Newbie to newbie

[DrCaveman]

As much awesome information as I have gleaned from this forum, much of it is above my head and is simply lost on someone of my experience level.

I dunno where or how the 'grades' of casting proficiency are established, but I can say with certainty that there are many members on here with levels of experience exceeding beginners levels by many decades and thousands upon thousands of boolits cast and shot.

Just as ph'd professors do not teach middle schoolers, I feel that there may be a benefit to dedicating some portion of this forum to newbies sharing their most useful discoveries, for the benefit of others beginning the craft.

With all due gratitude for those experts who have used their precious time to help me along, I would rather not be a burden upon them by requesting that they restate that which they learned 20 years ago.

I learned to ride a bike about 20 years ago.

Rather, I would find it most useful for there to be a place for casting amateurs to exchange their findings, while avoiding the clogged thread listings involving expert-level research which are difficult to parse for useful newbie information.

Of course, moderation and correction by experienced members would be extremely welcome, but one should enter into this thread as one would enter a grade school classroom.

We are not morons, we are just ignorant and don't yet know where to look for the answers.

[DrCaveman]

Entry number 1: clean boolit bases are key! Wrinkles and other deficiencies are second to this. Of course I may change this attitude in 5 years, but that is something I did not know when I started, and since learning it, has helped my accuracy tremendously.

[Cadillo]

I started casting bullets by buying a mould and then asking an experienced friend to give me a call the next time he fired up his pot. I went over, he let me cast a few with his mould and then a few with my new mould, then I was hooked. The moral of this short story is that my mentor gave me the most sage bit of advice that can be given to any new caster, and that is:

"The only way you are going to learn to cast bullets is to cast bullets."

I can assure you that the more time you spend casting, smelting, etc, the more sense the detailed knowledge posted here by others will make to you. It reminds me a lot of when I began studying to learn my second language. All the studying just did not add up until I immersed myself in an environment, where I heard it spoken every day. At that point everything I read about it answered some question I had asked myself while listening to others speak it.

Fire up the pot and learn!

[Rocky Raab]

DrCaveman,

That is a most refreshing - and most damning - post.

The TRUTH (read that in giant gold letters) is that almost any leadish alloy can be used. If the bullets look good, aren't too small for the gun in question, and have a decent lube applied, they will shoot acceptably well.

"Acceptably" is what separates 99% of us from the elite. Those who gnash their teeth, kick their dog, and curse their spouse because of a single flyer on a 500-yard target are among that 1%.

You -- and the rest of us -- are not.

Do not assume that joining that 1% makes you somehow "better" or more "expert." No. It only makes you more miserable. (Witness the teeth, dog and spouse evidence...)

Cast it. Load it. Shoot it. Grin. Repeat.

Wonder of wonders: You are no longer a newbie.

[waksupi]

Doc, the stickies are the newbies best friend.

[gray wolf]

Don't get over whelmed -- you can cast nice shooting bullet without having to be an expert. You will have fun and learn as we all have, everyone at there own pace--but having fun while you do it. Get the basics down first, I understand the Lyman book is a good start. Ask questions and if you don't understand what is said--say so.
The folks here can explain at all levels. The finer points come as you go.
I have never seen a person ask a question and not get helped, this is a family here
like no other forum on the net.
You can PM me any time for a little coaching and if I can't help with a problem
I will go up the ladder for you.
Isolate your questions so you don't get answers that cover 50 things at once.
You will see there are many ways to skin this Lead Cat.
Tell us what your shooting, what you want to spend, what you would like to accomplish, how about your thoughts on equipment --current problems and frustrations. Take it slow little cricket.

[Staestc]

I second the read all the stickies advice whole heartedly!

I shot my first bullets that I cast myself just this morning :Fire:

I studied a ton on here and everywhere else I could find info, then just ordered a lee pot and mold and cast with scrap lead that I have accumulated over 30 years or so. It all just worked and I am pretty happy!

It's not that hard, but honestly, my experience here and on other forums, is that most of the time even the "PHd" level folks will go out of their way to help anybody get over those initial learning issues! :D

[DrCaveman]

Thanks for the support, everyone.

I have been quite busy casting and reloading, and shooting when I can. Just got through about 500 excellent looking tips of lyman 358429 variety, after a little treatment upon the mould. Now it seems that I need to work on my aim, since I have dinged the corner of the mould block from whacking the sprue plate open. I should also invest in a new sprue-whacker, since my current tool of choice has a plastic head on one end, and a tempered steel head on the other.

I would be lying if I said the steel head wasn't the one to smack the sprue plate a few times. I think I know now that this was a big no-no.

This is just me spilling my beans about my casting experiences since my wife does not share the same hobby/passion nor do my friends (yet...I may be developing a few converts).

I think I may get too particular in categorizing my new threads, I have started a bunch. This sub-forum seems to get the most viewing, but I don't want to add to an already huge list of threads which may quickly get pushed off page 1 before my question is even answered.

[runfiverun]

that is why there are different sections.
if you have a question about lube/lead/whatever you can go to that section and read a little bit.
then ask the question you need answered.
you might get 5 different answers because 5 different things worked for your situation because of slightly different alloys/lubes/or guns.

a new guy asking new guy questions lets us old dudes remember the basics.
i get so wrapped up in some side project [s].
that sometimes i forget about little basic things in other areas.

[462]

I learned to cast solo, though I did spend innumerable months reading the Cast Boolit Archive and the site's myriad stickies, Glen Fryxell's articles, and Lyman's Cast Bullet Handbook. Of course, I was casting and getting extremely beneficial hands-on experience, as well.

It is my belief that too many new casters are looking for instant gradification and are unwilling to do the necessary research (reading, casting, and load developement) before asking their questions. For proof, one need look no further than all the "What the best . . . " threads. I realize that there is a whole generation whose life experiences are only based upon instant gradification. I'm very willing to offer my experiences, but it still frustrates me to no end that they want someone else to do their work for them.

[DrCaveman]

I learned to cast solo, though I did spend innumerable months reading the Cast Boolit Archive and the site's myriad stickies, Glen Fryxell's articles, and Lyman's Cast Bullet Handbook. Of course, I was casting and getting extremely beneficial hands-on experience, as well.

It is my belief that too many new casters are looking for instant gradification and are unwilling to do the necessary research (reading, casting, and load developement) before asking their questions. For proof, one need look no further than all the "What the best . . . " threads. I realize that there is a whole generation whose life experiences are only based upon instant gradification. I'm very willing to offer my experiences, but it still frustrates me to no end that they want someone else to do their work for them.

I researched for a few months before deciding to enter the ranks of bullet casters. This site had a huge influence on that decision.

That said, I think that a significant amount of any learning experience comes from actually doing it, getting your hands dirty, as several posters in this thread have already stated. I think I have done that, at least so far as time has allowed since I began the hobby/craft.

My rule of thumb is: try it until it fails my expectations. Do a little research, and adjust accordingly. When things are still going wrong, dig a little deeper on a site like this one.

Lastly, start a thread on castboolits.com because I consider it my last resort for no-BS answers to real-life casting questions.

Not to cop an attitude, but I am getting sick of the comments telling me to 'look at the stickies'. I have already tried that, to the limits of my patience, but still often find myself wanting for an answer.

I will admit that the Internet age and this site have me spoiled, and when I really want an answer, I expect to find it. Perhaps old school backlog magazine article research is where I should spend more of my time, since it seems easier to parse than 75 pages of stickies.

[waksupi]

That is what they are there for. Use the resource, or not, your choice.

[Staestc]

I can't find much of anything on this site, or any of the other forums just by reading or using the forum search functions. I prefer to use google to search for specific items. It seems to do a much better job at parsing possible results, and 9 times out of ten you get links directly to here, or firingline, or firearmstalk that take you exactly to what you are looking for.

And I cannot count the times I have seen where somebody recommended the stickies and the OP was unaware of them. Recommending them is pretty knee jerk on most forums for just that reason. I'm sure nobody meant to offend. I know I did not.

[44man]

Words makes it hard sometimes.
To picture what is said can be hard.
To come and cast with me will have you making perfect boolits in 10 minutes. Same with most others here, it is the distance between us that makes it harder.
It really is easy to cast but to adjust quickly as you cast to solve a problem is what takes learning. Eventually, you will not have any problems.
If you remember the first time on a bike! What did you look at? The front wheel maybe and all it took was for someone to tell you to look where you are going.
Same in a car when the window needs wiped, you look at the window and might crash. You learn to wipe while looking through the window.

[41 mag fan]

Just because your a newb at casting does not mean you cant transgress to a higher stage of casting without being overwhelmed.

Those that have mastered the art of casting wasn't born a master, they made mistakes and learned from them just like you will have to.
One thing I've found, is I might read and not understand, but the more I cast and mistakes I do make, the knowledge from this site, seeps in and you realize you've read something about a problem you're having and how to correct or fix it.

Most casting is pure basics. You've got mold temp, pot temp and alloy being used. You read the basics, master them and baby step into the technical, if you want to take it to the next level

[canyon-ghost]

Remember the saying:

If you can't explain it in simple terms, you don't understand it.

I've been making my own ammunition since around the year 2000. You'll find you respect the guys that have actually done it rather than those that have a book on it. A lot of books are very helpful, some are technical manuals that go into way too much detail. It's good to have casters of all stages on board.

Some of the best information really comes from old-time experimenters.


Most casting is pure basics. You've got mold temp, pot temp and alloy being used. You read the basics, master them and baby step into the technical, if you want to take it to the next level

That was well said, right on target too.

[dbarnhart]

There is hope, Dr. If I, the simple grandson of an Nebraska blacksmith can learn to do it then anyone can. I came into this forum a few months ago with no knowledge of casting. Yet I just finished casting six thousand .45acp boolits for the next year's worth of shooting.

Everything I know about casting I learned here.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I can't find much of anything on this site, or any of the other forums just by reading or using the forum search functions.

How I search successfully on any forum.
Always use the "Advanced search"
choose only one section at a time.
use only one "keywork" at a time, and keep changing it,
if you don't know the best "keywork", by trying the words
that you think will work and read, read read. You will undoubtidly find
the best "keyword". If you find a technical term you don't know
like sprue or obturate, do a wide search (all sections).
Jon

[Hardcast416taylor]

Doc. I`ve been casting one thing or another for about 50 years. If anything, I am far from being a casting genius! I tend to learn from others triumphs and their failures. I also tend to be a bit intimadated by "experts" till I get back into my own comfort zone of experience and knowledge. Ask questions about what puzzles you. Cast lead with another caster to see what he is doing and ask questions. A person that is trying to help you won`t mind your thirst for knowledge.Robert

[mdi]

Mistakes, oops!, and faupax have their place in casting. Most folks learn from their mistakes and most times mistakes while casting aren't dangerous, just put 'em back in the pot and continue. As stated above "The only way to learn to cast bullets, is to cast bullets", and I don't think the average guy ever stops learning. I've been casting for about 12 years, and am an expert, on my Lyman 429421 mold, and a rookie with my Ranch Dog .44, 265 mold. Don't know diddlie about rifle bullets either. There may be a few total experts here, knowledgable about casting rifle, handgun, alloying, heat treating/hardening, etc., but I think in some ways we're all rookies. Anybody can ask a question here, and anybody can answer a question here, regardless of your experience, and you'll get honest answers (nobody looking down their nose at you 'cause you asked a basic/elementary question), at least that's my experience...

[Huntducks]

This not ment to offend anyone.

I have been casting since 1968 age 20 started with a Hensley 2c 148gr WC mold that a older gent gave me and showed me the ropes it was easy because I was a plumber and melted a lot of lead then he kept everything in the KISS relm of thinking, none of his casting was very tech. Lyman #2 and Javlina lube and I made some great accurate bullets that I shot out of my S&W K38 won a few matches at the club I belonged too.

Now a days I see newbees trying to get started with the cheapest casting & reloading sh!! on the market and asking some of the dumbest questing instead of buying a few good books and figuring it out the internet has made you lazy and dependent, and then I see guys that are not satisfied with just enjoying the hobby of casting and reloading they have gotten so tech. they have lost sight of the enjoyment of what there doing and have turned this into a job and a labor of love.

There is a ton of info on this board and others but you need to sift thru it and use the simple stuff to get started and when you put it together it will come together.

There is a happy medium out there.

Relax and smell the:coffee::Fire:

[DrCaveman]

While I am not offended, I do wish to defend myself (and other newbies) a little bit.

This current age of information accessibility is good for all of us. To state the obvious, we all have instant access to many more resources today than one had in 1968 not to mention 1925. This is not to say that all of these resources are worthwhile, but heck, that was the case when libraries and word of mouth were the only way to get info. You always have had to sift through the garbage, and nowadays there is a lot more garbage.

I am not looking for anyone to hold my hand, and I dont think any other self-respecting newbie bullet caster is looking for that, either. I enjoy casting very much, and I will continue to do it as long as I have fuel to burn and lead to melt, internet be damned. And I will learn the ropes, slowly but surely, as have generations before me.

What we have here, though, is an opportunity for us to 'stand on the shoulders of giants' and help progress the craft, rather than repeating every single little mistake and learning opportunity that our predecessors did. Hopefully we will then stumble upon new learning opportunities, and be able to share those with the rest of the family of casters, for the benefit of all.

Look, I really started this thread because I wanted to know why my lithium grease-beeswax lube was adhering so miserably to my boolits. Being that the responses consisted of 'look in the stickies' which I had already done, and have done again since then, to no avail, it seemed that maybe I was asking too 'basic' a question for those experienced members to waste their time upon.

I thought maybe another person who has been casting for 12 months or less might be a more useful resource, and we both would win from the exchange. It is nice to be able to share something useful with others, it's even nicer when they take advantage of it and are grateful.

[ku4hx]

This not ment to offend anyone.

Didn't offend me; I've been casting since about 1970 and I agree with your sentiments completely. I have only two adders:

Too many casters and loaders seem to want the smallest footprint they can muster for their gear. I understand space constraints, I used to load on a bench that was a 4' piece of 2x12. But some of the best set ups I seen had lots of room to spread out. Mine is on two benches (upstairs loading room; garage casting and gun cleaning) and both are approximately 36" deep (2 2x16s + 1 2x4) and 15' long in the garage and 8' long upstairs. Man you got to have room! And light! Lots of light!

It's far better in my opinion to buy a small amount of high quality gear along and along rather than try and create an entire set up for the least you can spend all at once. Casting (and loading) is a process; not an event. As a member of several gun forums, I often see posts asking where they can buy the cheapest pistol or rifle magazines. I don't mean to offend anybody either, but that's just silly. You spend several hundred dollars on a gun, maybe several thousand, and yet you're looking for cheap magazines? I for one want the highest quality magazines for the gun of choice even if that limits the number I have. If the gun is for "self defense" how much is your hide worth? Mine is certainly worth the marginal cost of high quality magazines. The same goes for molds and just about anything else.

You don't have to spend a fortune, but you need to buy quality, take your time, learn the craft and grow during the process. I was my own mentor in 1970 and that was the case for a good 30 years. We got the internet about ten years ago and only then did I find so rich a storehouse of information and help. I guess "pulling myself up by my own bootstraps" is the main reason I feel what I do is a craft and not just a simple hobby. I didn't have anybody to ask living in rural South Georgia during the '70s, '80s and '90s so I just did what I had to do, read everything I could get my hands on, tried to stay safe and learn from my mistakes. Not everything worked. Not everything worked for a long time. But I eventually got everything I valued to work and that was pretty much the goal all along.

[DrCaveman]

MDI

I am heading down south this coming weekend, hoping to bag a turkey. Will be in the lower rogue valley, grants pass and downstream. U know anything useful u would be willing to share? From what the ODFW says, there are plenty of toms down there to go around.

[DrCaveman]

Ok I must also add a few realizations I have come to recently, echoing the sentiments of several above:

My Lyman molds are far better pieces of machinery than my lee 2-cavity molds. I presume from this conclusion that the accurate molds, MiHec, ranch dog, etc,are even better. Since those cost 5-8 times as much as the cheap Lee's, I will have to spread out their purchase over time (read: process, not event)

scrambling together lube ingredients and pans from what I had available in my garage led to some frustration and seemingly wasted time. Following recipes has proved to help a lot, but I still need to bite the bullet and buy the right tools...meaning that my thrift-store purchases will probably not cut it for the long haul.

My initial casting setup of hot plate-cast iron sauce pan-soup ladle was nice for pouring ingots, but boolits were a bit more of a challenge. Upgrading to a bottom pour furnace, while instantly quadrupling the cost of my setup, was well worth it. Had I not started with clunky junk, I would not have appreciated this improvement.

[dbarnhart]

I thought maybe another person who has been casting for 12 months or less might be a more useful resource, and we both would win from the exchange.

Confession: I have been casting for less than 12 months but I'm not going to be much help to anybody. I just dove in. When I have had problems, I posted them here (along with photos when I could) and the more experienced folks took pity on me and patiently guided me as to what to do.

As far as lube goes, I tried Recluse's 45/45/10 and for me it works. I tried White Label's BAC and for me it works. I could not tell you WHY they work though.

The only conclusion I'm coming to is that the velocities and pressures associated with .45acp are so low that almost anything works. Which means, I guess, that my advice to a newbie would be to start with.45acp. I have also come to the conclusion that (at least for low velocities) making acceptable boolits is not rocket science. Heck, cowboys were making boolits 150 years ago over campfires on the prairie. Even my ugliest boolits have chambered, fired, and been no less accurate than the store-bought stuff.

I will however offer this: I have my own website, ShootAndReload.com and I'm in the process of writing a series of articles there as I engage in this adventure of learning to make boolits. Maybe you'll find something I've written to be helpful:

http://www.shootandreload.com/category/bullet-casting/

[ku4hx]

Ok I must also add a few realizations I have come to recently, echoing the sentiments of several above:

My Lyman molds are far better pieces of machinery than my lee 2-cavity molds. I presume from this conclusion that the accurate molds, MiHec, ranch dog, etc,are even better. Since those cost 5-8 times as much as the cheap Lee's, I will have to spread out their purchase over time (read: process, not event)

scrambling together lube ingredients and pans from what I had available in my garage led to some frustration and seemingly wasted time. Following recipes has proved to help a lot, but I still need to bite the bullet and buy the right tools...meaning that my thrift-store purchases will probably not cut it for the long haul.

My initial casting setup of hot plate-cast iron sauce pan-soup ladle was nice for pouring ingots, but boolits were a bit more of a challenge. Upgrading to a bottom pour furnace, while instantly quadrupling the cost of my setup, was well worth it. Had I not started with clunky junk, I would not have appreciated this improvement.

One final word on molds then like a good round down range ... I'm spent.

I own many molds: Lyman, RCBS, Saeco, Lee and some custom molds I forget who made. Most have the highest cavity count available. In the last five years or so, I've used mostly Lee six cavity because my casting time is "back limited". My back will allow at best two hours then I have to rest it. A good Lee mold will cast good boolits and a bad one will not. I've had one bad Lee mold and MidwayUSA made it good; Lee refused.

But the thing for me is all my gear will go to my son and daughter and frankly right now I'm satisfied with Lee. But for me, Lee molds are expendables if not consumables. I've got Lyman molds I bought in 1970 that are in pristine condition. Both them and the black and white boxes they came in along with the oily paper they were wrapped in. I don't expect Lee molds to last that long. But I do still have all their original boxes too and I have a few of their very first offerings.

[Texantothecore]

The best way to learn how to cast is to put together a basic system and then cast. If you have problems, ask on the forums and we will answer. Many of the questions asked daily have been answered before but those who hang out here are always ready to answer those questions again. This is many ways a teaching forum and questions are quite welcome.

I have not been casting long but the answers to my questions have put me on the right path many times.

[dbarnhart]

My Lyman molds are far better pieces of machinery than my lee 2-cavity molds. I presume from this conclusion that the accurate molds, MiHec, ranch dog, etc,are even better. Since those cost 5-8 times as much as the cheap Lee's, I will have to spread out their purchase over time

I bought a 2-cav Lee mold as my first mold for one reason: expend the least amount of money possible answering the question "Can I do this?". When I had answered that question to my satisfaction one of the first 'upgrade' purchases was a brass Accurate mold.

1. It held the heat better, staying at a more even temperature.

2. I can open the sprue plate with a gloved hand instead of whacking it with something.

3. Once I have everything running 'in the groove' the bullets just fall out when I open it.

4. The Lee mold needed some fiddling to get it to close properly. Not so with my Accurate mold.

A disclaimer: I am a tool junkie. Half the job is having the right tool. Operating the tool must in an of itself be a pleasure. I have little patience for tools that are finicky or require constant fiddling.

[DrCaveman]

Dbarnhart

A brass mold from Tom @ accurate seems to be the way to go, I have heard nothing but glowing feedback regarding quality of machining and the block material choice. I may soon feel the need to step up to the plate and get one.

I feel like I have used my lee & Lyman molds pretty well, with over 1000 boolits out of each, and a few thousand from my favorites.

I have been a busy bee the last few days.

I have noticed that my angle of strike when I am opening the sprue plate can bend the plate one way or the other. Glad to find this out while using a $20 lee mould. Since that discovery, I have improved my angle but also decided that whacking is not the ideal way to go. Pushing the sprue plate open with my gloved hand works, but I still usually need to tap the handle bolt to get boolits to fall. Lee-menting may solve this, I have not tried it.

I feel it was good to go through the failures, with solutions at hand though not yet understood, in order to properly digest and apply the provided solutions. Us newcomers will not fully appreciate the tips from the masters until we have encountered the same problems, but when that moment occurs, y'alls experience will save us months of tinkering.

And if everything is fair and just in this world, we can somehow return the favor through the contribution of newer technologies and discoveries. All is not still in the world of gun steel alloy, powders, and lubricants. My optimism says that the new can also teach the old.

[olafhardt]

I think this is the best site on the web plain and simple. One of the things I really like is that people tell about their mistakes and we all disect and analyze them. Molly who is a very advanced caster has a thread about the 32 s&wl as a stopper that really illustrates this. Some of us even are proud of our goof ups. Check my signature line.

[BadDaditood]

....
Look, I really started this thread because I wanted to know why my lithium grease-beeswax lube was adhering so miserably to my boolits. ....

i had the same problem with Frixell's favorite moly/graph lube. i re-read his Ingot to Target and he mentions reheating it makes it better...

so while reheating it i made a different recipe i found here, 411 Commie Pinko F** which is 4 parts beeswax, 1 part Lithium grease and 1 part ATF plus i put a spoon or two of Stearic in to make it sticky.

had a real hard time mixing the lithium lumps in the first go-round so i let it cool while stirring. still too sticky, i reheated and added a couple red crayons (hoping for more red than pink) and some candle chunks (paraffin) to stiffen. it was still a pale pink (outta red crayons) and sticky but grease had finally blended nicely.

another reheat to add more candle and viola! it's now my favorite lube and smells good too.

[Huntducks]

Dr. Cave

I have a number of lee molds they are all older 20+ years and they all work just fine my casting pot is a lee 20lb and the 2 before it were 10lb lee most lee casting stuff is solid, reloading is another story IMHO.

I'm lucky in many ways that I grew up in SoCal as I have no shortage of H&G molds heck about 50% of all used molds I looked at 10-20-30 years ago were H&G (wish I would have bought everyone of them).

I just feel that many casters and reloaders go way overboard on the specks and technical aspects, to me it's just jump in and start casting and follow some simple rules mostly safty (LIKE DON'T GET BURNT) now reloading is a different story but it's basicaly just following a recipe, if you follow any powder mfg recipe you will stay safe maybe not the most accurate ammo but safe you can work on accurate as time and learning goes on and same goes for casting.

There are no short cuts or quick answers when it comes to being safe.

[Rocky Raab]

I agree. I coined the term "axlewrappism" to describe how people get so involved in the arcane minutiae of something that they can't even move.

My favorite (stolen) mangled slogan is:

This isn't rocket surgery, for crying out side.

[Char-Gar]

Dr. Cave.. I feel sorry for the new fellow that comes here. He runs into:

1. Polar opposite advise. Which one is wrong and which one is right?
2. Folks who can't answer a simple question, but feel the need to display everything they know, or think they know, whether it is relevant to the question or not.
3. Folks who take the new fellows question and use it as a tool to advance their own pet theories and attack folks who don't agree.
4. Some folks just major on the minor as that is the way they are made.
5. For some folks, posting on the board is not an means to an end, but the end itself. Posting moves from communication to a way to express their own personal inner self.

This bullet casting, is not as arcane and mysterious, as some would make it. It really is pretty easy to get good results and enjoy shooting with cast bullets. I have been doing it for well over 50 years. I certainly don't know all the science and minutiae that some folks think is important, but I do know how to cast bullets and get them to shoot to the accuracy limit of the individual firearms.

I wish you luck and sucess in your casting and shooting and your journey through this board.

[geargnasher]

The newbie vs. seasoned caster thing tends to solve itself. I've noticed that after a while, folks familiar with what they're doing tend to ask more advanced questions and field most of the beginner's questions, while the masters who are interested more in the advanced problems tend to field the more advanced questions. There's a constant evolution of members taking on different levels of questions and challenges, as it's natural for those who've recently triumphed in understanding and solving problems on a certain level are most eager to share their solutions with those just encountering such challenges for the first time.

The questions I pass on are the ones where the OP has obviously done zero research, has no books on the subject, and wants to be spoon-fed answers to questions they don't even know how to ask properly. I'll spend days with you to solve a problem that I think I can help with, but I'm not going to do it for you.

So, DR, there really aren't any stupid questions, none of us here are through learning about even basic stuff, and I'm sorry if you have felt alienated for some reason by those with more lead under their belts than you. The only stupid question here is a LAZY question as far as I'm concerned. Something else I've noticed is that I tend to get a lot of newbie questions via PM, I assume others do to, and I don't mind that if you want to pick my little stuffy brain, but if you do, remember it's only MY experience you'll get, not the potential experience of thousands of other guys who live in different parts of the world and own different guns than me.

Gear

[HangFireW8]

I'm not sure if Doc's request is for a separate part of the forum, just for newbies, or for someone to Private Message with him for questions. Even though I've been reloading for 25 some years, I can really relate because I haven't been casting very long at all.

I almost started casting for several years I actually did, but could never figure out what was involved in the verb "to flux". I knew the noun "the flux" meant some kind of carbonecious material, but the act of fluxing was mystifying to me. I remember reading several old books, as Elmer Keith approached the subject I thought "aha I'll learn now" but he dealt with it by saying something like "flux with your favorite flux" and moved on, leaving me mystified as ever.

I forget whether it was this forum or YouTube finally answered my question, fluxing (v.) means stirring the flux (n.) into the melted mix. Immediately after that I met several old guys that could have shown me the ropes! So, it would have happened sooner or later.

HF

[geargnasher]

I'll complicate it some more, Hangfire, now that you have it figured out! :kidding:

There's "fluxing", "reducing", and "cleaning", all present-progressive forms of their respective verbs. Here's my take on it:

Fluxing means to remove impurities that are dissolved in the alloy to help it "flow" better. Calcium, iron, rust, zinc, aluminum, etc. are considered impurities that degrade the casting characteristics of a lead alloy. A good flux (noun) is sawdust or wood chips/shavings.

Reducing means to add something to the melt that will induce a reduction/oxidation reaction with the metal oxides floating on top and return them to their elemental, non-oxidized state and thus preserve them in the melt rather than them being skimmed away. A good reducing agent (noun) is woody stuff, or any sort of grease/wax/oil that can donate carbon to the reaction.

Cleaning means to physically stir, scrape, and skim the pot to remove trapped junk by physical means. My preferred tool is a stainless-steel teaspoon.

See? I'm the guy Char-Gar warned you about! But maybe you learned more about what you're doing, and that simply throwing a chunk of candle wax in the casting pot might not be doing all the things you think it is.

Gear

[DrCaveman]

Generally, I am against PMing because it denies everyone else the benefit of the discussion. The last thing I want to do here is hoard information.

The polar opposite responses in this thread are kind of interesting. It seems that I either have to pick favorites when it comes to whose word I take at face value, or I cherry pick from given advice. Either method requires some judgement on my part, unqualified as it may be.

Gear, I have indeed found answers to several of my most recent questions by searching EVEN DEEPER into the stickies. The 'tip of the day' has been a bit of a gold mine, and probably is as close to a newbie-to-newbie collection as I could ask for. Sorry if I jumped the shotgun with asking my question about bullet lube application, but rest assured that I have several books which I read constantly (smoke breaks at work have become much more fun since I started casting) and their answers are a joke compared to the multitude of experiences here. Nonetheless I am trying to more or less memorize those publications.

On to my latest discovery, a one-two punch from runfiverun and sonnypie convinced me to try dip-lubing instead of pouring pans. So far, I am super satisfied, the boolits get real clean after running through the sizer, and the whole process is less messy and complicated. Almost as easy as tumble lubing. I especially felt this way lubing simultaneously for three calibers with about 8 different boolit shapes and lube groove heights.

Oh, and dip lubing seems to offer a little more flexibility in lube ingredients, while still being 'user friendly'. Is this the experience of others?

[rintinglen]

I learned to cast by myself in the dark ages before the internet. I cast over 35 gallons of 148 grain wadcutters and was still very much a Newb. I had carefully read George Nonte's Pistols and Revolvers on casting and the other articles of the day by now revered authors Like Skelton and Keith, and some of the information was very useful. (Thanks to Nonte, I have pre-warmed my molds since forever). Yet I will swear on a stack of bibles that there are many people on this board who know far more about casting than any of the old time experts. So what?

The pursuit of trivia only matters to the people whose interest are caught by such things. The basics of bullet casting are simple, and you don't have to know every trick in the book to make good boolits. A hot pot, a hot mold, a clean melt coupled with a steady hand and a large sprue and chances are good you have the makings of fine-shooting boolits. How much further you have to delve into the topic depends on how much you are interested and how many problems you encounter.

[harvester]

The thing that helped me get going good was when I started using a hotplate to heat the mold, this makes a huge difference.

[olafhardt]

After I started reading on this sight I noticed lots of fairly knowledgable types use Lee equipment.When I read only print media I never saw a word about smelting. I have asked on this sight why the wordsmiths don't use Lee.One of them replied that they are essentially bribed. I am an old fart and I have seen somuch conflicting data that I am suspicious of good results.I think that if you get different results than I do so what? If what you want is "cut and dried" buy factory ammo.

[geargnasher]

Bwana said something once that really hits home here: "Being able to separate the wheat from the chaff has always been a valuble skill in all of life's activities".

Yes, being new makes it difficult to tell wisdom from hot air, but two things will guide you through it: Understanding the basics published in classic reference books, and your own judgement and experimentation. Ultimately, it's up to you to find your way to your particular version of success. Just remember that there are very few hard, fast, and guaranteed rules in this game, although many will try to make believe it's so. I often run a hard angle on a particular method, but it's because experience has taught me that it's the best way among many for ME. It might not be the same for someone else.

Gear

[Char-Gar]

I would agree with Gear that there are no hard and fast rules to guaranteed sucess. I do think there are principals and approaches that when followed in a linear manner will lead to sucess. One of the difficulties I see here, is the "jackrabbit" approach to cast bullet shooting. Folks hop from one point to another without following a linear path. When they find something that works, they don't know how they got there and how to replicate the path.

My cast bullet shooting and results took a "great leap forward", when I decided to be linear in my approach and do the A before I did the B and the B before the C and so forth. When I went from A to Y, things got rather confused.

So my approach to answering the questions of new folks to try to be linear. I answer the question on the plate and then let them ask the next question, and then the next and so forth. If does me no good when folks try and dump the whole alphabet on me and I suspect that many other folks are the same way. Education by chaos has never worked for me. Most folks are not going to take the time to sort through and organize the information overload.

I am a teacher by trade and inclination and good teaching enables to student to learn. This means meeting the student where they are and taking them to the next level. Far to many Professors confuse students when an information dump they can't handle. This is why I respond the way I do to questions on this board.

The very good "wheat from chaff" skills point, brought to mind a conversation I had with a friend who is President of a British University some years back. He said the purpose of a good British University education was not to teach people job skills, but to teach them how to know the different between "truth and rot". Probably the same as the wheat from chaff, but expressed from the point of a Brit. Both ways are expressing the same principal are very valid.

[Char-Gar]

After I started reading on this sight I noticed lots of fairly knowledgable types use Lee equipment.When I read only print media I never saw a word about smelting. I have asked on this sight why the wordsmiths don't use Lee.One of them replied that they are essentially bribed. I am an old fart and I have seen somuch conflicting data that I am suspicious of good results.I think that if you get different results than I do so what? If what you want is "cut and dried" buy factory ammo.

Professional gun writers tend to write very basic stuff, sort of reloading for kiddies or something like that. This is where sites like this pick up the slack.

The conflicting data can be a problem and a source of confusion for folks who don't have the context and most often we don't.

I have never paid enough attention to the equipment issue to know what kinds of equipment the "fairly knowledable" types use or don't use. Good ammo can be produced with Lee or any other make of equipment. The equipment issue is often cast in the terms of "quality". But the quality does not refer to the quality of the ammo, but the service life and trouble free aspects of the equipment.

It is human nature to want the quick and easy, the short cut and the level road to sucess. While it is human nature, it does not serve folks well in either life or cast bullet reloading. Sucess in anything never comes easy, there is always a struggle or some kind.

Best wishes

[Rocky Raab]

Here's the skinny on gun writer "bribing."

First, I'm freelance. Most but not all of what follows would apply to a staff writer.

If I have an article idea approved by an editor, but it would involve huge expenses to produce, I can contact the manufacturers and ask for supplies. They usually are very willing to supply powder, primers, bullets and other expendable supplies. That's because they know their products will be mentioned in the article. It's VERY cheap advertising.

If I need non-expendable hardware, I can also get that on a loaner basis, or at a discount. If I were comparing different bullets, I could get moulds from RCBS, Lyman, Lee or others for example. Again, it's very cheap advertising. Any loaner item worth over about $100 normally gets returned after the article is finished. Less than that and most companies won't bother with asking for it back because tracking it costs them more than the thing costs.

Now, here's an important point. NONE of those companies support writers as a quid pro quo. That means they never demand that stuff be praised as a condition of providing it. I can say that the Acme bullet shot better than the Apex brand, and Acme does not get upset. Nor - with one exception 25 years ago - have I ever been told to change a bad review of some item because the maker was a magazine advertiser.

BTW, I use a lot of LEE stuff, and I do mention it in articles. I bought every bit of it at retail.

[462]

Putting my thoughts and ideas on paper has never been easy and takes me much time to compose and edit them. I'm in awe at the wordsmith abilities of some of the Cast Boolit membership, especially those who express thoughts and ideas which are in line with mine, and this thread contains more than a few of them.

Therefore, I want to publicly thank Char-Gar and Geargnasher for their extraordinary abilities of being able to read my mind and taking part of their precious time to accurately express my thoughts and ideas.

Thank you, sirs!

[Char-Gar]

462.. Thanks for the kind words, but no mind reading involved. Long ago, I figured out that I am pretty much just like everybody else and if I think something, many others are thinking it also. I just foolishly say what is on my mind, at times when I should keep such thoughts to myself. Some things really don't need to be said, but I have a hard time wraping my mind around that concept.

[DrCaveman]

I have to agree with 462 regarding the impressive displays of communication ability. Almost everyone contributing here seems to be forthright, genuine, and biased to their own positions. This seems to be the epitome of honesty, and I appreciate this tremendously.

Although this thread has taken a bit different direction than I originally intended, I am really enjoying the reading and insights provided. I think I am learning as much about 'how to learn' here as I typically learn from casually browsing other threads and categories.

Thanks everyone.

[geargnasher]

I would agree with Gear that there are no hard and fast rules to guaranteed sucess. I do think there are principals and approaches that when followed in a linear manner will lead to sucess. One of the difficulties I see here, is the "jackrabbit" approach to cast bullet shooting. Folks hop from one point to another without following a linear path. When they find something that works, they don't know how they got there and how to replicate the path.

My cast bullet shooting and results took a "great leap forward", when I decided to be linear in my approach and do the A before I did the B and the B before the C and so forth. When I went from A to Y, things got rather confused.

So my approach to answering the questions of new folks to try to be linear. I answer the question on the plate and then let them ask the next question, and then the next and so forth. If does me no good when folks try and dump the whole alphabet on me and I suspect that many other folks are the same way. Education by chaos has never worked for me. Most folks are not going to take the time to sort through and organize the information overload.

I am a teacher by trade and inclination and good teaching enables to student to learn. This means meeting the student where they are and taking them to the next level. Far to many Professors confuse students when an information dump they can't handle. This is why I respond the way I do to questions on this board.

The very good "wheat from chaff" skills point, brought to mind a conversation I had with a friend who is President of a British University some years back. He said the purpose of a good British University education was not to teach people job skills, but to teach them how to know the different between "truth and rot". Probably the same as the wheat from chaff, but expressed from the point of a Brit. Both ways are expressing the same principal are very valid.

Good post there, Char-Gar, the world needs people like you who can "outward focus", identify what's needed, and provide only that in the particular terms the audience can best understand.

462, the difference between Char-Gar and me is that he knows how to teach, I know how to lecture. He's a better listener than I am, while my strengths lie in bringing concepts and ideas to paper. My background is mechanical engineering and then a switch to the other end that profession, repair. I break down problems, solve them, and then explain the process and results. This makes one BIG assumption: That the audience has the basic fund of knowlege needed to understand what I'm explaining. Teachers have a totally different Modus Operandi, which is to provide that fund of knowledge in the first place, and to identify and fill in the gaps that students have. Mollycoddling people isn't my thing, I'm far better at solving problems with complex machinery and processes.

So not everyone will benefit from my posts, but hopefully some will, I just throw the pertinent information out there as best I can and hope for the best. That means "here's the info dump, now gather it up, take it home, organize it in a way that makes sense to YOU, and if you get stumped on something, come back and ask specifics". Some people think it's rude to be like that because it places the responsibility of understanding and learning squarely on the shoulders of the "student", but I can't be everything to everyone and solve the problem for them, too.

Gear

[Char-Gar]

Gear...You do a great job and provide us with detail technical information and analysis second to none. The world need all kind of people to make it work. It needs the artist and the tech guy.
Everybody has a contribution to make and it is as unique as they are.

For some reason, unknown to me, people have been my stock in trade all my life. This is particularily strange as my wife tells me I have the people skills of a "nano gnat".

I have great patience with people who need and will accept help, many won't. I have zero patience with fools and bragards. Sometimes, I get mixed up on who is what. :-) BTW, you are neither. We have had our difference on this board, due to our different approaches to things, but I hold you in great respect for what you know and you willingness to share that.

[Grandpas50AE]

Char-Gar and Gear,
I cannot tell you both how grateful I am, and have been, to have both of you on this board. Your different perspectives, and approaches, to presenting information at different levels helps folks on this board at all levels. I have been casting since 1974, and cast and shot several hundred thousand cast boolits over that time, all of which performed well to the tasks at hand. However, I have learned a tremendous amount from both of you in the time I have been a member here. I learned the basics from the Lyman manuals, and by articles by Skeeter and Elmer, amongst others, but those articles were spread out over years, and therefore took much longer to progress to the next level. This site has many members, each having their own definition of success and what level at which they will be satisfied to stop experimenting and learning. As long as their purpose is fulfilled, that is what it is about. For some others of us, we want to know the whys and what makes things tick. This may be my hobby, but I am a computer software engineer, and like all engineers, want to understand the fundamental principles most folks don't care too much about.

Sorry for the long prelude, but I guess I'm trying to say that many folks here have something to offer, and that different perspective is what has allowed man to progress without having to make the same mistakes over and over (except it would seem in philosophy, where history shows we keep making the same mistakes). Anyway, thanks to both of you for your willingnes to share your knowledge, and many of us appreciate both approaches.

[paul h]

The challenge with communicating the cast bullet hobby is people have different goals, and resources. Some folks simply love to tinker and problem solve, and hence having a gun, or mold that is challenging to get decent accuracy from is a fun challenge to them. Others like to analize bullet alloy and lube and measure everything to the 10th degree. Some are short on funds but have lots of spare time so they might adopt techniques and tools that don't appeal to you. Some of us are short on spare time and want results with minimal effort.

Me, if I can't get decent results with wheelweights, LBT blue or lithi-bee then the mold or gun heads down the road. I've gotten decent results without chasing alloys, mithic lubes etc in most guns. I think keeping things simple for the new castor to get good results right off the bat is the key. If he wants to chase everything down to the nats *** and enter cast bullet bench rest competition, more power to him.

But I can boil it down to cast wheel weights with a mold hot enough to drop a frosted bullet, use a lube known to work well, size 0.001" over groove dia if your throat or cylinder allows and life should be good.

[Wayne Smith]

Couple of things about being a newbie to casting - as mentioned earlier, look to your application. Too many people try to start casting with a high compression high power cartridge like the 9mm or start with a rifle and then wonder why it's not working. Starting with lower compression cartridges (not just the 45's, the 38 Special, and in rifles, the 45-70 come to mind) make the learning process much simpler and easier to understand. It's kind'a like coming straight into an Algebra class after learning only addition and subtraction. It's not impossible to do, but, boy, do you have a lot of catching up to do!

As far as this place is concerned, I'm a refugee from Shooters.com so I date my self. These guys and others on the BPCR site there taught me basics of casting. I'm still using a Coleman stove (new one, burned my Dad's old one out) and the same pots and ladle that I started with back then. I have learned a lot, read a lot, cast a lot of boolits, shot more than a few, experienced many failures and am still struggling to have some success with more advanced stuff.

I must admit I am inordinately proud of the fact that recently Felix posted that he completely agreed with TWO Paragraphs that I had written! I am still walking on some fog from that complement - yeah, I guess I'm down from the clouds by now.

[OBIII]

Another thing to not forget, is that when you post a question, you are asking about something that you have done or you have seen. Sometimes, you will include information that you feel is needed to aid in determining the answer, while simultaneously excluding information that may be of particular help. Not on a conscious level, but things that you haven't noticed because you are not aware of their pertinence. As was said more eloquently in several posts, the only dumb question is the one that is not asked. However, if I had no clue as to how bread was made, I would not go into a cooking forum and ask, How do I make Bread?. Welcome and enjoy.