Saying no to reloading for others

[Revolver]

When I mention to someone that I have about $0.05 into each of my rounds I occasionally get propositioned to sell ammo -- which I won't do because...

1. I have no interest in selling ammo.
2. Liability.
3. I want my brass back.
4. I want my lead back.
5. That price per rounds doesn't include my time.
6. I made them, they are mine!

I basically reload for my household although if a friend or relative stopped over to visit I would probably let them shoot some of my boolits (Liability is my only concern here).

I felt kinds of rotten the last time I refused sell ammo to someone. Other people must encounter this, how do you typically tell people no?

[imashooter2]

I press my tongue to the roof of my mouth to form the N sound and then round my lips to form the O.

It's easy.

[Revolver]

I press my tongue to the roof of my mouth to form the N sound and then round my lips to form the O.

It's easy.

Yes, well, that's easy... perhaps you don't understand the depth of my question.

What I'm wondering is about what reasons people give. I've previously explained that it was for for liability reasons but I think I may switch to the "I don't have time" or "My labor make it not cost effective" line, which seems to close the door on the other person trying to negotiate "I wouldn't hold you liable... blah blah blah."

[gray wolf]

I think a simple
( I would rather not for reasons of my own, but thanks for asking )
In the real world you owe no one anymore than a polite no.
A simple I would rather not. If pushed to do it, all bets are off and then I go into---
What part of no do you not understand.

Yes, well, that's easy... perhaps you don't understand the depth of my question.
I think your question has depth because you are giving it depth.
(no offense meant)

[Dennis Eugene]

I just tell them "I don't think I can legally sell ammo." Dennis

[rromeo]

A friend asked me about reloading. I told him sure, just buy the dies, bullets, primers, powder, and my own rifle to test the loads because I didn't want to give him any unsafe ammo.

[luvmy40]

Yeah, have I been mistaken in thinking that reloading for retail entailed a federal license?

This is my usual answer to this question.

[Mk42gunner]

No FFL plus no insurance eqauls NO.

Robert

[samdweezel05]

I load for my dad in small amounts and I have been known to load for a friend of mine. I don't get paid for it and they supply all the stuff needed to load them.

[500MAG]

I encourage them to purchase their own setup and I invite them to see how I do it so they can learn themselves. It's funny, in your $0.05 per round, your time is not counted. My nephew thinks it is too much work but fails to understand the reloaders enjoyment of doing it ourselves.

[Whiterabbit]

)I felt kinds of rotten the last time I refused sell ammo to someone. Other people must encounter this, how do you typically tell people no?

To sentence #1, why?

To sentence #2, it's easy for me. "nope." If they have a backup question, then I reply "hell no." You need a reason? tell them what your time is worth.

[10 ga]

I answer that "sure I'll sell you some ammo". However when I quote a price they always back out. Then they ask why do you want so much? I answer that my price is like lotsa stuff, based on what it's worth to me, not what it cost to manufacture.

And if someone really wanted some at the price I quote it would have to be a FED as they are the only ones stupid enough to buy ammo at the price I give. Then it'd be time to alibi on not making a sale. LOL, 10 ga

[Jailer]

I've only loaded for one person and I did it because I owed him a favor. Everyone else gets a resounding NO!

ETA: The re loading I did was entirely with components supplied by him. I provided nothing but my time and my press.

[Three44s]

My understanding is that you can load for someone but you can only get reimbursed for the components.

So here's what I do:

I tell them I'll teach them the basics and they have to take the bull by the horns and buy their own equipment and components.

If they are not interested in getting into reloading ........ why should I be their loading slave?

The liability issue alone is enough reason to say no ...........

And since I won't get reimbursed for my time ......... you DO need a license to load for profit ..... I am in my hobby for myself ....... they can do the same as I did ....... buy in!

Again, I will mentor for the sake of keeping the 2A alive and well!! ......... but I am no ones slave!!

My wife and my father are the only two exceptions to this rule. My nephews will get taugh to handload or use store bought ... I'll even loan some equipment to get them hooked ......... but that's it!!

Three 44s

[pipehand]

Its kinda like the "Give a man a fish/ teach a man to fish " saying. I always say that I won't sell ammo, but I will teach you how to make your own. So far, everyone is just looking for ammo free or cheap with no labor on their part. If you had to buy ammo from me, Walmart is your best friend.

[madsenshooter]

I have done it for one friend who has a Krag, simply because ammo is so hard to find and expensive. I'm careful to keep the loads well below maximum, and I only charge him for the components. He's a friend, my time is donated to the endeavor. He didn't ask, I volunteered to do it just so the old rifle would see some use again. I have said no to others who had more modern rifles that they could easily get ammo for, because if my time was factored in, they might just as well go to Wally World and get what they want. After all, I have my own habits to feed.

[runfiverun]

soon as the words "i'll teach ya",and give them a list of what they need.
that seems to be as far as it goes.
apparently they thought that stuff in the gun room, comes from the same place the gun writers get it.

[dragon813gt]

I load for my Uncle and that's it. He splits the costs of components with me and buys dies/molds for calibers only he has. If friends I ask I simply tell them no. It never goes further than that.


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[LUBEDUDE]

I get hit up ALL the time.

Like others have said, I tell them I don't have a CLass 6 FFL which is required. And I tell them I can get in a lot of trouble.

[duck hollow pete]

My dad loaded a few now and again for his brother, I did the same for a brother-in-law. In 71 when I got out of the service and started to do my own reloading, when ask I simply told the truth I have yet to get up from the loading bench finished with my own!

[imashooter2]

Yes, well, that's easy... perhaps you don't understand the depth of my question.

What I'm wondering is about what reasons people give. I've previously explained that it was for for liability reasons but I think I may switch to the "I don't have time" or "My labor make it not cost effective" line, which seems to close the door on the other person trying to negotiate "I wouldn't hold you liable... blah blah blah."



I understood. I say no and that is that. Anything else opens it up for discussion and my decision isn't open to discussion.

[canyon-ghost]

If they are not interested in getting into reloading ........ why should I be their loading slave?



Exactly, and you may not get your brass back.

"You should get into reloading yourself" seems to stop all that.

[Wayne Smith]

I offer to teach - and, since I do have my FFL06 I do some reloading for a couple of friends who don't shoot that much. Really don't shoot that much. One wanted to go to Africa, 7Mag, wanted special bullets - he bought everything, he decided on the load, shoot a few, loved them, trip fell apart. I still have two boxes of his very expensive bullets on my shelf.

[Jack Stanley]

Lots of good ways to say no in this thread . Many of the guys that have come after me to load for them do so because they are to cheap to buy ammo at the discount stores . They look at my equipment and time as their bridge card or WIC program . As little as I actually see them shooting I really don't think their heart is into that as much as some ball game . It is interesting to hear them quote scores and players like I can remember scriptures and loads ....... sorta lets a fella know where their priorites are huh? [smilie=l:

Jack

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

I do not load commerically, and have no plans to go there.

However, I will gladly help someone get started and if that means throwing in a few primers or a bit of powder or some cast boolits, so be it.

BUT some years back I came to the realization that reloading is not for everyone!

Not at all!!!!!!!

One friend even bought some brass and bullets, expensive Swift A-frame, but it only took one trip to the range for testing before he decided it wasn't for him. He just buys, as he should, factory fodder.

Another friend takes a completely different direction, and is buying into the process of testing different powders etc. with the goal of quality custom hunting loads.

He is interested and helping in the loading process, buying components, and even helping me team cast handgun boolits.

We as shooters/reloaders, should help whenever possible to increase the interest in shooting and/or reloading, but frankly is not for everyone and we should be ready and vocal with the info of just what the process entails in time and money.

Some will op in and others will op out.

For those who op in, we should help get er done.

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[Thumbcocker]

Had a guest today loading .45 acp. His powder, primers, and projectiles. Let him use my manuals and equipment. He left with enough ammo to qualify with and an understanding of the process.

[dragonrider]

I just say no, no explanations.

[geargnasher]

What's wrong with the truth? Why aren't your personal reasons valid enough, aside from not having an 06 FFL and not being insured to the nines?

Gear

[chboats]

+1 to what Thumbcocker does.

[gefiltephish]

I understood. I say no and that is that. Anything else opens it up for discussion and my decision isn't open to discussion.

My sentiments exactly. I learned long ago that if you offer a reason you're also offering them an opportunity for an endrun argument. If you don't tell them why, then they can't argue or try to reason with you. Next time you get the chance, just say no and watch their facial expression along with the stammering and stuttering - often it's priceless. You get to walk away with 100% satisfaction that you just nipped it in the bud with a single syllable.

[Steve T.]

30+ years of reloading and I told them all the same thing. No, but I'll be glad to help ya get started. Funny, not one student.

[Wal']

Quite happy to load for friends, but friends only, thats it.

[303Guy]

A basic safety rule in reloading is not to shoot someone else's reloads and that's what I used say by way of an explanation for declining a request.

I did some casting and loading for a friend using my components sometimes. It was my fun! I got to shoot his rifle in the bargain too. Then he carried on loading his own. On a few occasions I have loaded for someone I had them present to check my safety so they could see if they were going to damage their gun or not.

[HighHook]

I do for a small handful of friends. I say go to the gunshow and buy powder, primers and tips. I let them do it then I get to keep the rest. You always have to tell them to save their own brass.:drinks:

[Revolver]

soon as the words "i'll teach ya",and give them a list of what they need.
that seems to be as far as it goes...


I like it! Thanks.

[762 shooter]

Unfortunately, Runfiverun and Steve T. have my experiences.

I think that I have some 40 years worth of knowledge that could help someone starting out casting/reloading/handloading.

I have been asked to reload by 6 people in the past year.

My response is that I will gladly help them reload their own ammo, just buy the components, come over, use my presses and we will do it. My thoughts are that one should be willing to pass on a hobby that you enjoy and that my liability should be greatly lessened since they are reloading their own ammo.

All had enthusiastic responses.

ZERO takers.

762

[trapper9260]

I have soem that ask me to reload for them . I tell them that they need to come up with the supplies and the brass and if I do not have the dies they need to get them orther wise if I get them I keep them and also that they need to with me to do the reloading and help with it s and also for them to bring there gun to test the rounds that we load to see how they shoot .Also told them that after they can work on getting there own press and all. I also tell them that I will not do it with them do to the liabilty . Also I will not do it with out any one here that wants me to reload for them .I am also picky who I am willing to do that for . The only one that dose shoot my ammo in his gun is my brother that live with me . he helps sometimes with it .He dose not shoot hardly . He only shoot shotgun. I reload that and rifle and handgun and cast bullets . I only had one guy yhat I help with reloading and sight in his gun and then that was the end of it . Like orther said they find out too much work and orthers thinks it is too much for the cost . Well that is there problem not my .I will not supply anyone any of what I have they need to get there own .I do the same as with my traps that I do trapping .I will help them to get traps if they need them and show how to use them but it is on there own .

[LeadHound]

When I have been asked if I would load for someone it's a simple NO, but be glad to help you get started loading. That usually puts an end to it. If asked “why not” the answer is “why should I”. Anyone that does not understand this answer or try’s to make you feel bad about saying it is just plan selfish and not someone you should care about there opinion.

[3006guns]

Its kinda like the "Give a man a fish/ teach a man to fish " saying. I always say that I won't sell ammo, but I will teach you how to make your own. So far, everyone is just looking for ammo free or cheap with no labor on their part. If you had to buy ammo from me, Walmart is your best friend.

Best and most accurate answer in my opinon. When I tell people I can load for around a nickle a round, that's counting material cost only. Want to experience the same savings? Good......buy a press, dies, components and I'll get you started.

It's amazing how many people back off when confronted by EFFORT on their part. A few have started the hobby however and are still with it.

[Sasquatch-1]

I just tell them that if the gun were to blow up in your face I would quickly cease to be your friend and get well aquainted with your lawyer. Usually "if the gun were to blow up" is enough.

[clodhopper]

I load enough for my daughter to hunt.
Most people who ask get "I can't load enough for my self" for an answer.
If that is not enough I tell them " because I'm not going to be responsible for your ammo especially the night before hunting season opens"
Some, I do invite to come use my stuff to load your own componets. A few have done so and bought their own tools later

[Wayne Smith]

I've had two takers, my best friend and Arisaka99 of this board. Chris is now an enthusiastic loader and is talking about wanting to cast if he has enough time with all his other interests.

[bobthenailer]

Years ago i used to reload for some close friends ! but since the last 15 years if they want it loaded they are more than welcome to come to my house and use my equipment & load it themselves with me overseeing the process. or in the case of rifle ammo , i sometimes, clean , resize ,inspect cases & trim to min spec to save time so when they get there all they have to do is prime , add powder & seat the bullet.

[bowfin]

To me, it is a time issue. I'll be danged if I burn up my time (of which I seem to never have enough) loading ammunition for them while they do something else for themselves.

Now, if they want to trade home repairs, lawn mowing, washing the truck, etc., we can hammer out a deal...

[felix]

Yeah, for me it's a friendship issue. Tit for tat is what friends are all about, even if it consists of BS over a beer/lunch. It's all about expending consumables (objectives) for the enjoyment of company (the only goal). ... felix

[popper]

Nope, nope and nobody asked. Only for GKs plinking ammo - that is enough liability for me.

[imashooter2]

Yeah, for me it's a friendship issue. Tit for tat is what friends are all about, even if it consists of BS over a beer/lunch. It's all about expending consumables (objectives) for the enjoyment of company (the only goal). ... felix

If we are going shooting together, I have no issue whatsoever with sharing my ammo and firearms. I see that as completely different than loading for someone elses use.

[Mike W1]

I remember Dean Grenell saying something about "coolie" wages far as loading for somebody else. I ain't interested and I don't do it. PERIOD

[Any Cal.]

I figure that between scrounging, smelting, casting, lubing, sizing, priming, charging, seating, cleaning, and packing a box of handgun ammo, I have two hours in each box. It doesn't matter how cheap the components are, it is the time that is the expensive part.

[clintsfolly]

Just offer to help them get going and real close friends get to come use my stuff to start! Clint

[jonk]

I've been known to do it, but it was for a very few rounds for a few very good friends. I used to swap loaded ammo for wheelweights for a mechanic, but due to liability I quit that- and 'paid' for the weights buy buying the guy a used press and dies at a gunshow one day, and showed him how to reload his own.

[Sasquatch-1]

I've been known to do it, but it was for a very few rounds for a few very good friends. I used to swap loaded ammo for wheelweights for a mechanic, but due to liability I quit that- and 'paid' for the weights buy buying the guy a used press and dies at a gunshow one day, and showed him how to reload his own.

YOU DIDN'T BUY HIM CASTING EQUIPMENT? Did you? That could be the end of your lead supply.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

No, you keep the casting equipment. Get a good heat source like an old Colman gas stove, a cast iron pot that holds AT LEAST 40lbs. then make sure your molds are all 4 cavity or bigger and get the fellow to team cast with you for your handgun boolits.

I still single cast for the rifle, but it is hard to believe the number of handgun boolit a 2 man team can cast in 2 - 3 hours with 4 & 6 cavity molds, providing your heat source is good enough and your pot big enough to continue casting while adding metal to the pot.

He supplies the alloy, you supply the tools and you both win.

CDOC

[Echo]

I reload for a Girl Friend. She works at the Air & Space Museum with me, she in Restoration (does ALL the fabric work) and I drive a tram. Taught her to shoot her M19 she had when she worked for the Sheriff's Dept. She's 81, and won a medal in the Senior Oly's last year. Ya gotta love a woman that shoots guns, works on airplanes, and was a bosun on a tall ship at one time. Nothing romantic between us, but a dear friend. I cast the boolits, and I get the brass back. Works for me...

[thegreatdane]

My answer is "Nope. Because I like my time and effort to be rewarded with my own enjoyment."

[Lead Fred]

Friends come over and use my equiptment, under supervision. I got no problem with that.
I just had a guy beg to buy some 45/70 rounds from me. I took them apart, and sold the boolits only.

[Bigslug]

"You're relying on me for your ammo?

I guess you must also be relying on Obama for your health care."

[HangFireW8]

I've only had a few requests, had an answer ready. Come over my place and I'll show you how it's done. No takers so far. When they hem and haw, I say, yeah, free time's an issue for me, too.

[Recluse]

Yes, well, that's easy... perhaps you don't understand the depth of my question.

What I'm wondering is about what reasons people give. I've previously explained that it was for for liability reasons but I think I may switch to the "I don't have time" or "My labor make it not cost effective" line, which seems to close the door on the other person trying to negotiate "I wouldn't hold you liable... blah blah blah."

I'm with Imashooter--I just say "No" and that's that.

First off, I consider it rude as hell for someone to even ask UNLESS it is for some sort of a rare cartridge and they OFFER to buy the dies, brass, molds, primers, powder, etc. I have done that a few times over the years.

But folks who've asked me to reload FOR THEM simply to save THEM money, I respond by telling them to go and invest in the equipment and supplies, then devote the time necessary to learn it correctly and safely, and then go out and shoot all they want.

Problem is, most who ask are just lazy as hell and want someone else to do the work for them. That's why I have zero problem giving them a big, fat, blunt "NO" for an answer.

:coffee:

[waksupi]

I used to reload for a neighbor and his wife. Easy duty, as they only shot maybe a box each per year. In exchange, Henry would plow my driveway in the winter. After he was done plowing, we would drink whiskey. It was a good thing he always had his cocker spaniel with him to drive him home, and that he only had a real short distance of mountain road to make it home. Got to love a smart dog.

[geargnasher]

That's a heckuva deal there, Waksupi, depending of course on who bought the booze and how good it was. :2 drunk buddies:

Gear

[Wal']

Sheeeeezus, sometime's I even let friends borrow my car & if they're really desperate, my lawnmower. :)

Different countries I guess, down here in Australia we are quite happy to help each other out, I guess thats where the term "mate" comes from. :drinks:

[PAT303]

I've loaded thousands of rounds for people over the years,it's the only why some can afford it. Pat

[imashooter2]

Sheeeeezus, sometime's I even let friends borrow my car & if they're really desperate, my lawnmower. :)

Different countries I guess, down here in Australia we are quite happy to help each other out, I guess thats where the term "mate" comes from. :drinks:

I've lent my car and tools to friends too. But I won't load for them.

[Roosters]

Sure I’ll load you some, just sign my standard release form in the three places indicated on each page !!! :holysheep

http://i1173.photobucket.com/albums/r600/threescrew3/Capture1.jpg

[bruce drake]

Sheeeeezus, sometime's I even let friends borrow my car & if they're really desperate, my lawnmower. :)

Different countries I guess, down here in Australia we are quite happy to help each other out, I guess thats where the term "mate" comes from. :drinks:

Legal Liability prevents me from reloading for others. I will teach them to reload and provide oversight for their own reloading when they are beginning but I won't swap reloads with anyone or let them shoot my loads in their firearms.

We've got too many lawyers in this country who are looking to make a fortune off someone else's misfortune.

Bruce

[Wal']

I've lent my car and tools to friends too. But I won't load for them.

Whats the difference ???? faulty tool, faulty reload ?????? :?:

[Texantothecore]

I always say no. Most of the gun guys I hang out with reload their own so it is not a problem.


The liability is a problem and my time is severely limited, so it isn't going to happen.

[FRJ]

There is no one that I owe any answer to other than NO!!!!!I know of no law that demands that I explain myself and I wouldn't even if there was such a law!!!!! End of story. FRJ

[imashooter2]

Whats the difference ???? faulty tool, faulty reload ?????? :?:

Can't say as I can point out a solid difference except in my mind. Fortunately, that's all I need. :smile:

[Recluse]

Whats the difference ???? faulty tool, faulty reload ?????? :?:

The difference is in where the deep pockets are. If I loan my Chevy truck to someone and some fault in it causes them to crash, they have insurance companies to sue and Chevrolet to sue.

If I do some reloads for someone, there's only ME to sue.

Given the prolific nature of our ambulance-chasing tort-swine lawyers in America, they'd bleed me dry for the sheer fun of it--something to brag about with other tort lawyers. They'd do it simply for practice.

The other problem is, how are favors reciprocated? I'll bet your mates over there in Texas-Down-Under (as I often refer to Australia) scratch your back as well as you scratch theirs.

The people I've had ask me to reload for them never offered up so much as even cleaning patches when we were at my place cleaning the guns after an afternoon of shooting. Yet, they think I'm going to spend my time, money and effort reloading for them?

Translation: They're mostly all take and no give. 'Course, I don't consider those folks "friends" either--more like acquaintances, which makes saying "NO!" a non-event.

:coffee:

[btroj]

I have a female coworker I have loaded ammo for. She has bought me primers, 3 K of them, and even come over and loaded a few hundred rounds herself on my Dillon.
Tis is a person I finally convinced to shoot a few years ago. She enjoyed it enough to buy a revolver of her own.
I doubt she will ever load her own ammo at home. She tends to not even like keeping any on hand there.
This is a unique situation in my mind. She is an active participant in the loading process at times. She is definitely not a taker or user.

[Dutch4122]

The "come on over to my place and I'll teach you how it's done" approach seems to be the deal killer for them. Like many others have said here, they are just plain lazy and even more so cheap. I've come to the point, like many others here, that it is just plain insulting as far as I'm concerned. Do they really think that I'm so stupid as to not realize they are ripping me off (my time & labor) by paying me just the cost of components?

I have only had one taker over the years. He's been over to cast twice in six years; and has began to load his own with another buddy. His last batch of boolits is 3 months old and still sitting on my casting bench in a can. They are waiting for him to come back over and learn how to run them through the lube sizer.

[atr]

I have young friends who want to learn reloading...so thats the extent of my reloading for others...I show them how its done and what to watch out for with their particular cartridge, but NO I don't reload for others.
atr

[Walter Laich]

Taught a couple of fellow cowboys how to reload. They came over and got to use my stuff to reload a box or two of their own. We sat down and I outlined what they would need to do this on their own and how many rounds it would take to 'break even.'

Both bought equipment and are happily reloading for our matches

[truckjohn]

It's amazing how many random people will ask you if you will sell them or custom load for them...

Holy Cow! Do you just pull your car up next to some random fellow walking down the side of the road holding a wrench in his hand and ask if he can rebuild your engine or fix your AC?

Never mind that it takes an 06 FFl.... and those folks could very well be looking either to sue someone.. or be looking to report someone to the feds....

Really, though.... There's a huge difference between me doing something as a hobby for my own enjoyment and what I would have to charge somebody.... "Standard" Mechanic shop rate of $125/hr.... I can crank out 60 rounds in an hour start to finish...... or $2/round in labor.... $40.00/box of 20 + say another $20 in materials is a great deal isn't it......

There's a good reason that oddball, obsolete, custom ammo costs a fortune... like $120/box of 20 for 577/450 Martini commercial ammo

Thanks

[hardy]

Hey there,have you noticed that whenever you mention a "bargain" then everybody wants some?I,ll swap "good deals","best buys" and load recipes with fellow reloaders,it,s just "shop talk",But if I ever find a mother lode,a good fishing hole or whatever,then I won,t advertise it!!Like many others I will encourage people who enquire about reloading to DIY.Never had a taker yet!.Thats when THEY make the excuses!!I started with a "mentor" but folks today have no patience,you know the rapid fire brigade.Well rant over,but you get my drift?Cheers, Mike.

[Goldstar225]

I have a good friend who I assist in reloading. When he needs ammo he buys the components and comes over to the house. I provide the tools and guidance, he cranks the handle. Anyone else I trust gets offered the same deal if they want reloaded ammo. No other takers so far.

[clodhopper]

I used to reload for a neighbor and his wife. Easy duty, as they only shot maybe a box each per year. In exchange, Henry would plow my driveway in the winter. After he was done plowing, we would drink whiskey. It was a good thing he always had his cocker spaniel with him to drive him home, and that he only had a real short distance of mountain road to make it home. Got to love a smart dog.
A little time at the loading bench. beats the heck out of a lot of time on a snowshovel

[45-70 Chevroner]

Removed for personal reasons.

[Wal']

[QUOTE=Recluse;1727793]
The other problem is, how are favors reciprocated? I'll bet your mates over there in Texas-Down-Under (as I often refer to Australia) scratch your back as well as you scratch theirs.

The people I've had ask me to reload for them never offered up so much as even cleaning patches when we were at my place cleaning the guns after an afternoon of shooting. Yet, they think I'm going to spend my time, money and effort reloading for them?
QUOTE]

:)Well thankfully most of my mates do reciprocate, whether by just being a "mate" or in many other way's.

I just find it a little surprising that so many are so loathing to helping out friends for fear of liigation. :o sad, time to clean house up there.

Especially as it's a hobby that everone claims to enjoy doing. :-D :???:

Texas down under :) :) 8-) love that one.

[BadDaditood]

next time i'm asked i'll say

"i'd love to sell you some reloads... i need the money, three of my own guns blew up last year"

[Rangefinder]

I load for my dad, and took on one heck of a project for my neighbor loading for his FN5.7--took several months of careful planning and develpoment to get the right load while not creating a hand grenade. Now that the nervous cold-sweats part of the development is over, it's pretty much loading as usual with a few extra safety steps involved for added insurance. He keeps me stocked with all the powder, bullets, primers, and every piece of brass, so it comes down to a little time, which is easy since he's do darn helpful to me in other ways. For anyone else I wouldn't, simply because most have zero understanding how much time and care is involved--they simply think "cool, cheap ammo means I can waste it and come back for more anytime". NOPE.

[Moonie]

I load only for family, everyone else always has excuses when I tell them the cost of tooling up (which I quote for my progressive and a mold and size dies, even if I already have the tooling)

[shooterg]

I've loaded a FEW rounds for a FEW friends, never anything on the hot side, when we have a shoot 'em up on the plate rack in the backyard, I'll let friends shoot MY reloads in MY guns. Have had 2 people total take me up on the learn to DIY offer.

[fatelk]

I remember a long time ago I loaded 1000 rounds of .38 special for a friend. I wasn't worried about liability because (1) we'd been friends for many years, (2) it was a very safe mid-range .38 load that would be fired in a Dan Wesson .357 magnum, and (3) at the time I loaded strictly single stage carefully double-checking each and every step.

I have a case-kicker on my RC press and a way of doing it that goes pretty quick, but it's still single stage, in addition to the casting and lubing. Partway through the multi-day project I asked myself what the heck am I doing? Never again. Since then I am glad to help people get started out in loading or find good deals on used gear and components.

Usually they buy the gear (if it gets that far) and it all sits in their garages gathering dust. I guess everyone has their own thing they're into. If I bought golf clubs or a fishing pole, it would likely sit in my garage gathering dust.

[1bluehorse]

I have, and do reload for a couple friends of mine. Mostly mid range stuff you can't purchase. I'm not to concerned about liability issues (IF it ever came up) as it would be pretty hard to "prove" where they (the rounds) came from. However I will NOT load "hot" loads for anyone but myself.... Might let the wife shoot the first one though....

[Shiloh]

I do not load ammo for anyone. End of story

I used to tell that to three or four people per year. That has fallen off quite a bit over the years.
I guess word has got out.

Shiloh

[FergusonTO35]

The only person I will load for other than myself is my best friend of 23 years. Whenever someone else asks me I tell them the following things:

A. I have no FFL and no insurance. If ammo traced back to me ends up used in a crime or blows up someone's gun and they lose body parts my life is ruined.

B. Even if I had item A covered you would end up paying me higher than retail prices as I don't have the equipment or space for mass production.

C. Even if I had items A and B covered you would probably still find something to complain about.

D. If you can't buy a Lee Anniversary Kit for $99.00, read the excellent book it comes with, and start making your own ammo then you deserve to pay retail for ammo and leave the brass on the ground for me to pick up.

[dpaultx]

I don't reload for other people, and I don't shoot other peoples reloads.

Period.

Occasionally someone will ask about me reloading for them. I tell 'em they're more than welcome to come over to the shop, I'll teach 'em what I know, and they can even use my equipment until they can round-up their own.

Only taker I've ever had on that offer was my son who, currently, actually reloads way more volume than I do. But, still, I won't shoot even his reloads.

Got a buddy that, years ago, taught his wife how to reload. She really got into it and to this day, she loads and he shoots. I always thought that was just a wee bit too trusting.

All good . . . Doug

[warf73]

I've never sold ammo but have reloaded/helped reload 1000's of rounds for others. Guess the only difference is they bought everything from the dies to the primers and we made ammo.
I don't worry about an FFL as the ammo being made isn't sold and lots of times they are making it themselves with my press but always with their components. I've never had someone ask me to sell them ammo guess I've been lucky.
But if it were to happen I would just say NO.
Personally if a stranger came up to me at the range and asked if I would sell them ammo it would raise great concern. Why is this person asking me to buy my reloads is he/she an ATF agent or some other alpha bit soup agency wanting to imprison me?

[rhouser]

I reload for no one outside of my immediate family. I offer to teach others how to cast and/or reload using MY equipment.

I will even let others use my equipment with their own components a time or two if I know them and that they are heading towards their own setup.

I do reload for my immediate families use (brothers, sister, son, wife, and grandson). This can add up (timewise), so, I bing load by caliber and then distribute it. I really could use a dillon 550 on occasion to keep up with my family usage.
Just my 2 cents. rc

[armednfree]

I just tell them it's illegal. I do not have a license to manufacture ammo. What are they going to say "Break the law for me"?

[fcvan]

Years ago, I loaded for lots of friends an co-workers. Actually, my friends were coworkers in law enforcement and therefore more like brothers!

The rounds I make are safe and reliable or I wouldn't shoot them. I had personally shot with each of these folks and knew what guns they were shooting. Back then, most of the guys owned .357 Mags and shot .38 Special as our department issue sidearm was a S&W M10 and we shot .38+P 158gr at work.

It was funny to watch them when they showed up at the range with several boxes of store bought and I showed up with a 5 gallon bucket of loaded ammo. I would tell them to put theirs away and save it, and to shoot mine. Most volunteered to pay for ammo before even shooting some. But then I didn't go to the range with moochers either.

By the end of the range day I had explained to the guys (and gals) how easy it was, how reasonable it was, and to come on by the house if they wanted to learn. I had some guys become lead scroungers, some guys would help reload, and some guys would come get the casting equipment so they could have boolits ready for the next reloading session.

Midway ran a deal 25 years ago where if you bought Lee dies, they would sell the Lee single stage reloader for $10. The Lee Speed Dies were also $10 so I bought a bunch of each. I think I gave out 7 starter kits as Christmas gifts to my friends. I gave out the last kit I had 2 years ago when another buddy retired.

I load because I love it as much as I do shooting. I really enjoy teaching others to shoot well and to reload their own. I haven't 'sold' ammo but I sure had a bunch of folks bring primers or powder or lead. I also used to trade 500 lubed boolits for a brick or primers or a pound of powder from other reloading buddies.

If I had a license to reload and sell ammo, I still wouldn't sell anything I wasn't sure that was safe enough for my kids to shoot. Let alone some stranger with an ambulance chasing attorney. Frank

[Sasquatch-1]

Another thing that is interesting about people who will ask you to reload is that, when you offer to teach them they think it is too dangerous and they could get hurt if they don't do it right. But yet they are willing to trust you to do it right.

As I said before. Just mention the gun you blew up with a hot load and they won't ask again. Doesn't matter you never blew up a gun.

[dragonrider]

"Especially as it's a hobby that everone claims to enjoy doing."

That is exactly the point, it's a hobby I enjoy doing, I am not going to make into a job by doing it for someone else. I learned how mostly on my own, they can do the same. Most who ask are just looking for some free ammo without efffort on their part.

[a.squibload]

Had 2 requests this week, one is a friend's coworker
looking to trade brass for ammo (wants cheap ammo).
Had friend tell him the licensing issue.

One friend asked, he bought brass, primers, powder,
bullets, and a die set for 45acp. Showed him the ropes.
He liked reloading his own & has bought a press, etc.
Still trying to get him to cast, think he will.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

dragonrider,

Very good point there!!!!!!!!

Years back, I turned a great hobby, photography, into a business. Bad move.

Did have some very good things happen during the years as a professional photographer, but finally, "BURNT OUT"!!!!!!

It was years later, when I finally made the move to the digital photography, that I began to regain some of the joy the creation of images had once held.

Think twice before you turn a good hobby into a business!

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[Wal']

I say this with great respect gentlemen, but what a bunch of miserable old fogy's most of you all seem to be. :smile: :smile: ;-)

Not hard to work out where they got the idea for the Grumpy Old Men (movie) :kidding:

[squirrelnuttz]

I want to try to be a good ambassador of our sport and the hobby of reloading.Like to get more people to take up both. So, like many of you, I offer supervised use of my equipment, bring your own components.Some talkers, no takers.The only ones who are worthwhile for me to donate my time to load for are immediate family.It's difficult enough to find time to do my own reloading, let alone donate my time to lazy a$$es who just want cheap ammo at my expense, let alone the liability issues.

Should be a good deal, considering the costs of putting together a reloading setup.But still, as noted again and again in this thread, when people find out that there is a lot of effort and time involved, they suddenly have other stuff to do.Fine by me.

[DRNurse1]

Thank you for the mass of good information and experiences reported here. I learned to reload on a progressive from my father-in-law: he provided all the components and the machine, I pulled the handle and assembled the cartridges. Later on he taught me how to smelt and cast. So far I have only wrecked one barrel from a squib load, but it was one I made from his components.
Now, while I do not reload for other folks, I do offer to teach anyone I shoot with the mysteries of saving $0.10-0.50 per round. So far only one taker.
Now I have to ask you folks: Do you really worry about rounds you allow someone else to assemble on your equipment? Also, while I do not advertise, I would happily trade components for the opportunity to use my equipment under my supervision. Is this a bad thing?
This thread also made me think about my self defense rounds: I make them so if I use them am I doubly liable???
Thanks for the thoughtful commentary.
DRNurse1

[Jack Stanley]

I say this with great respect gentlemen, but what a bunch of miserable old fogy's most of you all seem to be. :smile: :smile: ;-)

Not hard to work out where they got the idea for the Grumpy Old Men (movie) :kidding:

Why thank you Wal' :-DI do accept the title with the utmost gratitude . Though I may be wavering a bit on the grumpy part . My pal of the last thirty plus years has loaded for rifle most of that time . Recently , he began with handgun loading and the learning curve that goes with it . Yesterday we had a blastfest at the range and he brought his loads to test . After he was out of ammo , the poor lad looked all forlorn so I opened a can of my loads and let him dive in . He was very impressed how well heavy LBT slugs do at moderate velocities . And , he must have enjoyed it as he used up half a can of ammo 8-)

Fellas I respectfully request you do not expell me from the grumpy old codgers club . After all , he has been a good friend for over thirty years .

Jack

[fatelk]

I think that the folks who are "too lazy to load their own" are generally not really lazy, it's just not their thing. Years ago a friend gave me a three hour tour of his extensive photography and darkroom hobby. It was interesting but I could never get into it.

I have other friends who are into hunting big time, and can't understand why I don't hunt or fish. I gave up hunting about 15 years ago when I realized I just didn't enjoy it and there were other things I'd rather do with my time.

The friend I loaded the .38 ammo for years ago was surprised when I told him I couldn't load ammo for others any more. "I thought you enjoyed it?" he asked. I told him it stopped being enjoyable when it became work.

[ku4hx]

When I price what my loaded ammo would cost to others, which would include costs for my labor and expertise, the conversations usually ends. What I build is custom, purpose built ammunition and it would come at a premium price. A very premium price.

I also mention the laws involved and tell them I have no interest in breaking any. I've never had anybody get upset, most just want to save money and shoot more and see an opportunity to do so.

[303Guy]

A shooting buddy was telling me of a visit to his buddy - he was watching his buddy reload and caught him making irregular powder charges. Possibly bridging, I don't recall but not good either way. I've pulled bullets from someone else's loads and found partially filled cases with powder clumping. The gun that was firing them got damaged with excess head-space and jammed. Good reason not to have others load for us! The same principle applies both ways.

[fatelk]

Very true. Reloading is not for everyone. Some folks just are not detail oriented.

I helped set a friend up in reloading a few years ago; taught him the basics, gave him some good info to read, and helped work up a load for his .300 Win Mag. He called me some time later saying he was having trouble. His ammo wasn't accurate and he had a severe over-pressure round. He had to beat the bolt open and the case head had flowed into the bolt.

After a lengthy discussion about his loading procedures we determined that the problem was a serious overcharge of H4831. I had showed him how to set up his powder measure, settle the powder in it, and drop charges into the scale pan to weigh each one. I'm sure I told him how important it was to weigh and make sure your charge is right.

He had filled the powder hopper with 4831, dropped a couple charges into the scale and adjusted it up until it was close, then decided to just drop charges into the shells because it was quicker. He didn't let the powder settle first, and I assume that as it settled it gave him heavier and heavier charges, from what was already a upper-level hunting load. He's lucky no damage was done, and is much more careful now.

One of the guys I work with is not a detail person. I wouldn't want him loading ammo for me.

[Inkman]

Have had people ask me to make a list of everything they need to start casting boolits to "save as much money" as i do :roll:

I tell them to read up on this forum as much as possible before even thinking about doing it and that they are more than welcome to come over and watch what i do when smelting and casting. That is exactly what i did before deciding to start casting and smelting. A shooting friend and fellow CB member here (Sargenv) let a buddy and i stop by and watch what takes place when smelting and casting. I've been hooked ever since.

No takers on my invite to do the same so far.

As far as reloading, nobody has asked me to reload for them. Most likely because we all shoot USPSA and already reload. New shooters (that we meet in my area) to the sport of USPSA who want to learn reloading usually buy their equipment based on a variety of reasons and go to town with advice from most of us anyway with safety being priority one.

I have had people ask me if they could come by and show them how reloading is done, but they always back out for one reason or another. No biggie, they just don't get offered again.

Al

[cf_coder]

I've reloaded for some close friends in the past, but those are few and far between. The whole issue of liability and not having an 06 FFL is all the reason I need. Now, there is one guy at my auto shop that we have a horse trading deal going. I give him a box of .38s and .45s every so often and he changes my oil. He supplies all his own brass and I put them together. The loads are always mid-range. I already told him I only shoot my "*** kickers" in my own guns. I wouldn't want one of those going off in a firearm that I didn't expressly work up a load for... Works for me.

[Griz44mag]

I have had several ask me to reload for them. I offer them advice, and the use of my equipment. They buy their own primers, powder, bullets and brass. I have had a couple of folks take me up on it. I show them the reloading books, they have to pick out their own loads. As long as it is in spec, I tell them it is a reasonable choice. They must load their own, take their own risk. Most are just looking for cheap ammo, they almost always pass on the offer, the ones that accept are looking to expand their horizons, those I will help, the rest just pass on by.

[Ozarklongshot]

WOW!!! I'm a little stunned by most of the responses. Usually it is me trying to get others into reloading and offering my time and equipment.After 36 years of loading, most of my obscure dies were obtained by teaching someone to load and I get to keep the dies. I'd say that 8 of ten people that have had any interest at all in reloading have ended up in my shop. Many even making return trips with wife or other relatives to learn. It is not uncommon to have 3 or 4 people loading on my presses at the same time. They bring all their components with them. On the up side for me is when they change to a different powder I almost always get the extra. They also bring me brass they don't load for. Recently was given 500lbs of lead out of an MRI rebuild. Just because they knew I would use it and appreciated the start in rolling their own. I am always buying used equipment to pass along to others. My payback has been immense in gifts or other acts of thanks.
I don't know about yall but watching a father learn to load with his 14 year old son then running the product they made over the chrono and shooting some great groups all in the same day and same location is priceless. Nothing but smiles...
It's the door that opens to another world for them and I have many many lifelong friends of all ages because of it.

I will say I rarely have had someone just out for cheap or free ammo, but it has happened. They are usually chastised by others that have gotten their start on my presses.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Longshot,

Like your post.

I think it us up to us as reloaders, to properly instruct those who show an interest.

I have found, that with laying out the facts in the proper way, some weed themselves out right away - don't want to devote the time and/or money - while other jump in with both feet.

For the later group, I don't mind throwing in a bit of powder or a few primers to get them started.

I have been there and done that for years -developing loads-, and that is the reason I have a fairly extensive sampling of powder on hand, much of it left over from my tests and not likely to again be used.

Why not use up some of that powder - if possible - to help someone do their early tests and possibly help them keep from having a supply of unused powder that resembles mine.

CDOC

[seasidehunter]

I love this thread

[Y2K]

It's not re-loading, but close. I drip my own shot, and "friends" keep wanting to borrow some. I have told them they are welcome to use my equipment to ingotize and drip their lead. One person has gone so far as to make ingots---just too busy on a weekend to drip and work some shot. Yet, full time crying about the cost of shooting trap. Duhhh? Is it something about the time it actually takes to produce something?

[fishnbob]

I HAD a friend ask me to reload for him and I told him I would let him use my equipment if he bought his own bullets, primers and powder. After a 2 hour session or so, he left with his reloads and I haven't seen him in 2 years. I used to see him at least once a week. When I told him about the lawyer thing and liability, he said, "I wouldn't sue you". I asked him what about his grandson after he is dead & gone and like I said, I haven't seen him in two years. I had to clean out his rifle after a 4-wheeler accident left about 12" of mud packed in the barrel, and I explained why I didn't reload for anyone, since I don't have any control in the use of ammo or the weapon if it is not in my possession.

[Lance Boyle]

I've run into this a few times.

1. years ago had a friend from the guard just state that he was going to have me do it because I like that [expletive] and he didn't have time for that nonsense. Needless to say I did not do any for the presumptuous person.

2. a decade later I had a coworker keep badgering me to load up for his hot weatherby rifle because he was tired of paying $80 for a box of cartridges. I declined but told him if he bought the dies and come on over and we'll make some ammo for him. He also couldn't spare the time. I told him no I wasn't going to do it. Finally the last time he asked I told him that there was no way I could or would reach the velocities that his weatherby ammo gave him and that we both knew he didn't want waterdowned cartridge speed. On top of that I explained (again) that I could not and would not take on the liability for manufacturing ammo for him if he wasn't part of the production. As a mechanic he understood the liability of your work product and the subject was dropped. I did tell him that he was always welcome to pick up a set of dies and to come on over and I'd help him reload them.

[Sasquatch-1]

I have noticed many of you have told people you would let them use your equipment under your tutelage. This is totally conjector on my part, but I could see liability problems even with this.

An example would be the guy throws a double charge and blows up a rifle and then comes back and says that you were supervising his loading and should have caught the mistake or that your equipment was faulty and caused an overcharged round. I am not saying that you would be found liable in the end but it could cost you a lot in legal fees to prove your innocents.

I think after reading everything here I will just say NO to everyone except my immediate family.

[plainsman456]

I have never sold reloads that I have not shot myself.
That doesn't mean I have never made a mistake or ruined an extractor on a Remington 700.
They usually are hunting rounds and they are made up using their rifles.
Hell I even load for the county DA.
If you can't trust your stuff what makes others think they should.

[Roosters]

Hell I even load for the county DA.


plainsman456 I could see if you don’t blow him up that might come in handy one day !!
:p

[youngda9]

I did it a couple times but won't do it again.

[TNFrank]

I reloaded 30-06 ammo for a buddy for about 5 years each year before hunting season. He'd sit with me and help where he could. If he'd get a deer he'd bring me some of the meat. Finally he got on the ball a couple years ago and bought his own loading set up so he does his own loading now.
As a rule I won't reload for just anyone. They have to be a friend or relative and they have to help do what they can. Also, the entire point is to teach them while I'm reloading for them so they'll finally get the hang of it and learn to do it for themselves.
I really don't see how anyone could shoot much in this day and age if they don't reload with ammo prices being what they are. Also casting your own boolits goes a long way in lowering the cost too.
I look at it as not only having Firearms as a hobby but also reloading and casting as two more hobbies that go along with the firearms. So I get three hobbies for the price of one,LOL.

[One Gun Andy]

I reload for a chosen few; very few. My brother is one of them and he is a particular guy who appreciates the time and effort I put into his ammo. My younger son's father-in-law is a fine man and an outstanding hunter who does favors for many others without any thought of payment, and, he was paying $75 for a box of 20 rounds! (.300 RUM) I offered to make his ammo if he would purchase a few basic components, and he too truly appreciates the work that goes into making his ammo. When someone recently asked him what went into the reloads I do for him, he answered, "I have no idea. All I know is that if I shoot at an elk inside of 500 yards, it dies." I consider it my priviledge to share what I have learned and reload for these gentlemen.