Leading

[PuppetZ]

...or rather lack thereof. See, I was doing some test with my rifle, rem 700 sps 30-06 slugged@0.3085, shooting a WDWW Lee 309-180-r sized to 0.309, lubed with a home made mix of 60/40 beeswax/vaseline with a dash of engine smoke treatment and dexron transaxle oil. Typical group size for that combination is just under 2 MOA.

Now as I said, I was doing some test, mor like load up and see at what point things starts to break down, loose accuracy, bad leading that sort of things.

I had initial load of 30gn of H4895, which yielded the 1.5-2 inches groups. I worked in 1 grain increment up to 43 gn. Accuracy was still good with 2 inches group until I hit 40 gn. at 43 gn it was still holding about 3 inches. According to my reloading manual, that's well within J-words territory(max load listed is 46 gn for a 180 grainer SPBT). But the part that most surprised me was I had no leading. Not a trace of lead in that barrel. I read all kind of post on here about how you cant push a cast too hard and bla bla bla. Wanted to see for myself and couldn't reproduce it. So either leading is a myth or there is something at work I cant seem to get my mind wrapped around.

Usually, leading will start to build after how many shots? I ran 35 rounds through it tonight starting from 37 gn up to 43 gn in 5 shots groups. Barrel did not require any more cleaning than is usual after an afternoon shoot.

Does anyone can offer a logical explanation to this. I WANTED to see lead in that bore. Did not happen. How come?

Frank

[DrCaveman]

Funny. I am on a mission to see leading in my hot revolver rounds, I cannot make it happen.

Apparently some of us are blessed with perfect matches of boolit size and barrel size, without even trying. I loaded some pretty warm cast boolits in my 30-30, without gas check, and saw no leading.

From what I have been told, we are in the majority. Leading is a problem to be fixed when it is encountered, not one to proactively try and solve.

[runfiverun]

you need gas cutting or something in the bbl to get leading.
pitting,copper,roughness.
i expanded primer pockets with a 314299 boolit and 7283 powder in my 0-6, that was when i seen some leading on the leading edge of the lands in my savage.
i had to have ben skidding the boolits over the lands.
my velocities had to have been near ? fps with that combo, and the oversized boolits.
the pressure i'm guessing at close to 70k.

[geargnasher]

I see a lot of antimony wash when going off into the twilight zone above 2500 fps in .30 caliber, but that's usually it unless something is terribly wrong. Leading isn't the limiting factor for me most of the time, accuracy is.

Gear

[PuppetZ]

Well I was shooting for a load that shot good enough for big games at under 100yds. I dont expect to take a shot much further than that. I wanted to also maximize energy. 3 inch at 100yds with 43gn seems to be the right combo for the job. The way my shoulder was sore after the 35th tells me this one is going to do the job just fine. I can still say I'm a bit surprised that it these WW held up like they did. Now gotta cast some soft nose/hard cast ones and I should be set for moose come this fall :castmine:

[44man]

That is really the truth of the matter. Cast is not that big of a problem.
Most leading is a mechanical problem that causes gas cutting or some other thing.
You see, 35 shots is a start, how about never cleaning a gun for 2 years or more sound?
Only guns I fuss over are muzzle loaders because of rust. But they never lead anyway, it is the powder and moisture. Most of my revolvers never have the bore cleaned, just the pin and hole for clean STP for lube.
The wrong alloy or lube causes more grief then fit for me so I just stay away from those.

[PuppetZ]

You see, 35 shots is a start, how about never cleaning a gun for 2 years or more sound?


Sound like a good way to ruin a barrel. I make a point of always leaving the barrel squeaky clean when I put it back at the end of the day.

Dont the smokeless residue attract moisture too?

[44man]

Thanks, but no thanks. Sound like a good way to ruin a barrel. I make a point of always leaving the barrel squeaky clean when I put it back at the end of the day.

Dont the smokeless residue attract moisture too?
I have no moisture problems and the guns are stainless. Powders today are not that big a problem with rust. Neither are primers.
You are right to clean if there is moisture but my basement averages 44% all year. In the winter it can be 37%.
It was just leading I was talking about and since you are doing things right, you have no worries with it. Yes, clean if you have rust problems.
I want you to protect your guns.

[reloader28]

HA, I rarley clean my guns.
The highest I've seen the humidity here is around 55-60, but thats in a wet year and during a down poar.
Right now first thing in the morning the humidity is 29. This summer when it dries up it will drop down some more.
We dont have much rust here.

[PuppetZ]

Well, I live near the coast way up north where steel seems to rust faster than milk turn sour and I dont have a safe for my guns so they are stored in their cases. I always put a healty layer of oil on them before storing. I once forgot to bring my gun in a winter month, with freezing temp. The next morning, the whole barrel was covered with surface rust. Needless to say I wont let it happen again.

Back on the leading subject, I'm pretty sure if I shot that rifle for 2 years without cleaning it, there would be some deposit in the bore. I, like others surely, had read the hypothesis by Richard Lee that chamber pressure could be correlated with alloy hardness/compressive strenght. The hypothesis seemed to make sense so that's probably why I was quite a bit surprised that the numbers didn't add up. I mean, I was throwing lead at jacketed velocity down range without any hicup and reasonable precision. I guess that what wise men told around here is truth : hardness is not everything.

[geargnasher]

Richard Lee's formula works, but it should probably be ignored once you advance beyond the most basic experience of shooting cast in rifles. I have one gun who's bore hasn't seen more than a patch just barely dampened with Ed's Red in over two years and hundreds of rounds. No buildup there. Most of my other rifles would be the same way if I wasn't doing so many lube experiments and other things with them constantly that occasionally require a major cleaning.

If you get the load and lube right with cast boolits, you can shoot just about forever without cleaning the bore.

Gear

[runfiverun]

Richard Lee's formula works, but it should probably be ignored

If you get the load and lube right with cast boolits, you can shoot just about forever without cleaning the bore.

Gear

those right there are the truth.
a lube should be protecting the bore of your gun.
i have a 45 colt levergun that had the bbl cleaned when i bought it over 15 years ago.
it has had some serious dirt pushed out the bbl by a transmission soaked patch when it needs it but never scrubbed.
and several others that get the bolt, trigger group,chamber,and magazines scrubbed down when they need it but the bbl rarely sees anything other than dirt/dust removal.

[44man]

Be very careful with gun cases, not good storage.
I have seen many fine guns rusted into them so the gun could not be pulled out because the fibers were grown into the rust.
A gun is better off in the open air.

[Roosters]

Be very careful with gun cases, not good storage.
I have seen many fine guns rusted into them so the gun could not be pulled out because the fibers were grown into the rust.
A gun is better off in the open air.
It happened to me with a 30-06 and the rifle was cleaned before putting it in the case.