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SlippShodd
05-27-2012, 01:42 AM
Since I had the day to play, I took my time with smelting my range scrap, doing a bit of personal research along the way; pretty much reinventing the wheel, but satisfying my own curiosities. I started with 20 pounds of scrap, picked out of berms at some of the local shooting areas in the desert. I usually segregate the cast boolits from the J words and smelt them separately so I can blend my own alloys somewhat accurately. I figured this was mostly a moot point for the bulk of my shooting needs since I really only cast for handgun rounds. I have a fair stock of wheel weight and linotype alloy accumulated over the years, and the segregated range scrap has been useful for blending with those. A while back I just started smelting my range pickings all together and adding a bit of tin when casting and the resulting alloy has been more than satisfactory; something a lot of you already knew.
Today I figured I had a pretty typical mix from the ranges, but I sorted out all the cast stuff before I melted it down to get an idea of what the composition of the mix would be. Out of 20# of dirty scrap, there was 3.34# of cast in the mix. After the usual amount of fluxing, stirring and skimming, I took out 2.66 pounds of jackets and platings. I screened the dirt and ash out of the dross and added the dross back to the melt, fluxed, skimmed and poured my ingots. That resulted in 17.1 pounds of clean ingots. The resulting dross that wouldn't return to the mix weighed 3.62 ounces, and I lost 5 ounces of jackets to the magnet, leaving me with a little over 2 pounds of #2 copper to sell to the recycler. I don't have a hardness tester, but I use the pencil scratch test to determine consistency in my alloys. Just like the last batch of ingots I poured like these, the hardest pencil that wouldn't scratch was the "B", putting the BHN higher than 10 and less than 15, or somewhere around that magical 12 BHN number.
So out of 20# of starting metal, 17.1# of usable alloy (85%), plus 2.66# of jackets (13%), equals 19.76 pounds, plus almost a 1/4 pound of dross (about 1%) and I can account for most of 20 pounds; I didn't weigh the dirt :). About 12% of the jacket weight was lost to steel. A little more than 19% of the resulting alloy started life as cast boolits. I figure that's a pretty typical smelt for me, YMMV, but probably not by much.
My 20.5 cents worth, adjusted for inflation on the silver standard.

mike

Any Cal.
05-27-2012, 11:10 PM
I don't weigh all the components, but that sounds much like I have been getting. My guess was about twelve percent cast, but it depends on which range is getting picked over.

runfiverun
05-27-2012, 11:23 PM
give those ingots about 10 days and re-test them and see what you get.
i get a lot more cast boolits than jaxkets from my range.
that probably explains why i don't get much brass either.

SlippShodd
05-28-2012, 12:27 AM
give those ingots about 10 days and re-test them and see what you get.

Yeah, it was too soon, and I did compare to a week old ingot of similar mix, but you're right.


i get a lot more cast boolits than jaxkets from my range.
that probably explains why i don't get much brass either.

I can always tell when the reloaders have been shooting versus the others; same sort of problem.
There's one berm out there that traps projectiles best and it's easy pickings, but after taking a couple hundred pounds of this kind of mix out of it so far this year, it's drying up a bit. May have to let it rest a while.
I'm always a little surprised when I find a lot of cast... figure they was shot by folks like me who would dig their's and a lot of others out of the dirt before they went home.

mike

btroj
05-28-2012, 07:01 AM
I find very little cast, other than my own. I get mostly 45 and 9 mm FMJ roundnose bullets.

I don't separate them at all, they all get melted together. I find the resulting alloy works quite well for much of my shooting. It makes great pistol bullets and reacts well to water dropping.

Any Cal.
05-29-2012, 04:06 AM
Out of sixty lbs today, ended up with forty-three or so of good lead, the rest jackets, sand, tmjs, etc.

bslim
05-29-2012, 08:17 AM
After smelting 740 Lbs. of jacketed bullets, I ended up with 214 Lbs. of #2 copper which I sold to the scrap dealer for $180/lb. $385 paid for my propane, truck fuel and a nice chunk of pocket change, to say nothing of the nice stack of lead ingots waiting to be cast into bullets.

Any Cal.
05-29-2012, 12:23 PM
How are you getting the bits of lead out, and the jackets looking good enough to get the better pricing? Mine are all blackened, and often trap small bits of lead in them on the way out.

bumpo628
05-29-2012, 03:56 PM
How are you getting the bits of lead out, and the jackets looking good enough to get the better pricing? Mine are all blackened, and often trap small bits of lead in them on the way out.

I haven't done it, but maybe you could try tumbling them.

When I turned them in at my recycler they just asked me what they were and accepted my word for it.

bslim
05-30-2012, 07:13 PM
I find that keeping my melt fairly hot and stiring the melt, the jackets will float to the top. I use a screen ladle approximately 6" in diameter to scoop out the jackets. While they are still over the pot, I jiggle and flip them on the ladle. This gets most of the lead out. I then toss them onto a concrete floor and any remaining lead flies off of the jackets. It takes a while to get a system going, but once you find the trick, it works quite well. The color of the jackets is dark but they still give me #2 copper pricing. When I frist started, I never got all of the lead out and they priced it as brass, but finding out how to do it right pays big dividends quickly.

SlippShodd
05-30-2012, 09:10 PM
While they are still over the pot, I jiggle and flip them on the ladle. This gets most of the lead out. I then toss them onto a concrete floor and any remaining lead flies off of the jackets.

I use a SS skimmer that I bought at the dollar store and do essentially the same thing, only I slam them into a steel can so the molten stuff is contained. I rattle the can a bit then scoop the jackets into another container and toss the drippings back into the melt. I tried tumbling the jackets in sand and water, but it was just too much additional effort with no effect on the price, so I'm back to just taking them in dark. Whatever I get for them is all bonus fun money as far as I'm concerned... a little extra gas money to make more trips to the desert.

mike

gbrown
05-30-2012, 09:26 PM
Over the past month, I have gone to our range and hand picked bullets as we can not do any thing to damage the back stops in any way. I had talked to the club president to make sure I was not causing a problem. He gave me the okay. Anyway, I got about 35#, 25# + 15# by just picking up ones I could see on the surface/moving loose dirt around. This is 3 trips, spending about 3 hours total doing it. I smelted this the other day (I don't seperate or clean) get the smelting pot hot, skim, flux, skim and pour. I ended up with about 50-55# of good ingots. I mark it "Range". Down here, best time to go is the middle of the day when it is hot. (We are at 90+ now) Work, yes--hot and sweaty--yes--do I have more than I did? Yes. All well worth it to me.