Toyota Rant!!

[rockrat]

I have a 2004 Tundra. Just got through spending over $3K to O/H my transmission. Less than 87K on the odometer. Tranny shop said that it is the first one they have seen , with that few miles on it, go out. They usually last 150K or so.

Worst part is, I had the same shop service it at 36K and at 72K, where they noticed a bit of metal. Decided to run it, but keep an eye on it. Shop said I might be looking at an O/H soon. Decided to have it serviced again, 14K miles later, sure enough, about a 1/2 teaspoon of brass in the bottom of the pan, so O/H time. Turns out the torque converter was self-destructing and thats where the metal was coming from.

Called Toyota to report what happened and the premature demise of my tranny. They asked if I had Toyota service my tranny, and I said no, because they only flush the tranny and don't drop the pan. Lady said, since they didn't service it, they can't take the word of an idependent shop and Toyota won't help me. Told her that the independent shop is the place where our Toyota dealer sends the transmissions off to be O/H'd and they are a certified GM O/H shop. She hemmed and hawed and said they couldn't help since the Toyota dealer didn't do the work.
Figured that since it destructed early, Toyota could help with the cost, but no go.
Then to add insult to injury, Oxygen sensor went out two days later, 7K after warrany expired!!

I have bought 5 Toyotas (new/used)in the last 10 years. Gonna have to think hard about getting a sixth one. Wife might twist my arm wanting one , some day, but I think I will just drive this one till the wheels fall off. Thought about trading it off and getting one of the new Toyota trucks, but not gonna happen now.

I don't really haul anything with the truck. I think the biggest load was 1 ton, trailer and load, that I took a total of about 70 miles. Its my daily driver. I am a big guy (6'4"-300lbs)and have always been a truck guy. Tough for me to fit in many cars. I am tall in the body and my head usually hits the ceiling.

Shop did say that if I pull the drain plug on the tranny pan, once a year, and replace the fluid, that the tranny will last alot longer. Keeps the additive package up to where needed.

OK, minor rant over.

[oldred]

That's a streak of bad luck for sure but I wouldn't give up on Toyotas just yet, although I have never owned one, preferring Ranger trucks myself, the usual Toyota reliability record is fantastic to say the least. I personally have had excellent service from the Ranger trucks and own two of them now, including my son's we have four Rangers in the family and one has 360,000 trouble-free miles on it-still a daily driver! I point this out about the Rangers because my neighbor chose to buy a new Ranger a couple of years ago solely because of the excellent and extremely economical service I have had from mine, unfortunately it seems his has been a lemon from the day he drove it home! It has an annoying vibration that the dealer cannot seem to find, it has a mysterious and so far elusive engine mis-fire that comes and goes, it has suffered from ignition coil failure, etc, etc, body problems include water leaking into the cab and now the paint is peeling! The point being no matter what the make it seems lemons do happen.

[FergusonTO35]

I'm a former Toyota dealership technician and this is the first story of this sort I've ever heard of. At least when I was there, Toyota was very concerned about low mileage vehicles out of warranty with serious problems. My advice: start making noise. Take it to a dealership and have them give you an estimate on the repair. Then, if they won't cover it demand that a Toyota representative meet you in person there. Bring as much documentation as you can as to how the transmission has been serviced. Don't take no for an answer. They will eventually fix your truck, you just have to be persistent.

[MBTcustom]

I'm a third generation Toyota enthusiast. I have owned 5 of them myself (those salesmen are good!!! It doesn't help that I already believe in the product!)
I'm driving a 2007 Tacoma now, but my favorite truck so far was a 2005 Tundra. I have owned a 2004 Tacoma, a 2005 Tundra, a 2007 Tundra, a 2007 Tacoma, and a 2007 Yaris.

Mom drives 2006 a Seinna, dad drives a 1990 Tacoma, sisters Emily and Hannah drive 1996 Camrys, brother Nathan drives a 2004 Camry, Brother Alex drives a 2007 Tacoma and sister Carrie drives a 2004 Sequoya. They are all die hard vehicles and we love em.
You will have maintenance from time to time though and I'm sorry to hear about your bad luck!

[montana_charlie]

I have a 2004 Tundra. Just got through spending over $3K to O/H my transmission.

Worst part is, I had the same shop service it at 36K and at 72K, where they noticed a bit of metal. Decided to run it, but keep an eye on it.

Called Toyota to report what happened and the premature demise of my tranny. They asked if I had Toyota service my tranny, and I said no, because they only flush the tranny and don't drop the pan.
You 'kept an eye on it' for 50 thousand miles while it self-destructed.
Was it still under warranty at 36K, when the evidence first came to light?

FergusonTO35 thinks you are a 'victim'.
I don't ...

CM

[GLL]

I have owned five Toyota 4x4 trucks and two Landcruisers. All had standard transmissions . Not a single transmission problem and all made it over 300,00 miles. Replaced clutches at 150,000 on all of them. I still own one of the old Landcruisers I bought new in '87 (now 360,000 on the odometer) and purchased another new stick-shift Tacoma two years ago. For me the key has been to avoid automatic transmissions. As a geologist I work in very rough terrain carrying very heavy loads and the auto transmissions I have seen on Fords and Chevys seem to die an early death! Never used one on a Toyota though.
Push the dealer where you bought your Tundra a little harder and see if they can help.

Jerry

[softpoint]

I just bought a new Tundra in December, 4x4, Texas Edition, 5.7 V8, tow package. I only have 3K miles on it, but it is the best handling, best running light truck i have ever owned. And it's assembled right here in Texas. I'm hoping for as good service life as others have reported they got out of them. From what I hear, tranny failure at 87K is very unusual, to say the least. I believe I'd keep bringing their attention to it.:smile:

[starmac]

The time to have brought it to there attention was before it was repaired.
As a former shop owner, I know for a fact the shop you took it to knew this also, they will not help you on a private shops word.

I did get dodge to replace one for a customer that was out of warranty, but did so by taking the transmission to the dealer for them to inspect and see the defect.

[jcwit]

I've done a drain and fill on all my auto trannies every other oil change, done it this way for years & years. Nothing better than having new fresh tranny fluid in there.

[rockrat]

MC
Drove it for 14K miles. Long out of warranty even at that time (3years 36K out of warranty). Worked fine for that 14K. No noise, no problem with performance/operation. I could have had it O/H'd then or now, no difference in cost. Only difference is tranny would only have made 72K miles then.

starmac
Yeah, probably should have had Toyota look at it, before O/H, but unfortunately, I have a business trip soon and needed it for that trip. Figured anyhow, that the shop I had do the work, was the one that did the O/H's for the Toyota dealership anyhow, their word should carry a bit more weight.


You decide, victim or not.

[omgb]

When I bought my 2002 Ranger new, there was an anoying metalic sound coming from the area of the TO bearing when in neutral and ideling. The dealer said it was a known issue and that there was no fix as it was considered "normal" Well, 8 years and 79K miles later I lost the ability to shift just befor getting to Malad ID on the way back to LA from MT. I used power shifting to "force" the truck back to LA with only 3 and 4th gear accessable. Talk about a trip. Took the truck to the dealer and ..... I needed a new pilot bearing (it was ground to trash) a new throw out bearing (again, ground to trash), a new slave cylender (all of the seals were gone) and while we were at it a new pressure and friction plate assembly. I forget the exact cost but it was in the neighboorhood of 2K. Oh and that sound? It doesn't make it any more. This is my second Ranger. The first went to 157K without a hitch. A month after the clutch issue, I had to replace the fuel pump at a cost of $1,500. Oh well, machines fail.

[dagger dog]

The advice on the drain and refill is gold, Toyota is one of a handfull that actually puts a drain plug on the transmission.

A good rule of thumb is 30,000 miles or 2 yrs for normal service and 1/2 that for severe service.

Drain and refill usually gets about 1/2 of the used fluid out, the rest is trapped in the valve body and torque converter.

I like to do my own once a year, it only adds about the cost of an extra oil change. Just sold a 1997 Corolla, with 275,000 miles and never had the trans filter replaced just drain and refill.

Also have a 1993 Chev G20 van with 150,000 miles it is my tow vehicle, it gets a fluid and filter every year.

I am a 35 yr plus auto mechanic ASE Master Certified , IMHO your problem is not the norm with Toyota, you should ask your selling dealer to speak with your factory sevice rep, if you had the sevice preformed at the specified service intervals and can document the service he should help out.

[oldred]

a new throw out bearing (again, ground to trash), a new slave cylender (all of the seals were gone) and while we were at it a new pressure and friction plate assembly. I forget the exact cost but it was in the neighboorhood of 2K. Oh and that sound? It doesn't make it any more. This is my second Ranger. The first went to 157K without a hitch. A month after the clutch issue, I had to replace the fuel pump at a cost of $1,500. Oh well, machines fail.



Those prices you quote are common if you took it to a dealer or maybe even just a local repair shop, still, that's some really steep labor charges! Fuel pump on my 2001 Ranger was was $96+ change and took me all of an hour and a half to install, would have been done in just a few minutes but the bed must be lifted which is not as big a job as it sounds. The 300,000 plus miles 96' Ranger needs a clutch now and all the parts you quote come to less than $220 and it's also about an hour and half in a decent shop with a trans jack, I realize all too well about overhead but the actual time involved here is not that much compared to the total labor bill you are apparently paying. Now before someone thinks I am being unrealistic about these times I assure you I am not because I do this often as a side business since I am retired and have the shop and equipment available to me, heck Bubba could change that clutch in a couple of hours or so on a dirt floor! Don't misunderstand I am not saying you were cheated and I agree that top notch maintenance can be expensive BUT finding a good independent mechanic and being a regular with him can save you some big bucks, the key is GOOD independent mechanic- shop around.


My aunt took her 96' Ford Crown Vic to the local Ford Stealership to have a windshield wiper motor replaced and they charged her over $750! This part is less than $80 from a parts store for the lifetime warranty version and takes less than a half hour to install! Parts store replacement parts are, contrary to popular belief, usually as good as dealer parts IF you choose the premium line, also where you buy makes a difference and places like NAPA will normally carry premium parts.



EDIT: I have to take back the dollar figure I quoted for the clutch parts, I just noticed you also included the slave cylinder/throw-out bearing unit which is around a hundred bucks by itself.

[monge]

Toyotas are great trucks i work in the transmission field toy and nissan have a problem with there radiators the engine coolant and trans oil mix the water in the trans causes the clutch material to come off this may have been your probem! As for the O2 sensors they may have been wacked when the took the exaust off to remove the trans they are pretty fragile like a spark plug. If I owned a toy out of warrenty I would mount a seperate trans cooler in front of the radiator and bypass the factory one in the rad just plug the lines! Just my two cents1

[41 mag fan]

Have a '96 Tacoma....300k miles. Mother drove it for 130k on gravel roads for her mail route.
so far they replaced with a rebuilt tranny, so we bought it for the price of the tranny, $1500.
Last nov we had to buy a new head for it, 4 cyclinder. that was $2500.
But the mechanic, whom i trust, looked at the motor, and said for back then with 296,000 mi on it, it was the cleanest he'd ever seen. Said it was worth the head, instead of a new motor or new vehicle.
2 1/2 yrs since we bought it and it's still running. My wife loves it, so we will keep it till it's no longer feasible

[nvbirdman]

A friend of mine took his Toyota to our local Ford/Toyota dealer and was told that there was a major problem that wasn't worth fixing so he had to buy a new truck. Another friend took his Ford truck to the same dealer and was told that it needed a part that was no longer available and he should buy a new truck. He called Ford in Detroit and they told him they had plenty of those parts. I won't shop at our local Ford/Toyota dealer.

[Fishman]

So your truck was running and shifting fine, your shop said to keep an eye on it, you or perhaps the shop then found some brass shavings in the pan so you got it overhauled? Sounds to me like you may have just spent $3k for no reason. What made you decide you had to rebuild it? I mean, if it's working???

[Trail Finder]

I have a 1985 4Runner with 354K miles on it. I also have an 06 Tundra. So far so good. Both fun to drive

[captaint]

So, buy a Silverado like me and you won't have to sweat the trans service & replace. I know, I know..... Somebody had to say it !!! enjoy Mike

[bobthenailer]

After working as a technican in a dealership for 40 years ive seen people get things that they did not deserve and IMO other people did not get things that they should of deserved.
I would get full doctumation and call toyota directly and talk to a factory personal , not anyone at the dealership, the squeeky wheel gets the grease , perhaps they would do a full or partial pay ? Ive seen this happen many times in the past. also tell them how many toyotas you have owned and that you are a loyal customer.

[alamogunr]

Interesting thread! Our last 2 cars have been Toyota Avalons. The first went 200K before SWMBO(literally) decided we needed a new car. The next one has gone 90K in almost 6 years. We expect to keep this one at least 4 more years. We are older now and don't drive as much. Never a problem with either.

This thread about trucks was interesting to me because I will be in the market for a new(to me) truck by the end of the year. My F150 is now over 14 years old and still running great. I probably don't drive it over 6-7K per year now. I will probably spend the rest of the year perusing threads like this to help decide which brands to focus on.

[oldred]

A friend of mine took his Toyota to our local Ford/Toyota dealer and was told that there was a major problem that wasn't worth fixing so he had to buy a new truck. Another friend took his Ford truck to the same dealer and was told that it needed a part that was no longer available and he should buy a new truck. He called Ford in Detroit and they told him they had plenty of those parts. I won't shop at our local Ford/Toyota dealer.



Are you saying a car dealer would tell you something that's not true? :holysheep Shocking!!!!!

[popper]

On my 2nd 4-runner. First one was rear-ended by 10 ton truck(2004). Replacement one(2006) doesn't have a tranny fill or dipstick! Tranny fluid is in the torque converter and pan. Not much brass in them, except thrust bearings. Parts costs are going WAY up, as is labor. We need St. Patrick to drive the snakes out of this country.

[Lloyd Smale]

I have a sliverado and have been driving chev trucks all my life. I will have to say thought that there auto transmitions have about the worse reputation of any auto on the market. My local mechanic bought a diesel chev to plow his business and he said he knew better then to get it with an auto and special ordered it with a stick.
So, buy a Silverado like me and you won't have to sweat the trans service & replace. I know, I know..... Somebody had to say it !!! enjoy Mike

[geargnasher]

So, buy a Silverado like me and you won't have to sweat the trans service & replace. I know, I know..... Somebody had to say it !!! enjoy Mike

The 4L60E is a good transmission......for a CAR.

GM's been updating that goofy contraption since they came out with it in about 1984. Since then they've revised the valve body about two thousand times, added an aux. valve body with an abuse valve, changed the pump configuration at least three times, altered the springs in the 3-4 clutch, changed the sprags, re-configured the planetary gears, changed the style of input shaft seals, redesigned the clutch packs, 2-4 servo and 3rd accumulator piston, on and on and on. They finally have ended up with a pretty decent transmission with a spec'd 75K mile lifespan. Granted, most of them last longer than that, and torque converter failures are rare, but they still have some significant weak links and if you don't take religious care of them, failures are common.

Toyota's Aisin automatic trannys tend to be very good, but seem to have a bad reputation because the rest of the vehicle will outlast them even with poor maintenance. Rockrat's failure wasn't typical IMO, usually you see 150-200K miles on a Toyota auto tranny before it quits. But like I said, even then people think they're junk because they are typically the first major component to fail.

Gear

[rockrat]

Went to the dealer and talked to the owner. He said he will talk to the regional service rep about what happened.

Got out my receipts for the work I have had done. Actually , first service was at 24K miles, not 36K. Second was at 72K, third at 86K. Too much metal in the pan to ignore. Figure if I kept driving it, then might lose major parts too. Thrust bearing in the converter were what was going. Owner of dealership (known him for years) made copies for the rep.

Have had an '02 Avalon, '06 Sienna,'07 Rav4 and '10 Highlander(Wifes car) in addition to my truck. Never a problem with any of the others. Oil/filter changes @3K-4K. I keep my vehicles maintained and write everything down, when I do service them. Comes from being an A&P mechanic at one time.

[square butte]

I checked lst year and was not able to find a single new 4x4 full size pick-up that could even be ordered with a manual transmision. Toyota Tacoma can still be had in manual.

[Lloyd Smale]

My buddys is an o6 so i dont know if theyve stopped the option of a manual or not in the chevs ..

[GLL]

All of my old Chevy 4X4 trucks had the 4-speed with super compound low 1st gear, very heavy duty clutches, and 4.54 rears. Loved them and they were bullet-proof. I learned from those trucks to always buy standard transmissions. Every Toyota truck I have ever owned has had a standard transmission and I have never had a single problem. Even the clutches have lasted ! My latest Tacoma 4X4 has a 6-speed. It is great but 1st gear is not as low as my old Landcruisers or Chevys. It took me three months of shopping here in California to find a Tacoma 4X4 with stick though !! The dealers said they rarely ordered them and that they were difficult to sell. Everyone seems to want an automatic.

Jerry

[enfield]

how would anyone hope to have warranty on a 2004 truck ? I am a service manager:killingpc at a ford dealer[smilie=b: and if someone came in looking for warranty on a 2004 truck I would have to say sorry but its 4 years outside any warranty. they all brake thats why I drive old unsofisticated vehicles cause I see too many $$$$ vehicles with troubles every day. just my rant (ha)

[rockrat]

enfield

Maybe because it is so unusual to have a problem so early compared to normal course of things. Maybe to help out a good customer who has had an unsual problem and to want to keep him as a customer.

Maybe that is why I have only bought one FORD and don't plan on buying another.