.45 shotshell loads

[44man]

I thought I would play around so I made a punch for wads out of LDPE. I have some tweaking to do with shot charge and crimp but made a few to try. I used 8.5 gr's of Unique. I shot the first into mud at 10 feet. Holy smokes, what a blast. I only have no. 9 shot and want to get no. 12. I put 130 gr's of shot in but could use a few more pieces. I am using unsized cases and just putting a little flare on them.

[Dale53]

Snake loads should work to at least 20 feet. I, some years ago, when I first started loading shotshells for revolvers, thought I might be able to get decent results to 25 yards. Well, I quickly disabused myself of THAT notion. However, I have used a number of ways to load shot shells in various calibers and have settled on using the Speer Shot capsules in the calibers available (.38/.357, .44 Special/.44 magnum, and .45 Colt). I only use a few in a year of woods rambling for poisonous snakes so the cost is kind of irrelevant.

It IS important to use #12 shot. I get MUCH better coverage with number 12 as there is simply a LOT more of shot. I wander around in Ky and Tennessee and we arguably grow the biggest Eastern Diamond backs around and I guarantee that a properly worked out load with Speer Capsules and #12 shot will do the job.

The only really successful shot pistol I have used on small game is the TC Contender .410 pistol. Now THAT is a shot pistol. I have carefully patterned my TC and I get as good a result at 25 yards as I would with a .410 shotgun. That is no fooling. It is a dandy small game gatherer if you realize that it is going to be harder to hit moving game with a shot pistol compared to a shot gun. Some practice on the skeet field is called for. However, I and a couple of my friends have actually harvested pheasants with this pistol. Get them close and "on the rise" if you want to kill and not cripple.

Dale53

[Scrounger]

I found a place that lists #12 shot (Also #10 and #11); it is $23.95 for 10 pounds with $8.95 for shipping. Puts it out of my league... I wonder if we could find a source to sell us 100# at a more decent price and do a group buy thing on it? We could get 10# of it in a USPS $4.05 Flat Rate envelope. Even $0.50 a pound for the shot would be bearable then.

[44man]

Ballistic Products has it for $20. I don't have snakes to kill but I want to have fun shooting the carpenter bees. That is a LOT of shooting and I don't want to pay for shot capsules or gas checks. Cheap is good!

[C1PNR]

Somewhere in the storage shed I have a box of 50 "5-in-1" blank cartridge cases. They used to use them in Hollywood to simulate all kinds of loaded ammo, from .44-40 to .45 Colt, because of the bullet shaped extension of the brass past the normal cartridge length. Mine are not loaded, but rather primed cases.

The only reason I bought them was to use as .45 Colt "Snake" loads. I'm guessing a few grains of Bullseye, LDPE (or cardboard) overpowder wad, poured full of #9 to #12 shot, and an overshot wad of some sort, would make a fine snake getter from 5 to 15 or 20 feet out of a 3 to 4" barrel.

And I've hopes of finding them when we finally get the garage/shop building up this Summer.:drinks:

[32 20 Mike]

Ballistic Products has it for $20. I don't have snakes to kill but I want to have fun shooting the carpenter bees. That is a LOT of shooting and I don't want to pay for shot capsules or gas checks. Cheap is good!

I had an old 1917 S/W 45 that I used half moon clips with cut down 308 cases to the edge of the cyl. and then fire formed. I used 2 grs of bullseye with a egg carton cut wad. And a case full of # 8 shot covered with elmers glue. It would take the starch out of a coiled snake out to about 10 ft.

[woody1]

If y'all can or will use #10 shot, Widener's has a ton of it at a price you can't beat. And if you ask them, they'll ship two bags in a flat rate box for about $12 or so. I e-mailed them a while back about the flat rate box when I wanted some of their shot and they said, "yeah, they could do that." Regards, Woody
http://www.wideners.com/itemview.cfm?dir=278|321|339

[Orygun]

I used to load shotshells for my .41 mag. Got some .410 shot cups, trimmed to length, filled with #9 shot and I don't remember what kind powder charge, then crimped in a gas check. Worked well! Now I just use the #9 shot to plug sizing die holes.

Back OT, has anyone tried the CCI .45 shotshells? I've been meaning to pick some up and try them as I read favorable reviews. A little spendy to shoot many of them, but for my purposes it wouldn't be too many.

I have to deal with those pesky rattlesnakes on a daily basis in the summer and early fall months and my S&W 640 with .38 CCI shotshells do quite nicely, thank you.

But still, I would like to try them in my .45. CCI uses an aluminum case with the Berdan style primer as it prevents "casual reloading", but wonder if.........[smilie=1:

Here's a couple of sites on the subject;
http://www.gunweek.com/2005/feature1001.html
http://home.freeuk.net/4-10/mwnotquite410.html

[scrapcan]

45 acp shotshells.

As mentioned earlier you can use cut down 308 family or even 30-06 family brass to make ACP shotshells. The easiest thing is to use a cut down 410 wad and some form of overshot wad. If you could come up with a punch the correct size, you could make your own overshot disks out of metallic or non mateliic material.

I think you could use the 410 shot cup in the 45 long colt also, but hve never tried.

One other thing is that military brass will work but it is mroe difficult to work with and to get to function when formed to 45 acp.

[BAGTIC]

"Snake loads should work to at least 20 feet"

I have never really comprehended the purpose of 'snake loads'. In many states non-venomous snakes are protected and venomous ones are only to be killed as a matter of human safety.

A snake that is detectable and identifiable at 20 feet is not a threat. The most dangerous ones are those you don't see until after the fact. They should be close enough to take revenge on with an ordinary load.

Now I don't have any objection to killing dangerous snakes that are hanging out around the house where kids and pets play but why the fascination with hunting them down. Realistically many more people are killed every year by bees, wasps, and spiders than by snakes so why don't hunters carry fly swatters?

[44man]

We don't have any dangerous snakes but boy is it fun to shoot those bumblers out of the air.

[Senor Chisme]

Orygun
I have used the CCI .45 shotshells in all three of my Par-Ords. Not only do they feed well, they cycle the action. The only drawback is that I think they use #9 shot and I prefer #12. I load #12s in the Speer shot caps for .44 Spl. All other calibers I purchse the CCIs. However, I just acquired a .41 Spl and might have to manufacture shotshells for that caliber also.

[Dale53]

bagtic;
I think my post made it clear that I don't shoot harmless snakes. They are beneficial. However, poisonous snakes around people is a BAD combination. I am particularly afraid when children are around. They don't understand the dangers and their low body weight put them at "life risk" when bitten by a poisonous snake.

When I am in a wilderness situation and if the snake is far enough away to present no danger I don't bother it. However, if the snake "gets within my bubble" then he has "had the lick".

Frankly, I have backpacked over many days and weeks alone in snake country. I have seldom had an encounter. However, when I do I prefer to be prepared.

A good pistol shot can easily handle a snake with a solid bullet if he is close enough to present a danger. However, in the excitement, you may or may not, check the background. I have often packed in the mountains where rocky ground is the norm. Having a bullet "come back at me" from rocky ground is not my idea of fun. That coupled with a back stop not of your choosing presents a good argument for fine shot in my opinion.

Dale53

[Scrounger]

"Snake loads should work to at least 20 feet"

I have never really comprehended the purpose of 'snake loads'. In many states non-venomous snakes are protected and venomous ones are only to be killed as a matter of human safety.

A snake that is detectable and identifiable at 20 feet is not a threat. The most dangerous ones are those you don't see until after the fact. They should be close enough to take revenge on with an ordinary load.

Now I don't have any objection to killing dangerous snakes that are hanging out around the house where kids and pets play but why the fascination with hunting them down. Realistically many more people are killed every year by bees, wasps, and spiders than by snakes so why don't hunters carry fly swatters?

Last year a lady in my area stepped on a rattler in her yard one night. That caused her over two weeks in a hospital and a healthy 5 digit doctor bill. I haven't seen a snake in probably 20 years and I do think they try to avoid us as best they can. I grew up in Indiana and I saw plenty of snakes there, on land and water and I developed the proper hate for them. I'd still blast every one I saw (and I'm not going to get close enough to ask them what kind they are). Same with sharks although there are very few of them here in Nevada.

[carpetman]

I let the non poisonous go,but kill every venomous one I can. I don't care what range they are---might see it again at a closer range. Maybe wont see it at a closer range,but perhaps one of it's offsprings. So I eliminate it and it's potential to have offsprings. Who knows,it might have bitten someones cat if I had not killed it.

[versifier]

Rattlesnake is very tasty. I have had it twice and really liked it. None around here or I would enjoy it regularly.

[Scrounger]

You're going to let this thing live????

[ron brooks]

Scrounger,

That last photo is going to give me nightmares, ugghhh!!

Ron

[sundog]

I've manufacture both .44 Mag and .45 Colt ala Junior1942.

http://www.castbullet.com/reload/44shot.htm

They work fine, and inexpensive. I got some #12 from Ballistic Products, and use the extra heavy styrofoam picnic plate for wads. One of these rounds will desimate a big ole wood bee - you know, the kind that bore holes in your barn rafters and purlins. Uhh, don't shoot inside the barn - get them coming or going through a door or away from the eaves.... Be aware of what's behind your target.

I've shot a few snakes with the Speer plastic shot cups you load yourself. They work, too. But, why spend extra. The shot cups are purdy handy though.

[Slowpoke]

The only good snake is a dead snake :)

I kill every snake I see on my property, I have played the nice guy and let the Bull snakes and King snakes and Black snakes live and every time it has ended up being a mistake they are opportunist just like all wild predators they won't stick to the wild prey when the domestic prey is easy

I don't bother the harmless snakes out in the hills but all the rest are dead meat if I see them.

I had a fellow tell me once you can't kill them all, I told him maybe not but I can sure as hell try.

As far as I am concerned anyone that has an opportunity to kill a venomous snake and doesn't is an ignorant fool.

I have seen to much needless suffering by both man and beast to ever think other wise.

good luck

[DLCTEX]

I've stepped on rattlesnakes and copperheads and came close to being bitten by a cottonmouth while seining bait. They all get no mercy from me as I've seen what they do to my dogs and livestock. One rattler struck me while quail hunting, but caught the pull strap on my boot with one fang, wetting a large spot on it with venom. I thought that the other fang surely got my leg but couldn't find a mark, so checked its mouth and found that one fang was frayed and didn't penetrate my jeans. It all seemed to happen in slow motion, and is surprising how many thoughts I had before he hit my leg. I went high in the air and blew him in half before I came down. My son said that was the most blood curdling scream he ever heard, don't remember it. Non-poisonous ones get a pass from me generally, as they are good rat catchers. No harm, no foul, but if they cross the line and violate my space too much, pow!. DALE

[Charley]

Back OT, has anyone tried the CCI .45 shotshells? I've been meaning to pick some up and try them as I read favorable reviews. A little spendy to shoot many of them, but for my purposes it wouldn't be too many.

I've killed cottontails out to about 10 yards with the CCI shotloads in .45 ACP.

A year or so back, I found a set of RCBS .45 ACP shotshell dies at my gunsmith's. he bought them from a acommercial reloader who was retiring, and I got them for $25. They list close to $100 new. Didn't have a trim die, found an old Lee charging die in .45 ACP, cut it off and hardened it to make a trim die. Use .410 wads, Winchester 231, and nunmber 9 shot. A .35 caliber gas check crimped inot the case mouth closes it up. These work very well in every .45 ACP I've tried, including Para, Kimber, Sig, and some others.

[Orygun]

So I went and bought a box of the CCI .45 shotshells today, and at a buck a rd. I don't intend to throw cans into the air to shoot at them . ;)

I will try at least one to see how well they perform in the .45 and intend to use them as only a snake load. Again, my 640 w/.38 shotshells will be my primary carry when in snake country.

I'm to the belief that rattlesnakes DO NOT need to be where I am and I will make an attempt to dispatch them anytime I can. I fish on a river as well as keeping a camp where they are always prevelant, and if someone was bitten at night, there is NO safe way that I could get out in the dark to take care of the victim. And yes, I know what to do if bitten.

I always identify the snake first, and if it's a 'sharp tail', ie: bull snake or whatever, I leave them be. Rattles on the tail....well, they go into my collection box.

[NORTEXED]

Hi, New Guy here (to this forum only, that's the only thing that makes me new), but thought I'd chime in. Years ago aI read an article that revealed that the case and rim diameter on .444 Marlin is really close to .45 L.C. So, I started cutting some pickup .444s to cylinder length for shot shells in various Long Colts. They carry a big payload and can be reused indefinately. Below is a shot load on the right 7gr. Unique, over powder and over shot card wads sealed with a little black model paint, and #12 shot.

ps: center is a 2 ball load of .454 round balls which print 2-3" apart at 20 yds

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v368/NORTEXED/P1010001.jpg

[7.62Man]

Wonder if i could cook a load with enough snot to waste grouse while deer hunting? Could load .410 loads nicely in 45-70 shells.

Anyone ever try this?

[Dale53]

Revolver shot loads are notorious for their short effective range. They can be just dandy as snake protection (10-15 feet). However, they will NOT do for grouse use.

There is a solution: The TC pistol in .410 will do the job on grouse (25 yards is a good max distance). I have patterned my .410 TC pistol and it does as well at 25 yards as a "real" .410 shotgun.

Dale53

[scrapcan]

be careful in what handgun you carry while hunting big game. In my state we have certain requirements that must be met to use a handgun for big game hunting. If your side are does not meet the specs and you happen to dispatch a wounded critter or are accused of doing so could mean some serious legal consequences.

I too am in the habit of following "the only good snake is a dead snake when it comes to the poisonous varities" if they are where they can cause harm. Not too keen on any of them but if they don't bother me I will not bother them. 45acp shotshells and shovels do a marvelous job.

[Dale53]

manleyjt;
Good point about state regulations. Ohio just voted in (The Fish and Game Dept called "The Department of Natural Resources Division of Wildlife") the right to Carry A Concealed Weapon while deer hunting. However, in their "Enlightened" wisdom, it is not legal to use for killing game. That is pretty convoluted but at least it is a step in the right direction. Up until this was rectified you couldn't carry your concealed weapon. Incidentally, this only applies to those who have a CCW Permit.

Dale53

[wdm004]

Useful how-to article on building your own snake shot loads. He actually loads for 45 ACP, but you should be able to work up effective loads for your caliber of choice.

Article here:
http://www.firearmreflections.com/articles2006/hippocketsnakegun.asp

[44man]

I wonder if I could use .410 brass shells to make loads for the .45 Colt? The rims might not be thick enough and headspace would be large but with the reduced pressure, I don't think it would hurt.
Any ideas?

[Blackwater]

I think .410 shells can be fired in most .45/70's, can't they? The problem with using them in a .45/70 rifle is that the rifling spins the shot load, thus imparting a centrifugal force to the shot load, which causes it to spread very quickly, sort of like those old trumpet shaped muzzles of the old blunderbusses. Shotguns have a choke for a reason, and if you're not shooting a choked gun that stops this rotation, such as a Contender .45 Colt/.410, or one of the .357 or .44 barrels equipped with the screw in choke tubes with straight rifling to stop the spin, you're not going to do anything but cripple and/or wound 90% of what you shoot at beyond about 30 ft.

They're also about as loud as a rifle round, and that'll scare the big game you're after.

Best learn your close range POI with the rifle and solid loads, and head shoot the small game. Either that, or carry a light .22 handgun that you can shoot well.

As to snakes, I too shoot only the poisonous ones, and generally, only when close enough to homes that I fear for the people's safety. When in the swamps and fields, I'll usually let them go if they'll let me pass. One that scares me will get dispatched, but that's an emotional reaction. Thankfully, have only had two of those experiences in 50+ years of woods roaming here in rural Ga., but I learned early and well to LOOK for the critters.

I've used shot loads, and even had some 9.3x72's cut down to make a cylinder full of shot loads for an old .45 LC I once had. They were fun to play with, and a bit of an education as to what CAN be done with this type project, but I soon discovered that any time I wanted to actually USE one, the solids were in my gun and I wasn't about to stop and reload just to use the shot charges. YMMV?

[44man]

That rifle brass sound interesting too.

[Charley]

I think .410 shells can be fired in most .45/70's, can't they? The problem with using them in a .45/70 rifle is that the rifling spins the shot load,

No, the problem is the 45/70 case head and rim are far larger than the 410 bore shotshell. There is literally nothing to support the 410's rim in the chamber.
Th 410 CAN be fired in the .444 Mrlin, though. Perhaps this is what you were thinking of?

[ARKANSAS PACKRAT]

Sundog; Years ago my old gun guru loaded 45LC with tapioca (uncooked works best!!) over a card wad, held in by a cardwad for carpenter bees. No damage to the building. Powder was probably unique or BE.
Nick

[NORTEXED]

The .444 Marlins are almost identical to .45 LC in case diameter, rim diameter, and rim thickness, and work great cut down in the Colt. I think brass .410s might work too, but they are a lot more scarce than the Marlins.