How do I get rid of fliers in my groups

[Nardoo]

I have been plagued by unexpected fliers in my groups since I began using recycled range scrap in my 45/70. I have tried different lubes, powders, primers and cases. I checked the bedding and the sights. I even changed the day I shoot but I still get fliers.

I know many of you guys use range scrap with good results and other than a few chambering issues mine seen to shoot OK.

Do you think I need a new rifle? Hope someone can help.

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p317/nardoo/100_1496Small.jpg

Nardoo

[Buckshot]

.................I think you might want to try some GC's, plus the lube looks a bit 'light'. Otherwise, they look just like what I load :-)

.................Buckshot

[Larry Gibson]

What nose punch are you using?

Larry Gibson

[leftiye]

Wheelweights for bullets?

[JeffinNZ]

Now this is a man who TRUELY needs help. :-D [smilie=1:

Very comical.

[Bass Ackward]

I have been plagued by unexpected fliers in my groups since I began using recycled range scrap in my 45/70. I have tried different lubes, powders, primers and cases. I checked the bedding and the sights. I even changed the day I shoot but I still get fliers. Nardoo


Nardy,

If it worked before, then look what was changed or what needs to be changed.

When you change mix you can get different diameters from your molds and sizers.
My guess is that the pressure / velocity you are trying to shoot is over running the hardness of your mix.

If you like to shoot whatever comes available, you are going to learn to be very flexible in your loading criteria, or you are going to learn to love GCs. :grin:

[44man]

I would get the chamber checked and would look in the back to see if there is a hole in the barrel! Otherwise, I don't see a reason for flyers.

[Onlymenotu]

:roll:Needs More POWDER ya gota bump em up to the barrel :wink:

[Andy_P]

I have some suggestions:

- you need to properly index the bullets to the cases - at least three of those are 90 or more degrees out of position.

- I don't see any crimps either - a real heavy stab crimp will make a big difference.

- finally, lube seems to be absent. Try a big dallop of Retreiver dung over the entire loaded round. Your dog might not appreciate being used as a dispenser, but at least he doesn't have the claws of a Siamese cat (don't ask how I know). Just try to distract him for a moment.

Please let us know if that helps.

[Mallard57]

Can you shoot around corners with those?

[Phil]

Nice looking unobtanium cases but they obviously need trimmed as the mouths are getting clear up into the throat. The best trimmer cutters for unobtanium are made for me by a local shop. The alloy is carbide bronze which can be somewhat hard to find depending on your location.

Also, I never liked that clear lube you seem to be using. The best lube I have found for that particular bullet and cartridge is Asian ox blood mixed half and half with Simmermacher panther urine. Mix while warm and let set for a week before use.

I also think orienting your base pour bullets would help a lot, as would a five pound weight attached to the barrel at exactly 5.00428431 mm from the rear of the back front sight screw hole (and don't ask me how I know that!).

Cheers,

Phil

[pdawg_shooter]

Try paper patching. Then even pure lead will work up to 2200fps.

[carpetman]

You dont get one hole groups with those? Where's Starmetal Joe when you need him? With chickens to eliminate flying they clip one wing---have you tried that?

[Shuz]

When I saw the heading, the first thing I thought, was ....why is he casting and shooting so close to an airport?
Seriously, I had the same problem with an occasional flyer and gave the gun to a friend who has one of those Gradient Lens borescope outfits. He said that there was a distinct problem in the throat area and a lot of erosion. Since this was a .250 Sav I had previously used in CBA competition, altering the gun was out of the question. Since the gun was a Rem 700 Classic and still had some value to someone, I sold it last week at a gun show. Result....fliers are gone!

[Char-Gar]

if they are frequent flyiers, save them up until you can get a free bullet.

[jhalcott]

You know this place is better than a therapist. Cheaper too!
would you guys mind if I use SOME of these ideas as excuses for an occassional miss? ( the errant shot NOT the young lady serving the beer!)

[Phil]

Paper patching will work too. I prefer Egyptian parchment for mine. Found several rolls of it in a cave one time, it has some funny drawings on it but they don't seem to hurt anything. Can't remember what I used to lube them with, I'll have to look. But I know it involves eye of newt and wing of bat. Will have to find my book to see what the rest of it is.

Cheers,

Phil

[twoworms]

Don't buy anymore of Hacklebacks handloads for a start. :)

Tim

P.S. I bet he never looks at this post.

[The Dust Collector]

Yesterday I replied to your post backwards gas checks.
Evidently you have a Ruger No.1. I do too. A Centennial as a matter of fact.
The mould as I said is a 457124 OS. This mould I have had since 1966. This is a mould that has been cut with a new cherry, hence the oversize. I asked for an OS from Lyman at the time, but I don't know if they offer this servise anymore.
The point that I am trying to make is this: ( No BS, My #1 can make groups of 11/4" or less. ( 100 yards. My best is a 9 shot group of .917" ) You have to have paticience and take your time and THINK !
You can be your own best friend by finding out what your rifle likes. I did not just concocked this load and settled with it as a first try. Your rifle is as different from mine, just as I am from you. What works for me may or may not work for you.
The bottom line is that the collective intelligence of this group can only point you in a peticular direction. YOU have to do the research and development.
I'd love to share with you what I have in my brain. The 45/70 was my first rifle and love.
Kennedy's demise had a great effect on my shooting. Ammunition was controlled. Reloading was not. I had no one to learn from, and not a pot to pee in, if you catch my drift.
What I learned in those earlly years have served me well. I scrounged for ideas.
No one in this group has the majic bullet.
What I do suggest is that you be patient and look into the past threads, the 45/70 isn't special. It shares many similarities to other cast boolit charitoristics of other calibers.
I'd be happy to corrispond with any one with e-mail.
I am particularily fond of paper patching groved bullets.
Anyone can give me a shout. DUST

[Four Fingers of Death]

Are they for shooting those sneaky sambar that hide behind big old gum trees?

How did your boy go with the deer he reckoned he shot?

[Nardoo]

G'day Mick,

That is right, it is the big gum trees that are the trouble. I just go straight through small trees like this snow gum. The stag that was trying to hide behind it did not know I was carring my .338. Fixed him, eh?

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p317/nardoo/DSCF0019Small.jpg

The young fellow loves to wind me up with these messages. He actually picked up two small cast antlers together at a good wallow. He was very proud of himself but I pointed out it must have been a pretty ugly deer as both antlers were from the right side!



http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p317/nardoo/100_1499Small.jpg



Nardoo

[Nardoo]

Thanks to all for the great advice. I will try everything except the nose punch. I abhor violence.

Nardoo

[JohnH]

It is obvious that your barrel is not bent properly. You can do this with one of two methods; First is to find two trees growing very closely together. Slip the barrel between them and apply pressure. You can bend barrels in any desired direction with this method. The second method, while not as precise, will be completely understood by all who observe....While at the range, with gun unloaded after firing, grasp rifle by muzzle and whack the shooting bench untill the rifle responds with proper groups. If the rifle breaks before giving accepable groups, return to maker, demand a full refund as it is obvious that their equipment is defective as it won't group and breaks when attempting to adjust it. I've done this with several scopes that wouldn't hold zero and produced those pesky fliers.

[3sixbits]

You have entered the realm of why we all follow this hobby, the little intangibles that your pictures show. At first I thought "He's pulling the trigger to hard", but on closer examination I now realize, it's wind effect groups, notice how the tips kinda point in the same direction? It's these little things like this that often spell the difference between success or failure at the range. Never the less keep up the quest, "Your getting there"!!!

[Newtire]

Great Nardoo...Just do like I have done with some boolits that just don't seem to shoot. Since I know it can't be me or my loads as I have way too much experience etc. etc., I have been shooting "one-shot" groups (versus those silly 3 & 5 shot groups you see posted all the time here). See how the size shrinks when ya try it.

[OLPDon]

Nardoo
These guy's don't want to tell you, you need to aneal your brass best I can tell. Other then that I see no reason to get fliers, you could also try a Lee crimp die. Range scraps work for me.. Keep the faith, mybe you should put those rounds on ebay bet you would get big $$$$$$ for them.

Buckshot could you make a jig for HP Nardoo's Lead?????

Don

[RayinNH]

Nardoo, who cut the mould for you? I get my share of fliers as well so I must have that mould , but can't seem to locate it at the moment. I remember others mentioning fliers too, so it must have been a group buy...Ray

[Cimarron Red]

Nardoo,

I think you're cutting the sprues too soon!

[nighthunter]

You guys all missed it !!!!! Those bullets just are not shiney enough. I think you are either going to have to tumble them in your case cleaner for a couple of hours or you are going to have to find some range scrap that has been exposed to the elements a little longer. Another thought is to lay them in your driveway and let them age awhile longer. The repeated sunshine and rain not to mention the occasional passing dog should clean that range scrap up plenty. You must keep notes of what kind of dogs are loose in your neighborhood and whether or not they are meat fed canines. Meat fed canines produce more nitrates in their urine and you will need to reduce your powder loads accordingly.
Nighthunter

[carpetman]

After reading another long thread here,I think the answer is those bullets were designed for a Freedom Arms gun and wont work in any other brand. Send some to 44 man and see if it will fix the problem he has been working on.

[44man]

OH yes, that would fix the thing right away. No wonder the gun won't shoot, my boolits don't look as good. But I have to agree that they have to have more shine.

[Baron von Trollwhack]

There's a technical plubnumium term for drooping boolitos like those. I forgot what kind of projectile disfunction it was called though. The viable solution was adding 40 milligrams of moldagra to the hot lead as least an hour before casting.

[Buckshot]

"Buckshot could you make a jig for HP Nardoo's Lead?????"

Don

................You bet, no sweat! Left handed, drunk, with my eyes closed :-)

.............Buckshot

[S.R.Custom]

You need more obturation. In the 45/70, the easiest way to get it is with a 50-50 duplex load of 700X and Bullseye. About 60 grains oughta do it.