will tell you more than you ever thought about annealing. It will describe in detail the color range and a great deal more.

http://www.lasc.us/CartridgeCaseAnnealing.htm

Rick

[dromia]

I use a 650 Tempil stick heat crayon, easy to do.

[Marlin Junky]

Thanks for all the input. I probably got the blue color to come down too far but these cases only need to last until the .358 back orders have been filled... which will hopefully not be that long.

MJ

[cbrick]

Marlin Junky, read the article in the link I posted above. It describes the dangers of annealing the case too far down the case body.

Rick

[eka]

Like 454PB, I stand the torch on my bench with a bucket of water on the floor below it. I rotate the case with my fingers with a wide flame entering the case mouth at about 45 degrees. You will see a color change come down the neck pretty quick and I promise you will not hold onto the case long enough to soften the head. Simple and seems to work great for me. I'm sure there are more scientific and high tech methods, but all I'm looking for is longer case life without degrading accuracy or safety. If I was a world class competitor, I may get a little more fancy.

Keith

[rockrat]

I use one of the annealing machines I bought years ago.

If I used the brass in water method, would it be correct to tip the case in the water after heating? wouldn't that temper the brass and make it harder? Shouldn't you just leave the brass in the water, upright, until cool enough to remove?

Kind of like the difference between air cooled WW and water dropped WW?

[montana_charlie]

If I used the brass in water method, would it be correct to tip the case in the water after heating?
Yes.

wouldn't that temper the brass and make it harder?
No.

Shouldn't you just leave the brass in the water, upright, until cool enough to remove?
You may, it really doesn't matter.

Standing the case, or dropping it, in water keeps heat from migrating into the head.
Secondarily, it cools the case so it can be handled sooner.
But brass does not 'temper' the way iron and steel do when cooled quickly.

How hot it got, and how long it stayed hot determines how soft it will be.
Quenching does not harden it...only work does that.
CM

[kywoodwrkr]

454pb +1
Commercial processors use air cooling.
DaveP kywoodwrkr

[montana_charlie]

I use a 650 Tempil stick heat crayon, easy to do.
I have that same stick, dromia. It is so hard, it won't leave a visible mark on cold brass.

Do you keep stroking the case as it heats up...or how do you use it?
CM

[pdawg_shooter]

I hold the base of the case in my fingers, dip the neck and shoulder in 750 degree lead till it get hot on my fingers, drop it in water and That seems to work just right.

[twotoescharlie]

none of the major firms that makes cases use a water quinch, not necessary, hold by the base and use a propane torch, when it gets to hot to hold drop it.
water quenching just gives you another step to do. (drying them out)

TTC

[Hip's Ax]

I bought the Hornady annealing kit, I paint the Tempilaq on the first few cases to get the count (one a thousand, two a thousand....) then just use the count on the rest, works perfectly.

http://www.midwayusa.com/mediasvr.dll/highresimage?saleitemid=360902

[drinks]

In my opinion, air cooling gives too much chance to anneal the body, I agree with 445, hold it in your fingers, drop in water, GUARANTEE you will not heat it too much!