casting for 30-30/45 colt

[brownout]

First off this forum has a ton of good information. I have a couple of questions and have done some research so hopefully they don't seem reptitive.
I am getting into casting bullets I have not started yet. I just bought a winchester 94 trapper in 30-30 and have a cimarron model p in 45 colt. I would like to cast bullets for these guns.

I think I am going to try the lyman 311041 mold for the 30-30. I plan on getting the lee sizer die and pan lubing and using a gas check. Should I get the lee sizer die in .311 or .309? Should I slug the bore? I paln to make a hunting round and have access to range lead. I may look into wheel weights. What do you think would be better for 30-30 to get the correct hardness?

For the 45 colt I was looking at the lee two cavity mold 255 grain flat nose and the lee sizer die in .452?

Right now I am working on gathering all the supplies and are hoping to get some opinions if these are the right choices. Any advice is appreciated.

Thanks, Cody

[725]

Welcome aboard! You're going to love it here. Lots of good advice abounds even when it seems to conflict at first blush.

Your choice for the .30-30 is hard to beat and I'm sure somebody will chime in on some other great mould. We'll both be right. You really should slug the bore to see which sizer die you want. It's not hard. Again, at the risk of differing opinions, I'd bet the .309 would work fine. You'll find different boolits and different hardnesses will like one or the other. Stand by for lots of experimentation. Wheel weights are very good and range lead, although an unknown composition is usually good, too. Many use 50/50% lead and wheel weight (like me) and find it suitable for general shooting & hunting. High speed stuff usually requires harder alloys.

Can't give good advise on the .45. Somebody else will. Good luck.

[Larry Gibson]

Cody

The 311041 is an the excellent choice for the 30-30. Get the .311 sizer and don't bother slugging the bore unless you just want to know. I stopped slugging M94 30-30 barrels years ago and .311 will shoot just fine in all of them. Get some Javelina lube (Midway has it) for the pan lubing. It works very well for that and is an excellent lube. I also suggest you size .454 for the Cimeron P. I size that for both of my own Cimeron .45 Colts, my M73 and M92 rifles but my Contender barrel needs .452 sized bullets to reliably chamber. I also prefer the lighter 200 gr Lee 452-200-RF but the 255 gr RF is a good one also. My 2 and 6 cavity Lee moulds drop them at .454 - .455.

The RL, if a mix of cast and jacketed cores will cast better with some tin and lead added. If your RL is such then adding 2% tin to the RL and then adding 1 lb lead for every 3 lbs of the RL=tin will give you very nice bullets at 10 - 12 BHN if AC'd. If you cast hot and WQ thhe BHN will be 21 - 24. The AC'd alloy will be excellent for the 45 Colt and the WQ'd escellent for general shooting with the 30-30. I prefer COWWs +2% tin and then add 50% lead for my 30-30 hunting 311041s. I AC them also.

Larry Gibson

[725]

RL - range lead
BHN - scale of hardness
WQ - water quenched
COWW - clip on wheel weights
AC - air cooled
More than many around here, Larry knows what he is talking about. Just thought I'd give you the key.

[ktw]

311041 is a good mold for the 30-30 but I have had better luck getting RCBS 30-180-FN to shoot well across several 30 caliber rifles.

I would start with a 311 sizer, but you will likely end of with 309 and or 310 over time. Given the price of the Lee push through sizing dies that is not a costly proposition.

10-12 BHN (Wheelweights) should work at 30-30 velocities. It not hard to oven heat treat them into the low to mid 20s if you want to try something harder.

The Lee 255gr FN is a good choice to 45 Colt, although I prefer Lyman 454190. You will want to size to throat size or a hair larger. 453 works for me. Some guns will want 454 and a few even larger. Slug your throats to determine a starting point. You can always hone out a 452 die to 453 or 454 if that becomes necessary.

-ktw

[brownout]

That was fast and a lot of good info. Thanks to everyone who replied this will give me a good starting point. Tomorrow I will see if I can get some wheel weights. Hopefully soon I will be able to experiment with casting some bullets then I will look into different loads but I will save that until later.

Thanks, Cody

[geargnasher]

Lots of good advice, you'll notice small differences in recommendations because not all of our guns have exactly the same boolit preferences and all of our experiences are slightly different.

You picked two of the best calibers for cast in my opinion, you'd have a much steeper and more frustrating learning curve if you started with a .40 S&W or .300 Winchester Magnum.

For the thutty-thutty: Three moulds that are tough to beat are the Lyman 311041 or it's copies from a custom manufacturer, the aforementioned RCBS 30-180-FN which will be a better mould than the Lyman I can guarantee, and the Lee C309-170-FN. The Winchester might like .309" boolits, but most any .30 WCF will chamber and shoot .311" even better, so based on statistics you're probably better off getting a .311" die first. You'll need to get an expander to compliment your rifle die set in order to load the cast boolits, I'd highly recommend the 31-caliber Lyman "M" expander die (NOT the 30!!!) to expand the sized case necks and bell the mouths a bit for your cast boolits. Take Larry Gibson's advice on alloys for this gun.

For the .45 Colt, do yourself a favor and buy either the RCBS "Cowboy" die set or the Hornady die set, and plan to use your case lube pad. Skip the carbide dies on this one, trust me. Either of these sets are expensive, but they will pay for themselves in case life expense because they don't overwork the brass so much. For moulds, there are more that will work great than not so great, but my favorite out of right at a dozen moulds (including several expensive custom moulds) is the Lee 452-255-RF, I have three pistols and two rifles in that caliber and they all dote on that boolit so much I bought a six-cavity version. You can shoot soft alloys plenty well at SAA pressures, just use the right powder for the job. Trail Boss is a perennial favorite for plinking, and it's impossible to double-charge with it wheras with most smokeless powder you can easily get two or three max powder charges in there, effectively making a hand grenade.

If you haven't already, go here and read the entire book From Ingot to Target, you'll know just about everything there is to know about cast boolits and revolvers, and 90% of it applies to rifles, too. Best single cast boolit resource available right now in my opinion: http://www.lasc.us/CastBulletNotes.htm

Gear

[M-Tecs]

I would go with the carbide die set for the 45. I have loaded 30,000 plus 45 colt with carbide dies. I have not had any overworking the brass issues with my carbide dies. I have both RCBS and Dillon. Some of my brass has 20 plus loadings.

[brownout]

Gear i will look into the rcbs mold. With the lyman expander die is that used after the neck expanding die and just futher flares the neck I understand why you would want it just curious if it can replace it or it or both should be used?. I still need to buy dies for 30-30 and I already have the rcbs carbide dies for my 45. Also the ingot to target looks like a good read. Thanks for the link.

-Cody

[runfiverun]

it's to open the neck just a tad,and to put a little flare on the case mouth which will start the boolit straighter and save crunched case mouths or boolit shaving.
i'll second the lee 45 colt mold i use the lyman [very similar boolit] and it is one of my favorite molds.
you'll really like it when you buy a 45 colt levergun.
for that trapper you will want the 311 sizer.
the rcbs 150 or 180 will be a good choice, my 150 pours a nose large enough to engage the rifling nicely but i can de-chamber it easily [however my body is just a titch over 310]

[famdoc2892]

it's to open the neck just a tad,and to put a little flare on the case mouth which will start the boolit straighter and save crunched case mouths or boolit shaving.

Not to hijack the thread, but is the Lyman M die caliber-specific? I want to cast for 30-30, 308 and 30-06. Hoping that doesn't mean 3 individual dies... Thanks for the encouraging words and good reads!

[Frank V]

Brownout

Welcome to the forum.[smilie=s:
I can't help much with the .30-30, but have put a lot of lead downrange from the .45 Colt.

Your thinking of using the Lee 255 FP is a good idea. I've used that same bullet for quite awhile in the .45 Colt & the FP is almost large enough to dance on. I really like that bullet. I cast it out of straight wheel weights. I size it 454 lube with SPG, & it shoots great with smokeless or Black. It's an accurate bullet & I think you will like it. The Lee moulds are easy to use once you get used to them.

I degrease any new mould with rubbing alcohol & I've found, for me, a lot of the horror stories we hear about long break in time are nullified by a good degreasing, then follow the manufacturers suggestions.

Hope this helps some & again welcome.
Frank

[runfiverun]

caliber specific means 30 caliber which they all are.
i believe lee makes one also.
i use a different method other than the m dies.
so i can't say if they are cartridge specific.

[Harter66]

For the Colts I've run a bunch of the Lee 452-255 RNFP w/ good acuracy in alloys from WW water dropped down to 1-30 tin lead . The harder boolits gave me some issues when I got to the top end. The soft boolits are where its at for about every load in mine. I also have the LEE 452-252 SWC. I think I like it even better..

[RayinNH]

Good advice so far. The only thing I would change is get the Lee six cavity mold instead of the two, not that much more expensive. It's better made and you'll need the output believe me :Fire:...Ray

[Bob Krack]

RanchDog supplies fantastic moulds for both of those calibers. My first choice for those.

Bob

[brownout]

Thanks for all of the input guys. For now i have the lyman big dipper kit with a 6 cavity mold like harter66 was saying to use would it matter if all I was using was the dipper. Just curious if it matters how long the lead sits in the mold from 1 to 6 and letting number 6 harden?

-Cody

[Lead Fred]

RanchDog supplies fantastic moulds for both of those calibers. My first choice for those.


Yuppers, I gave my Lee molds away after uses RDs molds.

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

+1 on a 6 cavity mold

i would look at the Ranch dog mold maybe in a 3x3 configuration
i got 2 6x molds now i wish all my molds were 6x molds ,

yup i even wish they made a 6x .490 round ball mold - I feed 4H muzzle loading - you have never seen round balls disappear so fast they fire 40 scored shots , with practice and sight in 60-80 each we have had as many as 14 shooters sign up
If they all showed up i could go thru 25-30 pounds of lead in a day

as for range scrap try, add a little tin

[popper]

There is a long and short base M die for 30 cal.30-30 is long and 308 is short. Get the 31 and 30 plugs to use on cast and jacketed, plugs fit both bases. I like it better than the Lee universal expander.