45LC vs 44mag

[Jamesconn]

I want a levergun and revolver combo. I was going to get a ruger blackhawk and a marlin. Which caliber offers the most versatility to the reloader/caster?

[btroj]

Man, this is the ultimate Ford/Chevy arguement.
Good points on either side.
I own a Marlin and Ruger in 45 Colt. I also have a Ruger in 44 mag. I find them all easy to,load for.
In the end it comes down to personal preference.

[Jamesconn]

I like dodge better

[felix]

Depends on the gun. The one with the smallest relative chamber to the loaded round is the one I would pick. The odds are in your favor with the 44mag. Either cartridge would be just as good as the other when having a custom barrel installed. ... felix

[Stick_man]

:coffeecom

I'd have to say it is whichever combo you happen to have. They are so close to the same, as long as your revolver is one of the newer ones that can handle the high pressures like what the .44 generates, either caliber will work great for whatever shooting fancy has caught your eye.

Also, the .44s may be a little bit easier to find. Seems like everybody that makes revolvers offers them in .44mag, but not everybody offers them in .45LC.

:2gunsfiring_v1:

[TheCelt]

I want a levergun and revolver combo. I was going to get a ruger blackhawk and a marlin. Which caliber offers the most versatility to the reloader/caster?

Well, I guess the best answer is "it depends" . They are both a lot of fun to shoot and cast for so I guess it's a matter of preference.

The 44s will be a little cheaper as the cowboy shooters keep the prices of the 45 Colts higher. I know the gamers have all gone to 38s/32s but a lot of them still prefer the 45Colt.

As for versatility I'd have to give the nod to the 45Colt. I cast and load 160gr RN, 180 gr PBHP, 200 gr RNFP, 225 gr RNFP, 225 gr TC, 255 gr SWC, 275gr SWC and 300 gr SWC from 600 fps to 1100 fps. I can shoot any of these loads in my Ruger 45s, Marlin 1894 or Winchester 1873 without a hiccup. It is an amazingly accurate and versitle round even if it's one of the first cartridges ever developed.

Now I'm sure there's an equal number of 44 molds available at an even greater velocity spread (it is designed for higher pressures) so you have a LOT to consider before making up your mind!!!!

After reading this I figure I haven't been much help at all!!!!!

[Potsy]

I've wanted a .45 Colt Levergun for years but have never found where Marlin built there '94 w/a 16.5"-20" Barrel for a light short carbine. Instead, they've built a long, heavy 26" octagon unit for the CAS crowd.
Had a Win. '94 Trapper .45 Colt, traded it, regretted it ever since.
Currently looking at Rossi.
Revolverwise, I love my 5.5" Bisley. I might consider a 4-5/8" gun on a little lighter frame someday (vaquero or USFA).
If BFR builds a .45 Colt (not real sure), you might take a look at them. Their chamber and throat specs will probably beat Rugers.
As far as the cartridges themselves, I do think in a Blackhawk, at the upper end of where you really want to take a production 6-round Blackhawk, a .45 Colt can do a little heavier lifting at lower pressures than the .44 Mag. But I can't think of anything I'd shoot with my .45Colt that I wouldn't with a similar load out of a good .44.
On the lower end with plinking loads, again, one is as capable as the other if you're casting and handloading.

Just some stuff to consider, no real firm opinions offered here.......

[bigboredad]

In this debate I think It really comes down to personal taste. In the real world their are very few that can shoot the upper end of either caliber. on this forum you'll find guys that not only shoot the upper end they also look for more than what can be offered and they go to the real big guns. think about what you want not anyone else and think about what what is easily available in your area. It sucks waiting for components to come in the mail especially when the components are readily available for the caliber you didn't choose.Jmho good luck

[TheCelt]

My Marlin 1894 has a 20"barrel. I had a 24" but prefer the shorter barrel. The 26" octagon barrel is on the Marlin 1895 which is a 45-70, but that's another thread altogether!!! both are fine shootin rifles!

[btroj]

It also comes down to what you can find in your price range. I like Marlin lever actions so I bought a Marlin CB with the 24 inch octagon barrel. Balances like a fine shotgun, just slightly muzzle heavy for a smooth swing.

I don't think game will even notice a difference between the two.

Buy what trips your trigger and never look back.

[Dennis Eugene]

Can't believe no one else has said this, but here goes. "Get them both" just trying to help. Dennis

[1bluehorse]

I have 45 colts, started on them years ago (about 20) because I thought I wanted to "play" cowboy action shooting. After going to several "shoots" decided it wasn't for me. No reason to go into why...if I had it to do over again (as in now) I'd go 44mag. The two are so close together in performance (if you handload the 45 colt, yeah I know you can buy hi performance 45 colt ammo but it's EXPENSIVE) that it's a wash for capability. It's also my opinion you can get a 44mag to shoot accurately "easier" than the colt. (actually I think the 44 is inherently a more accurate round to begin with) It's also easier to find 44 mag "stuff" and it's generally less expensive to boot.. YOMD (your opinion may differ)

[Thumbcocker]

My experience has been like Bluehorse's. In my experience 44's are more loader friendly. The colt can be equally accurate but, in my experience, it can be hard to get the accuracy.

[runfiverun]

it took me quite a while to find a 4-5/8ths bbl length 45 colt revolver that would fire the heavier loads.
14k pressure revolvers are easy to find,i just didn't want to mess up and drop 19 grs of 2400 in one of thier cylinders.
i needed one to carry with my levergun, [oddly] the 45 colt levergun was much easier to find.
[i have 4 of those]
i had to order the 44 mag rossi and wait for it to come.
so having gone through the trouble of pairing up a bunch of leverguns and revolvers i find that i favor my 30-30 lever gun,and my 41 mag [hunter model] revolver the most for hunting and general carry.
followed by my 45 colt 20" round bbl and my 30 carbine revolver.

[geargnasher]

I have no suggestions, but here's my experience.

.44 Mag tends to be a little easier to make accurate because, like Felix mentioned the chambers are typically a better match for brass and dies. .45 Colt chambers tend to run way large, and the poor loaded cartridge fit affects accuracy. .44 Rifles tend to have the wrong twist for heavy boolits, though. .44 Mag brass is generally cheaper and more available than .45 Colt, and lasts longer.

.45 Colt tends to be my favorite because I can get the same velocity per grains with less pressure. Simple physics, bigger diameter boolit. I also like .45 Caliber in general better than .44, just my personal preference.

Bottom line, they both work, good rifles, carbines, and revolvers are made in both calibers by a variety of companies, and boolit moulds are plentiful for both. Work up a load for the revolver first, and when you get it shooting straight, try it in the rifle.

Gear

[Char-Gar]

My experience has been like Bluehorse's. In my experience 44's are more loader friendly. The colt can be equally accurate but, in my experience, it can be hard to get the accuracy.

This would be my thinking and reasoning also.

[EDK]

Hi James, it's been awhile.

You have "opened the can of worms" once again. For starters, go over to lasc.us and read Glenn Fryxell's article on 1894 MARLINS. There are a lot of other articles that you will want to read...and the book that is there also. Glenn is THE MAN on castboolits.

There are articles and forum postings all over on this discussion. 45 COLT has some dimensional issues in various fire arms that can really drive you crazier! Brass is not as readily available as 44 Magnum or as cheap; likewise factory ammo for the most part is loaded low end because of extremely old (and not so old!) guns with varying tolerances and strengths...just consider RUGER NEW VAQUEROS versus Original Size VAQUEROS or BLACKHAWKS...consider the various SINGLE ACTION ARMY clones that are imported from Europe also. I watched a gentleman blow up a nicely engraved colt replica at a Cowboy Action shoot. POP...POP...KAPOW!!!! Look up RUGER ONLY loads in the extremely cautious LYMAN reloading manuals and see what I mean.

You're doing your homework AND other posters have given some good advice and opinions. If it cools off and doesn't start raining, I'm going to walk down to my little shooting range...with a pair of 44s and maybe the Cowboy rifle.

:redneck::cbpour::2gunsfiring_v1:

PS First truck was a 71 Ford; second was a 77 Chevy 4 wheel drive; third was an extended cab 96 Dodge RAM 4 wheel drive that 310,000 on it when the grandson rolled it!

[MikeS]

Well, considering that in the Ford/Chevy debate you chose to go with Dodge, then I know just the gun for you. I'm actually surprised nobody's mentioned it, but you might want to look at the 44WCF aka the 44-40. From your post it sounds like you want to get a traditional 'old west' duo, and while the 45Colt is I think the oldest metallic cartridge still in production, it was never chambered in a lever gun until modern times. The real duo of the 'old west' was the 44-40. I've never loaded any, but I understand they can be a bit challenging to load, although if you're using modern guns which are much stronger than the old timers you can load the 44-40 quite a bit hotter than it was originally loaded.

If I was going to get a combo (rifle & revolver), I would personally go for 45Colt, but that's because I already have 3 single action revolvers in 45Colt. Just my 2¢, and it's probably not even worth that much!

[44man]

Gear comes through again! The .44 can be better in a revolver but the twist is wrong in most rifles. There was an evil gremlin jumping from rifle maker to maker to come up with a 1 in 38" twist.
I think I would go to the .45 Colt in a Ruger, fix any throat issues and use the same loads in the rifle.
I understand some SBH Hunter models were made in the Colt, that would be ideal.
The BFR custom shop will make a .45 Colt.
There are no flies on a .45 and rifle twists are better.
Stay away from smaller guns like the new Vaquero, Colts or clones if you want hunting loads.

[Mal Paso]

I like dodge better

Dodge/Cummins here! Very happy with 44 Mag.

[1Shirt]

6 O' 1, and Half Dozen of another. Depends on weapon,shooter, load, etc.etc.etc. Agree with Gear!
1Shirt!

[mdi]

Well, I like the .44. I have a Puma (1-30" bbl twist), a Ruger SBH, a S&W 629, a Dan Wesson 44H, and a Contender, all in .44 magnum. I chose .44 Magnum/Special because my Grandpa's carry gun (in the '30s and '40s) was a S&W Model 17. First time I saw it was when I was about 12, and that thing was huge, but it looked small in Gramps's hand. He carried it with him when he lived in Cut-and-Shoot Texas, and I guess in the back of my mind I thought if it was good enough for Gramps, it's good enough for me. I haven't compared my .44s to any .45s, nor studied any ballistic tables comparing the two, so my choice was strictly family history...

[nvbirdman]

If Ginger was holding a 44mag rifle, and Maryanne was holding a 45colt revolver, oh, never mind, I'd just want them both anyway.

[geargnasher]

"If I had to choose, between the two, I'd pick both rich AND in love, I ain't no fool!"-----Little Feat

Gear

[warf73]

Probly no help but my combo is a 45LC model 94 carbine and 44mag SA. I have the best of both worlds in my thinking.

[Forrest r]

I went with the marlin/ruger combo in 44mag 20+ years ago & would do the same thing if I had to do it all over again today.

I just found that I use/shoot more 44mag/spls in different firearms & that there are more offerings out there for those calibers than the 45lc.

[2ndAmendmentNut]

Man tough choice. I personally would go with a 45colt over the 44mag, but that is me.

[trk]

Can't believe no one else has said this, but here goes. "Get them both" just trying to help. Dennis

I agree. I have '94 trappers in .44 Mag and .45LC.

.45LC is easier on the ears and feeds smoother.

Both fun guns.

Better selection of bullets in the 45LC too.

If I had but one of them it would be the LC.

[Any Cal.]

Get a handgun in .44, and get a rifle in .444. You will be able to use most of the same components, but will get the best performance out of both platforms.

-Well, at least once you get the forearm/barrel band fit and a trigger job done on the Winchester, anyway... :D

[Swampman]

The .44 Magnum has a bigger rim. It's better in the levergun and it's more powerful even when using reloads.

[Lloyd Smale]

I have and shoot quite a few in both in handguns and rifles. Ive allways been partial to the 44. Its been a bit easier to work with over the years especialy in handguns. Like 44 mag said in rifles id have to give the 45 colt a slight edge in accuracy. Contrary to what some believe they both are equal in the hunting field. Ive shot many deer bear and pigs with both and using bullets close to the same weight at the same velocitys never saw spit differnce between them. Comes down to personal preference more then anything. Buy either as niether are a mistake.

[762 shooter]

Only in America could a discussion of the merits of 44 Mag and 45 Colt contain a reference to Little Feat.

What a country!

I have both but the Colt has the 44 beat by 0.023".

762

[TJF1]

-i have both ruger 45lc and rossi 45lc
ruger 44 mag and marlin 44 mag.
Terry

[44man]

-i have both ruger 45lc and rossi 45lc
ruger 44 mag and marlin 44 mag.
Terry
The difference between them is nil.
If Marlin would have listened to shooters instead of some pencil neck at a desk and made the gun 1 in 20" to 1 in 25", the discussion would never happen. They would have a jewel and would never be able to produce enough.

[Rockchucker]

I shoot them both, However the LC probably has the edge since it's my newest caliber.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I prefer 44 Mag.
But I can't argue with most of the points that have already been mentioned.

Here is one consideration that hasn't been mentioned yet.
Range Brass !

Scrouging range brass is tough now-a-days because of scrap metal prices,
So I don't really make a special effort like I use to.
with that said, it seems I rarely would find 45 colt,
those shooters must be more likely to reload.
With 44 Mag and/or 44 spl. I did find them at the range regularly.
maybe it's the Dirty Harry Factor ?
Jon

[fcvan]

I totally agree with finding what you like. I started with a S&W M57 and picked up an 1894 Marlin also in 41mag. Awesome combo. I picked up a Vaquero in 38-40 and would love a carbine to match. I picked up an H&R 1871 Classic Carbine last year in 45 Colt and loved it! I would love to get a 38-40 barrel made for that rifle. I recently picked up an old Vaquero in 45 Colt and have enjoyed loading mild to wild in the newer, stronger weapons. The wife just picked up a Ruger SBH 44 Mag and will likely want a carbine to match. Why so many combos? I blame dad. He started it with an M1 30 carbine and a matching Ruger Blackhawk. Frank

[paul h]

I like dodge better

Then you want a 480 ;)

As to 44 or 45, flip a coin, there's really not something you can do with one and not the other.

I'm not really joking about the 480, sold my 44 when I got my 480 and have neve looked back. BTW, I drive a 2500 ram cummins.

[pmer]

I went with 45 Colt in 4 5/8 NMBH and a 20'' Rossi. The rifle likes larger sized boolits though.

There's another combo that I would consider too, and looking back I wish I would've discovered it sooner. The 357 Mag. Lead and components go further, you can make low report loads for the rifle and there is some strange magic on target with 16'' or 20'' barrels and full power loads.

I shoot more 38 than 44 or 45 and big 45s are why I started casting.

Is the 357 Ford or Chevy..

[lead chucker]

I like both but lean toward the 44 mag its made for the presure. guys with the colt say they can push just as hard with the colt as the 44 with the right gun. i would get the 44 and it wouldnt mater what gun pistol or rifle. I find alot more once fired cases at the range in 44 than 45 colt. I love my 44 pistols and rifles they will stay with me till i die.

[bigboredad]

I like both but lean toward the 44 mag its made for the presure. guys with the colt say they can push just as hard with the colt as the 44 with the right gun. i would get the 44 and it wouldnt mater what gun pistol or rifle. I find alot more once fired cases at the range in 44 than 45 colt. I love my 44 pistols and rifles they will stay with me till i die.

aint it cool we live in a land to have so many choices to fit all of our taste

[luvtn]

aint it cool we live in a land to have so many choices to fit all of our taste

Yes, we live like Kings and Queens in this land of ours. I have had a Ruger .44 mag off and on since 2004. I now have a Redhawk, a Hawes, and a S&W 629-3. Naturally I just bought a Rossi Puma in .44 mag to round out my group.
lt

[Longwood]

I recently got back into shooting after a lull.
I used to load for several calibers but decided to keep it simple and only have stuff that shoots 45 long colt and 45-70.
It sure is helping make things much easier.
I can Paper patch 45 bullets to shoot in the 45-70 and get by for years with just one mold.
I have very little body fat now and the way the 45 rifles smack my shoulder, I don't think a 44 would be as fun to shoot.

[lead chucker]

There are a lot of guys who want bigger more powerful hand guns and rifles and there is definitely nothing wrong with that but the 44 mag will still kill any thing walking this earth. Elmer Kieth is my hero.

[lead chucker]

I have a 45acp/ 45 colt black hawk convertible I like shooting them both but always find my self shooting the 45 acp cylinder. I have shot some pretty stiff loads with the colt cylinder but it's not as comfortable to shoot as my 7.5 inch red hawk with the 44 mag loads. I jus plain like the 44 mag. If I have a bunch of lee 310 gr bullets and a pound of 2400 I'm a happy guy.

[bigboredad]

I have a 45acp/ 45 colt black hawk convertible I like shooting them both but always find my self shooting the 45 acp cylinder. I have shot some pretty stiff loads with the colt cylinder but it's not as comfortable to shoot as my 7.5 inch red hawk with the 44 mag loads. I jus plain like the 44 mag. If I have a bunch of lee 310 gr bullets and a pound of 2400 I'm a happy guy.

And there ain't a dam thing thing wrong with being happy. Trust me Elmer Keith is not only a hero to you:???:

[Lead Fred]

Had the handgun, the lever was the logical thing to do, in 44 mag

[turbo1889]

speaking specifically in reference to the quality of the engineering of the dimensions of the brass the 44-mag. is superior to the 45-LC brass. Better rim dimensions, better head strength and usually just a touch thicker brass at the mouth giving better neck tension. Over-all the brass for the 44-mag is better designed and will take higher pressures better and take more re-loads.

As far as the quality of the chamber and throat cuts usually the 44-mag. guns are also much higher quality with tighter better fitting chambers then most 45-LC guns.

However, it is also true that the 45-LC is capable of developing the same performance levels at lower chamber pressures then the 44-mag. and there is generally better bullet and load data selections available (assuming your going to stick to book loads and "off the shelf" molds).

That would make it "6 of one vs. half dozen of the other" except for one critical component. You said you were looking to get yourself a matched pair of a revolver and lever gun carbine. There are significant problems with the current offering of 44-mag. carbines both in terms of considerably and deliberately oversize barrel dimensions and too slow of twist rates offered in most of today's lever gun offerings in the 44-mag. Groove dimensions that are deliberately set-up to run 0.432"-0.434" with slow twists of 1:32,1:36, or 1:38 with many production guns is absolutely deplorable and inexcusable maliciousness on the part of the manufactures of 44-mag. lever gun carbines and so significantly tips the scales of the balance.

Long story short, if your going to buy an "off the shelf" gun for your lever gun carbine then 45-LC is your best option not because the cartridge itself is better then the 44-mag. but rather that most of the 44-mag. lever guns have been deliberately and maliciously "messed over" by most of the manufactures and they should be approached with extreme caution to the point of it being necessary to demanding to be allowed to slug the bore and measure the twist before you are willing to make a purchase of one of them.

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
When I was much younger I got the old model Ruger Super Blackhawk in 44mag. loved it.
Then got the 444 Marlin in the rifle . Loved it.
They were my close timber bear guns, oddly they did just fine on deer as well. Who would of thought?:bigsmyl2:
Then I got stupid & parted with both. [smilie=b::Fire::Fire:

[bigboredad]

HI,
When I was much younger I got the old model Ruger Super Blackhawk in 44mag. loved it.
Then got the 444 Marlin in the rifle . Loved it.
They were my close timber bear guns, oddly they did just fine on deer as well. Who would of thought?:bigsmyl2:
Then I got stupid & parted with both. [smilie=b::Fire::Fire:

I feel your pain:groner:

[lead chucker]

Yup me to I bought a marlin 44 mag several years ago and traded it off for something else I had to have, been regretting it ever since. I redeemed my self a couple years ago and got a ruger 77/44 it shoots better than the marlin it has a 1-20 twist and handles the lee 310 pretty good. I shot a 1 1/4 inch group at 56 yards last weekend for me that's real good.

[Ziptar]

I want a levergun and revolver combo. I was going to get a ruger blackhawk and a marlin. Which caliber offers the most versatility to the reloader/caster?

There is no easy one size fits all .44 Mag vs .45 Colt answer, its a matter of personal preference. You will have an easier time matching up your bullets to a .45 Colt rifle and revolver then a .44 Mag.

In the end you'll pick what works best for you and what you prefer. In the real world however, in the end when the projectile hits the target the end result is basically the same its how each caliber does it thats different, however, the differences are so small they only matter on Internet forums. :D

Just as others have said, I've no suggestions for you, just my personal preference.

As a reloader and bullet caster I prefer the .45 Colt due to it's simplicity, versatility, and accuracy. I don't need a Magnum nor do I enjoy shooting them, just too loud and too much recoil for my liking, too harsh. For me the .45 Colt is just a sweet shooter, I can do it all day, its an absolute pleasure to shoot. It is difficult to load any ammunition that is not accurate in the .45 Colt from 140 grain round balls to 350 grain wide flat nose bullets, fast or slow, jacketed or cast. There is a wider variety of loads at my disposal. When it comes to reloading components I've seen no difference is price or availability of brass, powders, and primers. When it comes to range brass I've found equal amounts of each over the years. I've no trouble finding plenty of .45 Colt brass to trade for.

There is allot of myth and incorrect or at the very least outdated information out there about the .45 Colt. What follows is my thinking and experience with the .45 Colt, especially if we are going to compare it to the .44 Mag. I hope at least some of this is useful to you.

The fact of the matter is the .45 ("Long") Colt we use and talk about today is nothing at all like the original .45 Colt of old, today's .45 Colt and the old .45 Colt are the same in name only. It's really a newly invented caliber. It is an entirely new cartridge loaded with modern powders and used in modern firearms, best way to think of it in our modern computer age is as the .45 Colt Versions 1.0 and Version 2.0 maybe. The original .45 Colt case was a folded balloon head design, it was thin rimmed, and had a slight taper to it. Todays modern day .45 Colt brass has more in common with a .44 Magnum case in appearance, design, and strength than it does it's original namesake of 1873 origin.

I see lots of discussion about the strength of .44 Mag over .45 Colt brass, it is simply incorrect. The .45 does have less rim protrusion than the .44 but, we are talking 2/1000 of an inch in diameter, thats the thickness of the sides of a zip-lock sandwich bag, the rims are of equal thickness. The modern .45 Colt rim is much larger now than originally back in the 19th century with balloon head cases. Today's .45 Colt Brass is just as strong as .44 Mag brass, in fact Starline tests their .45 Colt brass to .44 Mag pressures and Dick Casull used regular .45 Colt brass in his development of the .454 Casull. Nowadays you'll find manufacturers use brass of equal thickness when manufacturing both calibers from the same brass stock using the same methods. Its the same strength top to bottom and left to right either way and of no consequence.

Somewhere along the way the design and manufacture of the brass changed. Then along came more modern firearms with stronger steel and designs. All of this allowed for the .45 Colt to be loaded with smokeless powder to levels never possible or even contemplated with black powder and the Colt SAA at least until Elmer Keith came along.

Elmer blew up his Colt SAA with heavy .45 Colt loads and decided we needed something better and so the .44 Magnum was born. Thats kind of funny because, the birth of the .44 mag in a round about way is what led to the "redevelopment" or "relaunch" of the .45 Colt and all it is today.

One could say Elmer even though he abandoned it, actually wound up creating that hotter and heavier .45 Colt he originally started out in pursuit of.

So the modern day ".45 Colt" is a newly invented caliber but, the guy who makes up and assigns new calibers names must have been off that day and nobody gave it a new name.

You might find this reading helpful:
Linebaugh's Custom Sixguns - The .45 Colt - Dissolving the Myth, Discovering the Legend Heavy Bullets in the 45 Colt (http://www.handloads.com/articles/default.asp?id=5)

I think Linebaugh says it simply and best.

In a technical sense the .45 Colt is a big caliber, large capacity case that must operate at low chamber pressure compared to many magnum rounds. The fact that it has more capacity allows this to happen. In general loadings the .45 Colt will do anything the .44 magnum will do with about 6000 to 10,000 CUP less chamber pressure, depending on the load and bullet weight used. With standard weight slugs the difference is not as wide as it is with heavy slugs.


Also just wanted to clarify some info about the 1894 also.


If Marlin would have listened to shooters instead of some pencil neck at a desk and made the gun 1 in 20" to 1 in 25", the discussion would never happen. They would have a jewel and would never be able to produce enough.

Marlin did make 1:20 twist rifles and I own one. It's an 1894 .45 Colt with a 20" microgroove barrel with a 1:20 twist, and you are right it is a jewel!

It was only when Marlin finally DID listen shooters (specifically CAS / SASS shooters) that they stopped making them. Shooters told Marlin they wanted ballard rifled barrels instead of microgroove because they felt that the deeper ballard rifleing would better chew into their ill fitting factory sized ammunition. Marlin complied and did away with the 1:20 twist microgrrove and started putting 1:38 twist ballard rifles on their .45 Colt 1894s.

http://www.leverguns.com/articles/fryxell/microgrove-barrels.htm

On the subject of Marlin microgroove barrels:
...the Marlin Micro barrels are similar to the legendary Harry Pope's barrels. That said they ARE accurate with cast bullets as long as the bullet is properly fitted to the bore.

Thats according to Veral Smith in his book "Jacketed bullet Performance from Cast Bullets"




I've wanted a .45 Colt Levergun for years but have never found where Marlin built there '94 w/a 16.5"-20" Barrel for a light short carbine. Instead, they've built a long, heavy 26" octagon unit for the CAS crowd.

Actually it was a 24" octagon unit, and You haven't been looking hard enough for a shorther one.... There's plenty out there. :grin:

1894S: 1988-91 45 Colt 20" Round Barrel: 984 Produced
1894S : 1993 45 Colt (*Not cataloged*): 875 produced
1894SC: 1997 .45 Colt 16.25" barrel, *Not cataloged*, Special Run for Davidsons, Lettered from Marlin: 1050 produced
1894IV Cowboy Carbine Limited: 2001 45 Colt Serial Nos 1894IVXXXX *Not cataloged*, Special Run for Davidsons, Lettered from Marlin, Rollstamped "Cowboy Limited", uncheckered , 20" tapered octagon barrel: 1000 produced
1894CBC (Cowboy Competition Carbine): 2003-2007? 45 Colt 20" octagon barrel, case finish, tuned action, blued bolt: ???? produced
1894H: 2002-2006? 45 Colt *Not cataloged*, Special Run for Big Five stores. Walnut finished hardwood stock version of 1894 & 1894C. Sold as a special for $299.95.: produced ????
And currently, 1894.45 Colt 20" Barrel (ballard rifled) produced for Cabela's 2008-Present SKU# 3034232 (http://www.cabelas.com/pump-lever-action-marlin-model-1894-lever-action-rifle-1.shtml)

[44man]

Ziptar, The .44 is the only Marlin I know of that has the wrong twist.
When the .444 came out it was also 1 in 38" but they changed it to 1 in 20" and it made everyone happy.
I have measured micro groove barrels and Ballard. Both have the same rifling depth of .003", at least on those I did. I don't know what advantage the Ballard is over the micro groove? I feel they should be deeper for cast.
I love Marlin rifles but never got the .44 to shoot as good as my SBH.
My friends have other calibers like the 30-30 and they are tack drivers at 100 with cast. The 45-70 guide gun is wonderful. If I had the money, I would have one in a second!
I contacted Marlin about the .44 and they sent me a copy of Greenhill to explain it. :groner:

[paul h]

There are a lot of guys who want bigger more powerful hand guns and rifles and there is definitely nothing wrong with that but the 44 mag will still kill any thing walking this earth. Elmer Kieth is my hero.

Not saying a 44 won't kill all kinds of critters, heck elephants have been taken with 22rf's, but the 44 might not be the be all end all for the biggest of critters. A friend who's hunted extensively in AK and Africa has taken moose and cape buffalo with the 44, using SSK heavy cast bullets, and he was not impressed with the performance on game. Maybe it was the smaller meplat of the SSK bullet, makbe it was just trying to do too much with not quite enough gun.

The way I look at it is, not what will work when everything goes perfect, but what will work in the real world where you don't always get the perfect shot presentation you read about in the magazines, and you place your shot a little off the mark.

Shoot the biggest gun you can shoot accurately, and shoot it accurately.

[MasS&W]

.44. You can always download a purpose built magnum. You can't always hot load a 150 year old cartridge. They're both sweet to reload for though, no case lubing or rifle primers to fuss over.

[michiganvet]

If you are into power loads in a rifle, the answer is clear. The .45 Colt brass lacks the strength of the .44 Mag brass. Beyond that whatever your personal choice is what matters.

[Artful]

The .44 Magnum has a bigger rim. It's better in the levergun and it's more powerful even when using reloads.

Ding, what my gunsmith friend told me when I picked up a combo bigger than the 357 rossi and 357 Dan Wwesson I was using, and he added you don't have to worry about the strength of any handgun you pick up as with 45 colt strong loads.