quick question.

[interlock]

Hi folks,
I am new to this casting game. i shoot a 7mm08 rifle and i am considering casting some bullets for hunting with. My shots are going to be pretty short range and on small deer.

At the moment i am looking for a mold. I am looking at lees 130gr rn or 130 gr "soup can"

My understanding is that with normal lead i will be able to load to about 2000fps with a gas check. With harder lead up to 2400fps.

I have loads of lead.

which of the two bullet profiles do you think are best for hunting?

Steve

[kbstenberg]

Steve let me be the first to welcome you to the brotherhood of the silver stream. keep your wallet and plastic close cuz you will be using it a lot.
As to which mold. Your rifle will be the one to ask, which it prefers. You mite ask if anyone has some bullets that you are looking for. And buy or barter for a few to try. When ever I send or receive bullets I like to get all the specifics ( dia., lead composition, lube ) so I have a head start on load development.
Kevin

[Wayne Smith]

"I have lots of lead" is relatively meaningless to us because actual, pure lead is only used for swaged pistol bullets, making swaged bullets, or for BP pistols. If what you have is, indeed, pure lead, save it and trade it to some BP shooters and get twice the alloy you need.

You need to read some of the stickies here and on LASCUS site about lead alloys. You will want a three part alloy, lead, antimony, and tin. You will want to water drop it or to oven temper it to make it harder. You will need a gas check mold.

Secondly, with rifle reloading you will need to size your boolits. This means the first thing you need to do is go get a hollow sinker and slug your barrel. Make sure you do this with pure lead, alloy has springback and will not give you an accurate measurement. Measure with a micrometer, not a caliper. You will need a sizer (lee or other) .002" larger than the large (groove) diameter of your bore. Do this and stay away from unsupported nose pointed boolits and you should have little trouble accomplishing what you want to do. Ignore this and you will be frustrated and likely quit before you go very far.

Specific boolit design is way less important than size. Size is King, alloy is Queen.

[runfiverun]

alloy is not queen.
lube viscosity at a given temperature is.

and your alloy's hardness at velocity will only matter for slumping or skidding, it will not really allow you to maintain accuracy.
the intuition to go harder to go faster wil be counter productive for hunting,as will using the lighter boolit.
you need to look at the shape of the nose as well as the fit and weight.

[waksupi]

For hunting or cast boolit success for all bore sizes in general, you will be better served by a heavy for caliber boolit. I would suggest looking for something in the 160-175 gr. weight for your best results. A flat nosed Loverin would be pretty much perfect for your needs.You will find accurate loads easier to find, and complete penetration of any deer from any angle. It would give you a point blank range of around 225 yards at around 2100 fps. It should be quite possible to reach factory equivalent velocity with the 7-08, although that much speed would not be needed for your purposes.

Welcome aboard!

[quilbilly]

If you are looking for a hunting boolit in the 7mm caliber you might consider the Lee 140 gr. "soup can". It is a custom mold available through Midsouth Shooting supplies. It has a fine flat point for hunting (called a meplat). In my 7mm TCU carbine I shoot both that boolit and the 130 gr Lee round point at velocities around 2000 so both require a gas check. For accuracy I prefer the round point (sub MOA groups routinely) but for hunting deer I would use the "soup can" which usually gets under 2" groups at 100 in my carbine. As for an alloy, if you know you have pure soft lead, I would add about 1# of hard lead shotgun pellets to 3# of pure (plus a little tin to make the alloy pour better) and you will have an alloy that will expand very nicely.

[interlock]

Thanks gents, Your advice is much appreciatted. i will slug the bore as a first stop. i notice the makers of the sizer dies do a .284 and a .285 die. so should be ok there. I was also thinking of a heavier bullet than 130 gr. i will look at that midwest soupcan design.

I would be delighted if i could get to an moa group with some consistancy... to be honest the accuracy of this rifle has never been very good.

I find lots of my hunting shots are really close few past 100 yards. with a high velocity jacketted bullet i get mega carcass damage. If i can mould my own... extend the rifles life.. achieve a good and accurate hunting bullet at these ranges i will be pleased.

thanks again

steve

[x101airborne]

For deer in your range you stated, I dont worry about MOA too much. 2 MOA is more than good for most anything. I am not saying not to see what you can get, just dont fret too much if you arent there come deer season. I am loading the 130 Lee soup can for 2 rifles right now. One is a Win 70 in 7x57 and the other is my son's handi rifle in 7-08. The 7-08 is loaded without resizing brass. I punch primers out with a punch and reprime. When I seat the boolits, I do it by hand (just slip em in) then add a VERY small crimp just to hold the boolit in place. Lee Liquid Alox did ok for me for a while, but I had to go to a better lube. I am using a modified version of "Pinko Commie" lube, recipe here on this site. I seat the boolits to just kiss the rifling. That worked best for me, but try everything for yourself. My powder is 17 grains of 2400. It has pleanty of thump and shoots great for me. I have not shot a deer with em yet, but my son shot a 75 pound shoat pig some time ago and we did not find the boolit. Short track job, minimal tissue waste, great bone breakage. I will say, with almost any small caliber cast boolit, (30 cal and under) for deer hunting I prefer to bust at least one shoulder when taking a heart shot. Sure makes that follow up (shot or tracking) a lot more easier.

[MBTcustom]

I have no further advice than that that has already been given, but I want to welcome you to the forum.
I must say yours is the fist time I have seen a new poster asking such level headed questions, ie, you have reasonable expectations of range and you aren't looking for super-warp speed-pointy-boolits. You already have a better understanding of what it takes to put meat on the table than most folks in America, and I applaud your common sense approach to this. I'm sure you will find cast boolits to be the most effective gamegetters you have ever fired.
I would like to add to the above information, that whatever alloy you have gobs of will work for the distances you are hunting at. You only need 1800 FPS for busting deer at those distances and at that speed, I would think that any alloy with a gas-check would do the trick.

[quilbilly]

FYI - That 7mm soupcan mold drops boolits of my alloy at 140 gr plus or minus 1 gr and the gas check should add a couple more grains.

[MBTcustom]

If you push that anywhere near 2000 FPS, it will drop a deer like a hot skillet.

[interlock]

good steel,
thanks for this.

i am no stranger to deer hunting. i hunt regularly with 30-06 and 7mm08 now but with jacketted bullets. I probably average 25 or so deer a year. The load i normally use in my 7mm08 is a 139 gr jacketted interlock from hornady. a great combination... quite slow about 2700 fps i would think with that short barrel.

The 7mm is a remmy model 7. this is what i use for my shorter range work anyway. i have found the soup can mold greatly reduced in midsouth. I am in email contact with them about mailing right now...

quite excited. feels like embarking on another chapter in my hunting life.

Thanks again

steve

[MBTcustom]

I killed my first deer with a cast boolit year before last. Last year, every deer I shot was taken with a cast boolit. I will never go back.
After taking some game with cast lead, I begin to realize how ineffective jacketed projectiles are. Not that jacketed bullets dont work quite well, but they require lots of speed and design in order to get the expansion/energy transfer. This increased speed tends to fragment to bullet and actually dump more energy than needed which ruins a lot of meat. Cast lead kills cleanly, without all the excessive recoil, muzzle blast, and general shock and awe that goes with the territory with jacketed bullets. Now that I hunt this way, when I think of loading up jacketed bullets I have to ask myself what the advantage is? The only conceivable advantage to shooting Jacketed is better accuracy at long range (300yards plus) and a flatter trajectory. I have decided that if I can't make a kill shot on a deer-sized animal at 200 yards with a cast boolit, then the problem is clearly my hunting skill; not the projectile.
Last year, I did not have this view, but results have irreversibly changed my mind in favor of the flat nosed, gas checked, cast lead boolit.

[waksupi]

I killed my first deer with a cast boolit year before last. Last year, every deer I shot was taken with a cast boolit. I will never go back.
After taking some game with cast lead, I begin to realize how ineffective jacketed projectiles are. Not that jacketed bullets dont work quite well, but they require lots of speed and design in order to get the expansion/energy transfer. This increased speed tends to fragment to bullet and actually dump more energy than needed which ruins a lot of meat. Cast lead kills cleanly, without all the excessive recoil, muzzle blast, and general shock and awe that goes with the territory with jacketed bullets. Now that I hunt this way, when I think of loading up jacketed bullets I have to ask myself what the advantage is? The only conceivable advantage to shooting Jacketed is better accuracy at long range (300yards plus) and a flatter trajectory. I have decided that if I can't make a kill shot on a deer-sized animal at 200 yards with a cast boolit, then the problem is clearly my hunting skill; not the projectile.
Last year, I did not have this view, but results have irreversibly changed my mind in favor of the flat nosed, gas checked, cast lead boolit.

Well said. I have also found the cast boolit to be superior for hunting.

[lead chucker]

And so It begins. I have shot several deer with my cast bullets in 44 mag now I'm all geared up with my 308 win for black bear. It's addictive and so much cheaper to shoot. There's a wealth information to learn here. I owe this sight for the success I have had shooting cast bullets.

[interlock]

one of the reasons i have come to this point is this weekend i killed a roe buck with my .30-06 with a soft point bullet at pretty close range. it was a straight through heart shot. The meat damage was massive.

Last night i had decided i wasn't going to get into casting due to all of the set up costs... now i read this again this morning my mind id made up all the more.

[MBTcustom]

So now you are not getting into it? Did I miss something?
Besides, you are already set up to reload, so all you need as a heat source, and a mold. That should be cheap enough right? I still cast on a coleman stove and a walmart SS pot. Lee makes perfectly effective molds for less than $30.
Don't know what we said to scare you off, but I hope you change your mind for the deer's sake!

[interlock]

no... last night i decided not to... then this morni ng having read your post i have decided definately to go for it and have ordered my mold, sizer and gas checks!

[largom]

Just a warning! Once you start with cast boolits there is no stopping! After the 7mm WILL come the 30-06. Then more molds for different boolits, then more guns for more cast boolits, then more molds. Get the picture.

Welcome to the forum.

Larry

[MBTcustom]

OK, you had me worried there for a minute! Sorry!

[quilbilly]

No turning back now. Welcome to the fold and taking shooting sports to the next level.

[interlock]

after quite a lot of mucking about and unsuccessful efforts... lots of very wrinkly bullets i have finally acieved some success today. I am using 60/40 lead and wheel weights out of my lee soup can mold.

the big break through came when i took the handles appart and scrubbed them in washing up detergent then very generously smoked them.

i also bought a proper lead laddle. Once the mould is hot enough i can pour almost from right into the sprue plate and just angle the mold a little.

Some bullets are "sharper" than others. I think these are from when the mold gets nice and hot. what do you guys think?

steve

[MBTcustom]

Yes, wrinkly boolits mean your mold is too cold. frosty boolits mean the mold is too hot. rounded edges mean your alloy is too cold.
You should need no smoke in your mold. Run your alloy hotter and cast faster until you can make frosty boolits and then back off some on your casting speed. Once you get your heat up, your boolits will fall right out of the mold, and they will be clean and sharp.
Another thing is your mold has to be clean. No oil whatso ever. I blast mine out with carberater cleaner before each session to evacuate all traces of oil that may have creeped into the mold. Just a sniff of oil will cause wrinkly boolits and bad fillout no matter how hot you get the mold.

[interlock]

man... i cant wait to shoot them now

[badgeredd]

man... i cant wait to shoot them now

Provided you have good fit and a decent lube, you'll find the 7-08 is not a finicky cartridge. Accuracy at 100 yards on a par with jacketed boolits is achievable. The soupcan mold is about ideal weight on the light end of the scale while a 175 grain is about maximum IMO. About sizing the boolits, you may find you will have to get a fatter sizer than .285". For some reason the dies manufacturers have the idea that .001 over bore diameter is all we need. My suggestion if you plan on pan lubing, is to get a Lee push through sizer and lap it out to a dimension compatible with your gun...generally for me it has been .287". Check the inside diameter of a fired case and size your boolits to .001 to .002" under that diameter and all will be well. On lube, I suggest you try a lube other than LLA. On occasion LLA will work, but my experience has been that a good beeswax combination lube will out-perform LLA about 98% of the time in rifles at higher velocities. I personally prefer a lithi-bee lube but that is entirely up for discussion. Welcome to the forum and the support group here...:bigsmyl2: One other thing that'll get you going in the right direction is to super clean your barrel of ALL copper fouling.

Once you've taken your first deer with a cast boolit, I am sure you'll see the wisdom of making your own boolits and expanding your horizons to other calibers with cast projectiles.

Edd

[BK1]

I'm new to the forum but have been pouring alloy for 30 some years,always learning n often impressed with results.Like many things it is what you make it,DON'T start out spendy just start.Enjoy.LEE is a good place to look,try Nathhez shooting supply for very good pricing.

[UBER7MM]

Interlock,

One thing you might consider if you haven't yet purchased a mold yet is matching the length/weight of the cast bullet to the twist of your rifle. The longer bullets work well with tighter twists. I've found that a 1/9.5 twist barrel will shoot a Lyman 287641 (160 gr) bullet accurately, however a 1/10 twist barrel won't. I should think that you're safe with the 130 gr Lee soup can in either case.

The 7mm-08 is a good cartridge. You should have lots of enjoyment with cast for hunting.

[Reload3006]

personally I don't find frosty boolits to be all that offensive. They will run just slightly over size which is a good thing when you go to uniform them and size them. I don't mind the frosty appearance at all and my gun has never noticed the difference. If you have to err err on the side of hot. getting your mold up to temp is critical to making good uniform boolits. Sometimes especially when I am casting with brass molds i keep my mold on a hot plate until I get frosted boolits then just cast (I am not all that fast) so it cools down from there to good casting temp. and my boolits start coming out the way I want them to. Just remember the worst thing that can happen is you have to chuck your boolits back into the pot you really cant go wrong. Main thing is enjoy what your doing it will work out.

[smoked turkey]

Welcome Steve.
I have lurked here for quite a while now and its amazing I still learn something when I read a thread like this one. Oh I have known a lot of the info in the past but my little brain leaks some out and I have to keep coming back! You have been given a wealth of info from some of the best in the business here in this thread but continue to read and apply the knowledge. It is a continual process for me. The looks of a nice boolit as it comes out of the mold still amazes me even though I have literally done it thousands of times.

[white eagle]

I am sure everyone has said it but fit fit and fit
once you have fit all else will follow
meplat needs to be bigger and or a hp for hunting
ymmv fwiw

[dromia]

Hi Steve welcome to the forum, good to see another UK member joining the ranks.

If you are intending to shoot deer with cast here in the UK then I would check out the legality of it with BASC or one of the Gamekeepers Associations if you haven't done so already.

As well as the calibre, bullet weight and velocity minimums the bullet must also "Rifle bullets must be either hollow nosed or soft nosed. Note: this is generally interpreted to include “ballistic tip” and other bullets designed to deform in a predictable manner."

I would be interested to hear advice on the use of cast bullets in relation to this.

[Grandpas50AE]

Goodsteel's post reminded me of why I started using cast boolits to hunt with 30+ years ago. I have taken deer with cast .44 mag. pistol boolits in both handgun and Ruger Carbine, also with cast .45/70 from a Marlin 1895 lever gun using cast 500 gr. boolits, .357 mag. using 175 gr. cast boolits over the years. I noted early on the same as Goodsteel - tissue damage and hemhorage was vastly reduced from that of the jacketed bullet results. The cast boolits give full penetration (have yet to have one that isn't a through-and-through), kill cleanly and quickly, and are lower velocity (more manageable) than the jacketed.

Many years ago I began the cast boolit journey after reading some of the history of firearms development, paying most attention to the old west buffalo hunters. Cast lead boolits effectively took game for 200 years until the modern powders and bottleneck cartridges were developed at the beginning of the 1900's, so I began using cast boolits back in the 1970's and have never regretted it. On one of the whaitetail hunts at my old camp in Arkansas, one of the folks that used a .30/06 noticed when were were cleaning our deer that my deer had almost no meat destruction at all, where his had a whole front quarter that was un-savable. He also started hunting with my cast boolits (.357 mag 175gr. in pistol) and later joined in for muzzle-loading when he saw how effective they are.

This is a great journey, enjoy it.