Newbie needs help!!!

[nemesisenforcer]

Hello all. I've been reloading for years but I'm new to bullet casting.

Been having issues with the bullets I'm casting and I'm hoping the collective expertise here can fix my ignorance.

I'm casting 45 ACP and 357/38 special.

I'm using Lee molds (the 158 SWC with gas check for the 357 and 230 grain LRN for the 45.) I'm using 6 cavity molds on both.

The issue is, of course, barrel leading. I'm using wheel weights for alloy and shoot a Taurus 1911, a SIG 220, a Ruger GP100, Ruger SP101, and Rossi 357 (all the revolvers are stainless barrels and the autos are carbon steel tubes.)

I get the leading pretty much no matter what, i.e. whether I size (using 357 and 452 Lee sizing dies for the record) or if I shoot as cast, lubed or unlubed, and irrespective of velocity, except at the very low end (500 fps for the 45, a little faster on the 357s.)

I've figured out how to get the lead out thanks to this site and the sticky and am very appreciative of that, but I'd like to avoid the problem altogether if possible.

From what other casters have said I shouldn't be getting leading at anything under magnum velocities so I must be doing something wrong.

I'm using Lee Alox lube and have gas checked the 357s and that helped some, but there's still a distinct residue after shooting and a full on layer of lead in the 45 barrels.

Please help.

[462]

Many possibilities, here, but here are two quickies.

1. Have you slugged all the cylinder throats and barrels? If not, do so using soft lead slugs and measure with a micrometer.

2. Have you measured loaded and pulled boolits, again with a micrometer? It's possible your loading method and/or seating and crimp dies are swaging the boolits.

[geargnasher]

If you have leading, it's because you have either a gas leak around the boolit at some point or rough spots/copper fouling/sharp edges (like some autopistol throats have a sharp step at the base of the lands).

For the automatics, look for a sharp step between the end of the chamber and the rifling origin. You might consider tapping an unsized boolit into the throat about halfway and back out again to see if the throat shaves lead. Shavings get vaporized and ironed-on the bore surface the same way gas-cut material deposits when boolits are too small. Also do a bore "slug" with a dead-soft lead slug tapped all the way through to see what the groove dimension is. Use a good micrometer for all measurements.

For the revolvers, "slug" the barrel all the way through, then do another slug of just the muzzle end and tap it back out with a couple of brass rod sections inserted through the frame opening. Compare the two slugs to see if there's a restriction where the barrel screws into the frame. Restrictions here are common and cause the boolit to get swaged undersized and leak gas (and lead!) after passing the frame area. Most importantly, measure the cylinder throats by pressing boolits through them and measuring. Many times the cylinder throats on revolvers will be smaller than the groove dimension, which causes the boolit to be undersized upon entering the barrel, so it will lead the whole barrel because it can't seal the powder gas.

Like 462 mentioned above, you will want to measure some pulled boolits to make certain your cases aren't swaging your boolits undersized. Generally, we like our boolits to enter the barrel with about one thousandth of an inch interference fit so they compress and make a tight seal. I think .357" is too small for your .38/357s, rarely have I seen a gun that didn't prefer .358-.359" boolits.

Liquid Alox is a marginal lubricant. Sometimes, if the load is perfectly balanced (powder, neck tension, boolit alloy, gun dimensions, static and dynamic boolit fit is perfect) it works flawlessly. Other times it will make you pull out your hair until you use a solid lube.

Straight wheel weights don't have any tin to speak of in them, which can result in what we call "antimony wash". This is a dull grey haze in the barrel that sometimes sticks badly, but usually comes out pretty well with only a bronze brush. Range scrap made from antimonial lead bulled cores also lacks tin and can leave this "wash" behind even if everything else is right. Tin binds with the antimony in solution and makes an intermetallic compound that is tougher than either by themselves in a lead alloy, and also has the benefit of "holding" the antimony better and reducing or eliminating this wash. 1-2% tin is plenty, and tends to help boolit fillout and nice, sharp edges and bases too. Keep your lead pot temperature below 750F when casting with alloys containing tin or you'll lose it.

Let all this "download" for a bit! It's "The rest of the story" that most casting books don't bother to tell you.

Gear

[runfiverun]

in addition.
pick a gun and work on it [learn from it] ,then move on to the next one.

[geargnasher]

Steller advice there, Run. Once you figger it out for one gun, the rest become easier as long as you know what you did to the first one that made it work.

Gear

[nemesisenforcer]

Thanks a ton, guys.

You're right: this is stuff the loading manuals leave out.

I thought that the Alox was the likely culprit, and it turns out I may have been right.

As for the tin, do I have to buy the $40/1-2 lb ingots or is some other cheaper source available? I didn't start casting my own to spend a lot of money on materials (I get the wheel weights for virtually free, which was my motivation.)

Any suggestions welcome.

[dbarnhart]

I can't speak to .357 but for .45acp wheel weights or reclaimed range lead should be just fine without adding any tine.

If you only need a little tin, get a spool of lead-free solder from the hardware store. If you need larger quantities, scrounge for English Pewter at estate sales, rummage sales, etc.

[ShooterAZ]

You can get tin cheaper at the hardware store in the form of solder. 50/50 is half lead, and half tin. This is getting hard to find. Also some "lead free" solder is 95% tin, and 5% antimony. I have used this one to alloy my sheet roofing lead, which I understand to be pure lead. Worked quite well.

[nemesisenforcer]

I'm headed to the hardware store tomorrow for some lead free solder.

Also, with regards to the lube, I just read an article in Handloader magazine where the author used SC Johnson Paste Wax for lube; thoughts?

[runfiverun]

that is nothing new.
go to the lube section and look at recluses 45/45/10 lube.
you'll find about 4 different variations of it.

[geargnasher]

Lots of guys selling good grades of lead/tin solder in the Swappin'/Sellin' section of the forum, that's where I get all of my tin, I've made several good purchases there in the last couple of years, particularly when assayed 63/37 electrical solder comes up. A few pounds of solder goes a long way, I usually add a pound of 63/37 per 50 lbs of wheel weights.

Gear

[Greg B.]

I have two .357 Blacjhawks that I use for cowboy action. If I use wheel weights at .38 Sp velocities they are fine; if loaded to .357 velocity they lead. I have to cast linotype to avoid leading at higher velocities. This was simple and easy to do and it worked otherwise I would have to do the other stuff that is being suggested in the above posts. Check out Glen Fryxell's article on the Los Angeles Silouette Club site. Good manual on casting revolver boolits. Don`t know anything about the .45 ACP.

Greg B.

[runfiverun]

greg try water dropping your ww mix and letting them age for a couple of weeks.
it might save you some money over the lino-type