Do you find the need to add tin to wheel weights?

[Mark85304]

I am casting boolits using straight wheel weights and I find that the alloy does not fill the driving bands well (the edge is not sharp). The 22 calibers cast pretty good, but as I get longer or larger calibers the drive bands begin to look rounded. I think adding some tin to the alloy will help fill out the moulds better. I do not have a thermometer but even when the mould is hot enough to frost the boolits, the drive bands just don't fill out well, especially on my 44 and 45 caliber aluminum moulds.

What do you think?

[ScottJ]

I found that if I'm willing to accept a full grey rather than shiny finish by running hot enough to almost but not quite frost them I can skip the added tin.

Sent from my Lumia 900 using Board Express

[zxcvbob]

I'm using Lee boolit molds that don't have sharp corners; I seldom have to add tin to anything. I have some WW lead, but I usually just use scrap.

[littlejack]

Mark, welcome to the CastBoolits.

No sir, you don't have to use tin in ww alloy. I have cast thousands of boolits along with thousands of other casters who have done the
same.
It will help fill out of the cavity if you have it, but you CAN get very nice boolits without it.
I do use tin now, because I have it.
Jack

[canyon-ghost]

I usually run hot enough for fillout, sometime I add tin. I guess I'd say both.

[runfiverun]

mold temp is more important than your alloy temp when it comes to fill out.
tin has its usefulness and in some cases fill out is one of them.
i would try getting the molds hotter first then add the tin if things don't improve.
usually letting the alloy run into the cavitys from a slight angle will allow them to vent better and negate the need for tin.

[Hardcast416taylor]

Pot temp. and mold temp. go hand in hand for good fill out. If 1 is a bit too cool at pouring you will not get good fill out or wrinkles will result. Our not knowing what you are using as a melt pot doesn`t help in our help. LEE pots are hit and miss on their temp settings, a therometer for lead would help you know the pot temp. when pouring. Tin can be used by getting some Lead-Free solder. Unroll about a 10" length for a full LEE pot then stir in and flux before starting pouring. A temp. of about 700 degrees will usually solve any wrinkle and fill out problems.Robert

[a.squibload]

Need? No, but poured my best boolits ever after reading
about alloys on Castboolits. Around 1% tin (or pewter)
makes it easier to get good fillout. I'm all about easy!

[40Super]

I usually do, I like to have nice crisp edges and the tin does help make it easier .Otherwise you fight temps up and down all the time.Angling the mold helps on many also, along with faster/slower pour, more/less sprue,lattle/bottom pour,ect....
One example= I have a new brass mold that will not fillout good no matter how much tin, all it takes is as fast a pour as I can and a pretty big sprue puddle(about twice the size as any other mold. If I do that it drops perfect bullets every time, regardless of tin content.

[dragonrider]

Straight WW's works well for me,

[ColColt]

I add about 2 ounces per 10 pounds of WW's-no problems with fill out so, I don't look a gift horse in the mouth. Moreover, 2% tin has been recommended here countless times.

[lwknight]

Need? No.
It makes things go better all the way around.
I'm not too cheap to make things better.
I can speed up production and make better bullets with added tin.
Sure some people do just fine without but they could do a lot better.

[Defcon-One]

There are two ways to increase mold fill-out in a clean, oil free mold. Higher temperatures which you have tried and Tin.

The higher temperatures (Mold & Alloy) keep the metal flowing longer since it takes longer to cool down and reach its set temperature. The Tin decreases the surface tension of the alloy allowing it to flow into sharper corners where pure lead and low Tin alloys just won't go.

Since you are pushing temps to bullet frosting levels now I would say try 1-2% Tin in your mix. It makes it much easier to get good fill out and you get a tougher bullet as well, meaning that it is less brittle and less likely to break up.

For the little extra you pay for that Tin, you get a much more usable alloy. That means faster, easier and more productive casting sessions. It works for me!

I use 2% Tin, 3% Antimony and 95% Lead for my hangun bullets (at 725-750 Deg F) and Lyman #2 which is 5% Tin, 5% Antimony and 90% Lead for my rifle bullets (at 750-775 Deg F).

One last thing. If your mold has any impurities or oil in the lube groove area, you will never get it to fill out completely. A clean, oil free mold is critical to getting good bullets, so check that first.

[Dennis Eugene]

Usually I don't bother adding tin. However today I was casting some bullets that I intend to give to a friend ,so I added a little tin just to make a prettier bullet, and because I want him to think I might just know what I'm doing. Dennis

[cf_coder]

I always add tin as I feel it make it easier for me to acheive fill-out... well, that and I seem to have a very large supply of what appears to be 50/50 solder. So adding it doesn't hurt. I tried using straight isotope core lead and had problems getting good sharp edges. 2% tin in that mix fixed that issue straight up.

Welcome to the site from a fellow AZ caster! There's a few of us on here and it's good to find more.

[dnotarianni]

Rounded drive bands = more lube and better sealing to the bore. Just another opinion. How do they look after sizing?

Dave

[Mark85304]

I picked up some 50/50 lead/tin bars today. I added one pound bar to 19 pounds wheel weights. These are my results.

http://i1194.photobucket.com/albums/aa373/tangochaser/Boolits.jpg

Left to right: Lee 457 340 grn FN, Ranch Dog TLC 379 235 grn RF, Lyman 375248 249 grn RFP, Lyman 356402 120 grn TC, Lyman 287346 135 grn RN, Lee 22 Bator.

I'm getting the hang of these aluminum moulds. As you can see some of them are not the prettiest, but shootable. I am having a blast. Now to get my Lyman 450 sizer set up.

[40Super]

Your molds need to be warmer ,plus you can get away with less tin than what you are. I use around 1 to 2oz per 19-20lb pot. I would try less than half and see how things look,once the molds get warmer,you'll see better fillout and no wrinkles.

[dnotarianni]

As you can see some of them are not the prettiest, but shootable. I am having a blast. Now to get my Lyman 450 sizer set up.

I have never seen a pretty bullet recovered from the backstop when I am scrounging range lead!
As you said your having a blast, now blast that lead
Dave

[captaint]

For me, it's been a specific mold issue. Some molds, not so much tin required. Others, just add the tin and get it over with. I have a H&G 2 cav 68 mold that WILL NOT fill out the drive bands all around without some tin. Just ain't gonna happen. enjoy Mike

[Mark85304]

I need to get a thermometer. I've seen lots of different alloy temps mentioned for casting. What are people using? Maybe I should build a PID controller. :shock: I really do enjoy casting boolits. It's a lot of fun and I can tinker with the process a bit.

[12DMAX]

I am a rookie, I have a mold that wont fillout properly unless i use head pressure with the dipper. Tin, heat nothing would do it but head pressure. Nice fillout now.

[40Super]

I run around the 700F area, up a little for my brass one, sometimes I turn it down to 675F once my mold is hot,keeps frosting down a bit and doesn't take as long to cool the sprue. You will just have to try different temps with each mold and find out what works and at what pace you cycle, the faster you cycle a lot the cooler you can run,but you will have to get your mold hot enough to begin with.I set mine on a hotplate at about 400F to begin with,sometimes ten seconds or so across the sprue with a propane torch(depends on the mold,thicker needs more heat).

12DMAX, did you try tipping the mold and pour at an angle,that helps some quite a bit ,also try a big sprue puddle(I have one that won't fillout unless I have a huge puddle)

[geargnasher]

Your molds need to be warmer ,plus you can get away with less tin than what you are. I use around 1 to 2oz per 19-20lb pot. I would try less than half and see how things look,once the molds get warmer,you'll see better fillout and no wrinkles.

Bingo!.

I've said this countless times on this forum, here it is again: MOULD temp affects boolit fillout, NOT pot temp. Run the alloy at 100 degrees above full-liquidus, use a thermometer to determine what exactly that is with your particular alloy. If the alloy is hot enough to pour, it's hot enough to make good boolits. Preheat the mould and cast FAST to keep it hot, don't try to compensate for slow or sloppy casting techniques with overheated alloy. Most aluminum moulds need at least FOUR POURS PER MINUTE consistently to keep them at optimum temperature with 675 F WW alloy, with or without additional tin.

I add tin to most of my mixes, 1% or so, but I do it for reasons other than fillout. Heat in the mould is what makes fillout happen.

Gear

[lwknight]

Pay attention to geargnasher people.
He knows his stuff.

[paul h]

I've cast a ton of wheelweights in 6.5mm, 30 cal, 35 cal, 45 cal, 475 cal and 50 cal, 100-500+gr alumunim molds, steel molds, brass molds and cast iron molds, 1, 2, 4 and 6 cavity, pb, gc, swc, ogival wadcuters, et al, oh, even some round balls.

So long as the mold is hot, the cavities will fill out. Looking at my lee 105 gr swc 357's last night, once the mold was good and hot I could see the machining marks from the sprue plate on the base of the bullets. Just get the mold up to the temp that the bullets are frosty and all is good. The key is to get up a cadance and keep casting until the mold is up to temp. Even with a pre-heated mold I typically find I need to cast a few cycles to get everything up to temp.

[454gene]

I have a thin, triangular piece of tin about a foot long. what is the best way to add this to the lead to achieve a 1-2% ratio.

[bumpo628]

I have a thin, triangular piece of tin about a foot long. what is the best way to add this to the lead to achieve a 1-2% ratio.

You could melt it into 1% sized "coins" and add to the pot as needed. Base the weight of the coins on your typical pot size.

[40Super]

I cast up a container full of 200gr 45 cal tin bullets(BE SURE TO KEEP THEM IN A WELL MARKED JUG). Then when I fill a pot, I drop in 2,3 ,5 ect.... each time,good and consistant. I also made up a 750-800gr slug mold that I cast up a bunch, mostly with the less tin % solder to keep seperate and so I don't have to cast so many tin bullets.
If you have a heavy duty cutter of some sort, you could measure every 1/2"-3/4" and shear off slugs and weigh them so you know how many lbs of lead alloy you need to add each one to.

[454gene]

I have a lyman mould master bottom pour 20lb. pot. 1% would be 3oz. So what would the dimensions for 1 oz. coin be?

[40Super]

Approximately 1.125" to 1.200"diameter by 1/8" thick.

[just.don]

Did the addition of the tin make a visible difference to your fill out?
Or cast wt. avg?

I have always had tin so I always add it.

[One Gun Andy]

Where do you get tin, and what form does it come in?

[40Super]

Rotometals sells it by the lb, or watch the "swapping and selling" section here on this forum for solder that has a certain % of tin in it.

[Mark85304]

Yes. I do believe I used too much tin (about 5% tin) so now I'm "cutting" wheel weights with them to bring up the tin content. However, I got really good results with straight wheel weights once I got my mould hot and the alloy temp down. I found I could cast longer before having to let the mould cool at which point I switched to another similar sized mould.

I'm still tinkering with things and having fun. However, casting at 100-110 degrees in AZ is rough. It was 10:30 PM the other night before the temp dipped below 100.


Did the addition of the tin make a visible difference to your fill out?
Or cast wt. avg?

I have always had tin so I always add it.