Marlin+Cast=Frustrated....Help!

[WaywardSon]

I've been reloading for many years & I will admit up front that is has been mostly j-word bullets for the rifles. I would like to learn about cast bullets in the Marlins...and have to say that I am finding out what a n00b I am from reading on this forum...it is a tremendous resource.

Yesterday was about the most frustrated I have ever been at the range. I had my Marlin 1894 in .44 Magnum along with about 6 different loads. All commercial cast 240 gr., mostly SWC design. Long story short, at 25 yds I was having trouble keeping them on the paper...never mind in the bullseye. Had obvious key-holing with more than one load. The gun is equipped with a Redfield peep sight & the loads were all pretty mild (1000 fps. ballpark). Groups...if you can call them that, ranged from 5" to 3 shots on the paper! This is at 25 yds from a solid rest.

After attempting to try some commercial .44 Special (Winchester Cowboy) to see if my loads were the problem...gun tried to "feed two" and locked up tight:-) Said to heck with it and went to the house. Truth be told, I didn't say heck.

Got home and finally got the gun apart...never seen one jammed that tight. It was of course filthy with lots of leading. Got it cleaned up and now want to do what I should have done to start with...slug the bore. What is the best way to go about that? I have done a search, but did not find what I am looking for. Can I take a commercial cast slug, use a lot of lube and push it through the bore? My pusher would be a solid brass ramrod that is about 3/8" in diameter using a .45 caliber jag on the end. It matches the base of the bullet pretty well and I believe it is stout enough.

I know this gun can be made to shoot cast bullets well & intend to make it happen. A little help on slugging the bore would be appreciated. Sorry for the rambling post, but I am still mad from yesterday:-)

Best...........John

[Calamity Jake]

Those store bought boolits are too small(.429) and most likley too hard and maybe a wrong lube. Try to find a flat base boolit at least .430 in dia. .431 would be better and 11-15 BHN in hardness with a soft lube. Not saying a bevel base won't work just a FB is easer.

If your Marlin is a micro groove barrel, that adds to the problem with cast and leading, it may require a .432 dia boolit.

For slugging the barrel try driving a soft 44/45 cal muzzle loader ball thru it. Protect the muzzle while driving the ball thru.

[geargnasher]

+1 to Calamaty Jake's post. There's a fix for the Marlin Jam too, you can read about it at Marlin owners forum.

Another "must read" for anyone attempting to shoot cast boolits in the MicroGroove barrels is the article by Glen Fryxell, click the "cast bullet notes from lasc.us" icon at the bottom of the forum pages and look for the article from the list of Glen's writings, it will give you a much better idea of the "issues" and how to load to suit the guns. MicroGroove isn't a handicap, in fact the bores have a better internal consistency and finish than many cut-rifled production barrels do, but they have different needs with cast.

The .44 Magnum carbines also mostly have the wrong twist for the caliber and boolts used, which causes some boolit stability issues sometimes, but usually at longer ranges than 25 yards. If it's keyholing at 25 yards, your boolits are most likely way to small.

Gear

[rhouser]

I have a very effective, very honest, very successful formula for cast bullets in MARLIN Lever Guns (I own 9 of them in 7 calibers). This worked in ALL OF THEM.

Go to Ranch Dog Outdoors Website and order the Ranch Dog Mold for your Marlin Caliber (or find out who is selling RD's for your .44 MAG.

Get the mold, the lee pass through sizer and especially in the 44 mag, get Ranch Dogs special order Lee Crimp die for the 44 MAG Marlin Rifle. (This will avoid the whole issue of the bullet being squashed by a seating pistol crimping ring.)

A side note is that I had to order a seperate sizing die for my Ruger .44 Mag Vaquero and S&W 29. The bullet sized for the Marlin will not fit into the chambers of my handguns (too fat).

IMHO: If your Marlin will not shoot the RD, you are facing a severe challange. All mine LOVE RD bullets.

Last suggestion: For the Marlin Jam, go to www.marlinowners.com and search for Marlin Jam. It will give you a BUNCH of information and a BUNCH of solutions.

Disclaimer: Beyond using ALOT of his products, I have NO connection with Ranch Dog Outdoors.

thanks and hope this is helpful rc

[popper]

The cast you have will work, just lube em with anything and pound em thru. Measure the max OD. Your hard cast CBs should be .002" larger at minimum. You can melt the lube off and relube with alox. You can get the RD bullets from Carolina bullets for $16$100 to try (.430 or ask if you need larger).

[geargnasher]

If you don't use pure lead when you slug you'll get a false reading showing the bore/groove is larger than it really is. How much larger depends on how "springy" the alloy and barrel are. Air-cooled wheel weight metal can show a groove to be as much as a thousandth larger than it really is. It's better than nothing, though!

Gear

[454PB]

For slugging any barrel, I strongly suggest you obtain a piece of 1/4" brass brazing rod. Anything weaker will eventually cause problems and/or damage the rifling.

[WaywardSon]

Thanks for all the helpful suggestions. I have downloaded the article on the Marlin Jam as well as the Fryxell book...a lot of info there. To be honest, I don't recall any jams in either the .357 or .44 magnum guns except when I was trying to shoot the shorter "Special" cartridges.

I am going to go down and put a mic to the commercial cast bullets I was using & see what is up there. As far as slugging the bore, I probably do have some round balls for muzzleloader that will work. As for the pusher...I have a 3/8" diameter brass ramrod and a .45 cal. cleaning jag that is flat on the end and a pretty close fit to .44 cal. bullets. I would think it would be plenty strong.

I have multiple molds...Lyman, Lee, Ideal, Hensley & Gibbs etc. for all three of my Marlin centerfire calibers. They are all Microgroove barrels. I have yet to measure any of the bullets out of these molds...so it is possible that I will need to sell/trade some of what I have for molds that throw a larger bullet. I do understand what I need...just don't know yet if I have it.

Again, thanks for the help & encouragement..........Best............John

Edit: Just went down and measured some of the bullets I have on hand. The Hornady lead HP I was shooting measured .429, I have some Penn bullets in both 240 and 310 grain. Both of those measure .431.......gonna load some of those up and see what a good cleaning and a slightly larger bullet do. Would just about have to be better:-)

[harvester]

I have a Marlin 1894 44 mag that shoots 240 gr lee boolits very well, it likes a lee 214 gr even better but does not like heavy 310 grain at all. It won't shoot them well for me but perhaps yours will be different. It will shoot a 265 grain OK but the heavier boolits don't seem to like Micro grooves.

[Gohon]

44 magnum rifles SAAMI Specs are .431, not the standard .429 for handguns. Your casts will need to be at least .432 with .433 being even better. The Ranch Dog molds that rc mentioned are all cut at .432 for this very reason.

[WaywardSon]

It will probably be a day or three before I am able to get some of the larger Penn bullets loaded and get to the range. A couple of thousands larger may do the trick. If not I may have to bite the bullet so to speak for a Ranch Dog mold.

Given the problems I was having with the 240 gr. bullets...I pretty much figured that the 310 gr. one I have were not going to fly. Maybe in the Super Blackhawks...

[geargnasher]

Thanks for all the helpful suggestions. I have downloaded the article on the Marlin Jam as well as the Fryxell book...a lot of info there. To be honest, I don't recall any jams in either the .357 or .44 magnum guns except when I was trying to shoot the shorter "Special" cartridges. "Marlin Jam" is a cartridge carrier positioning issue, I could see how the shorter rounds might cause two to feed and bridge the mag tube/carrier causing the lockdown. Many those tips apply to different guns from yours, so read carefully. You mentioned Glen's "book", are you talking "from ingot to target" by Fryxell/Applegate, or all of Glen's articles themselves? The one to which I was referring is under the index to all of Glen's individual short articles, not in the revolver-oriented book. I just didn't want you to miss the specific article.

I am going to go down and put a mic to the commercial cast bullets I was using & see what is up there. As far as slugging the bore, I probably do have some round balls for muzzleloader that will work. As for the pusher...I have a 3/8" diameter brass ramrod and a .45 cal. cleaning jag that is flat on the end and a pretty close fit to .44 cal. bullets. I would think it would be plenty strong.

I have multiple molds...Lyman, Lee, Ideal, Hensley & Gibbs etc. for all three of my Marlin centerfire calibers. They are all Microgroove barrels. I have yet to measure any of the bullets out of these molds...so it is possible that I will need to sell/trade some of what I have for molds that throw a larger bullet. I do understand what I need...just don't know yet if I have it.

Again, thanks for the help & encouragement..........Best............John

Edit: Just went down and measured some of the bullets I have on hand. The Hornady lead HP I was shooting measured .429, I have some Penn bullets in both 240 and 310 grain. Both of those measure .431.......gonna load some of those up and see what a good cleaning and a slightly larger bullet do. Would just about have to be better:-)

.429"? No wonder! That's too small for most revolvers, much less the rifles. You may need a specific mould for your gun, or have our resident Super Moderator Buckshot enlarge the driving bands one of the three you already have, even .431" might not be enough for your particular gun. Eric Ohlen of hollowpointmold dot com offers this service as well, you can't go wrong either way if you need a mould to cast bigger boolits. Other than that, you know what to do.

Gear

[MT Chambers]

I've shot alot of cast out of my 1894 which has Ballard cut rifling, and I'd use a softer, wider(.430") bullet and a quality lube, some of the heavier bullets may not group as tight because of the twist. None of the heavier bullets keyhole however including the 325 gr. wfn LBT bullet.

[geargnasher]

I've shot alot of cast out of my 1894 which has Ballard cut rifling, and I'd use a softer, wider(.430") bullet and a quality lube, some of the heavier bullets may not group as tight because of the twist. None of the heavier bullets keyhole however including the 325 gr. wfn LBT bullet.

Read Glen's article and you'll understand all the differences between the Ballard and MicroGroove rifling. You're experience has no bearing on the OP's gun, it's really comparing apples to oranges, and you have to measure barrel slugs from each individual gun, regardless of rifling type, to have any idea of what's going on.

Gear

[WaywardSon]

.429"? No wonder! That's too small for most revolvers, much less the rifles. You may need a specific mould for your gun, or have our resident Super Moderator Buckshot enlarge the driving bands one of the three you already have, even .431" might not be enough for your particular gun. Eric Ohlen of hollowpointmold dot com offers this service as well, you can't go wrong either way if you need a mould to cast bigger boolits. Other than that, you know what to do.

Gear

Yes...I am referring to "From Ingot to Target", as well as another article I ran across by a Rusty Marlin (Don't know about that name:-) entitled "Fixing the Dreaded Marlin Jam". Don't know that I have the skill set for that modification.

I have owned this rifle for years (ten...maybe more?), bought it used and have probably not put 50 rounds through it. I had never broken it down before yesterday when I had to clear the jam. The bore was leaded pretty badly, but the action was truly filthy. A lot of crud came out of there...but it is now clean and much smoother. I am certainly going to give it a chance to redeem itself with larger bullets before I start messing around stoning, heating and bending. I will of course provide updates, and no doubt...ask for more advice:-)

[rhouser]

After cleaning, you may not have a problem. I agree on the long fixes described in the MO site for extreme Marlin Jam. To me they fall into the No F'n Way I am going to try that group.

If you truely have a full recurring Marlin Jam (odds are you don't) then you can send it out for a very reasonable fee to one of the Marlin Expert type smiths on the site and get it resolved (plus any other custom work you want done).

The properly sized bullet for my Marlin will not even pass through the cylinder in my BH or SW much less load into the cylinder with a cartridge case. I have two different Lee Sizers for .44 One for my Marlin and one for my Pistols. Oh well.

Your 44 Mag will shoot once you get your boolit sorted out. It is also a pretty good round ball shooter. Speer .433 lead ball (commercials) are really fun from the Marlin and I have a SPEER Published round ball load for the .44 Mag.

Love my Marlin Leverguns.
rc

[straightarrow]

I also had all the same problems with cast and my Marlin 44mag leveraction that I bought new a year ago. A short answer is Lee 240grn LRN unsized(mine drop at 250grns), white label lube(dipped not tumbled), 2400 powder(not the Unique I use in the Redhawk). Thirteen grains of 2400 makes a very light recoil and accurate plinking load even the 12 year old grandkids like to shoot. Seventeen grains kicks alot more and is no more accurate. Lead used is range scrap with no worrying about hardness, etc. No leading to speak of but I usually hit all my barrels with a couple swipes of choreboy in the cleaning process. This is a simple and effective recipe for the leveraction.

[edler7]

My 1894 wouldn't shoot commercial cast worth sour owl squat. After a little research here, I got a Miha 265 grn. gas check mold in .434 diameter. Got a .433 sizer die from Buckshot and started loading with IMR 4227. I had read that it was one of the under rated powders for the .44 mag rifle, and I agree.

My barrel slugged at .43125- I don't know how accurate the mic was at the 4th and 5th decimal place, so I just figured it at .431+ and left it at that. It shoots much better with this combo- I found the groups to be better towards the top end of the charge tables. My groups now look like they were shot from a rifle rather than a shotgun.

Still experimenting...

[WaywardSon]

After cleaning, you may not have a problem. I agree on the long fixes described in the MO site for extreme Marlin Jam. To me they fall into the No F'n Way I am going to try that group.

If you truely have a full recurring Marlin Jam (odds are you don't) then you can send it out for a very reasonable fee to one of the Marlin Expert type smiths on the site and get it resolved (plus any other custom work you want done).

The properly sized bullet for my Marlin will not even pass through the cylinder in my BH or SW much less load into the cylinder with a cartridge case. I have two different Lee Sizers for .44 One for my Marlin and one for my Pistols. Oh well.

Your 44 Mag will shoot once you get your boolit sorted out. It is also a pretty good round ball shooter. Speer .433 lead ball (commercials) are really fun from the Marlin and I have a SPEER Published round ball load for the .44 Mag.

Love my Marlin Leverguns.
rc

When I had the rifle out shooting the other day I noticed that the trigger pull was pretty erratic...sometimes it would break cleanly at a reasonable weight...other times it was just gritty, rough and downright hard to pull. After a good cleaning it is now clean & crisp...breaking at just under 4 pounds. I am looking forward to trying it again...with full length cartridges & perhaps different bullets:-)

Since you mentioned it, I am going to pick up some lead round balls today. I fooled around with those years ago in a Contender & they were a hoot. Thanks for your input.

John

[WaywardSon]

I also had all the same problems with cast and my Marlin 44mag leveraction that I bought new a year ago. A short answer is Lee 240grn LRN unsized(mine drop at 250grns), white label lube(dipped not tumbled), 2400 powder(not the Unique I use in the Redhawk). Thirteen grains of 2400 makes a very light recoil and accurate plinking load even the 12 year old grandkids like to shoot. Seventeen grains kicks alot more and is no more accurate. Lead used is range scrap with no worrying about hardness, etc. No leading to speak of but I usually hit all my barrels with a couple swipes of choreboy in the cleaning process. This is a simple and effective recipe for the leveraction.

I have got to learn how to multi-quote:-)

Thanks for the suggestion Straightarrow...I may well try that if I can't get any of my current molds to work out. In checking out that mold on MidWay's site, it looks like that mold throws a .429 bullet...have you checked that?

[WaywardSon]

My 1894 wouldn't shoot commercial cast worth sour owl squat. After a little research here, I got a Miha 265 grn. gas check mold in .434 diameter. Got a .433 sizer die from Buckshot and started loading with IMR 4227. I had read that it was one of the under rated powders for the .44 mag rifle, and I agree.

My barrel slugged at .43125- I don't know how accurate the mic was at the 4th and 5th decimal place, so I just figured it at .431+ and left it at that. It shoots much better with this combo- I found the groups to be better towards the top end of the charge tables. My groups now look like they were shot from a rifle rather than a shotgun.

Still experimenting...

Sour owl squat? :-) Well...that's a new one on me. I am just starting to experiment & have a couple thousand .44 cal. bullets that I got as a "throw-in" on a Super Blackhawk I bought a while back. Should have been charged with theft on that one:-)

I know what you mean with the shotgun reference. I was getting patterns as opposed to groups with mine the other day.

John

[geargnasher]

Here's the link to all of Glen's articles. http://www.lasc.us/ArticlesFryxell.htm

The one I mentioned is the third one down in the middle column under "The guns", called "Marlin's Microgroove Barrels". Directly above that article is on on the 1894 you might want to read, too.

Gear

[WaywardSon]

Here's the link to all of Glen's articles. http://www.lasc.us/ArticlesFryxell.htm

The one I mentioned is the third one down in the middle column under "The guns", called "Marlin's Microgroove Barrels". Directly above that article is on on the 1894 you might want to read, too.

Gear

You are the man.

It took me about 5 seconds to figure out I needed to bookmark that site.

I'll probably spend way too much time reading some of those articles. Thank you.

Best.......John

[geargnasher]

You'll enjoy all of them, I just pointed out those two because they relate specifically to your problems and questions about this particular gun.

Gear

[straightarrow]

WaywardSon: I just went to the basement and measured about twenty of them. They vary widely from .432 to 435 but mostly around 433. I just poured a bunch last week because I wanted to load up some for the rifle and try them in the Redhawk that has a 7.5 inch barrel. I had been shooting tumble lube 240grn SWC in the revolver and always thought my accuracy should be better. I loaded some of the RN

[straightarrow]

WaywardSon: I am having computer problems I will try to send you a PM

[Char-Gar]

Issues with the Marlin MG 44s come up on a regular basis and lots of folks have lots of ideas on how things should be done. The Marlin comes with a 1-38 twist that was borrowed from the old 44-40 rifles can can and will give issues along with the other fun stuff that goes with MG barrels. I can only tell you what I do with mine and get first rate accuracy with cast bullets. Basically I load it like a 44-40.

1. Cast gas check bullets in the 200 - 230 grain range.
2. Size 432 (MG barrels like them big
3. Velocity about 1.2 - 1.3 K fps (I use 10 Unique).
4. I use ACWW alloy

Other folks may have sucess other ways, but this is the way I do it and it works awful darn good.

[WaywardSon]

Issues with the Marlin MG 44s come up on a regular basis and lots of folks have lots of ideas on how things should be done. The Marlin comes with a 1-38 twist that was borrowed from the old 44-40 rifles can can and will give issues along with the other fun stuff that goes with MG barrels. I can only tell you what I do with mine and get first rate accuracy with cast bullets. Basically I load it like a 44-40.

1. Cast gas check bullets in the 200 - 230 grain range.
2. Size 432 (MG barrels like them big
3. Velocity about 1.2 - 1.3 K fps (I use 10 Unique).
4. I use ACWW alloy

Other folks may have sucess other ways, but this is the way I do it and it works awful darn good.
Thanks for the info. The largest diameter stuff I have on hand is .431 and I have not tried them yet...will post results when I do.

[longbow]

I Have repeated the story of my Marlin issues so many times I will give you the short version.

I started out with a Lyman 429421 that cast at 0.429", leaded horribly and gave poor accuracy along with feeding issues due to the long nose exceeding OAL.

- I slugged the bore and found it was 0.4315", so much oversize for that 429421
- I made a mould that cast at 0.432" in RNFP with correct length nose for OAL. That helped accuracy and feeding issues and reduced leading but didn't eliminate leading.
- I read about tight spots in Marlin bores under dovetails so carefully checked and sure enough the bore had three tight spots. I decided to hand lap and took them out also working the full length of the barrel a bit.
- accuracy improved and leading disappeared even with hot loads
- I filed the cartridge stop about 0.090" to allow longer OAL ~ SWC's still hung up on the shoulder
- I filed the carrier to center the incoming round with the chamber which fixed most of the feeding issues with SWC's

In the end I did a bit of work but now have a gun that will feed and shoot SWC's (H&G #503) very well and without leading.

I now have four moulds I use for my Marlin with good success:

- Mihec H&G #503, 6 cavity aluminum PB, casts at 0.434"
- Mihec H&G #503, 2 cavity brass Cramer, PB, casts at 0.434"
- Mihec 434640 brass Cramer, PB, casts at o.433"
- Accurate #43-165B, 3 cavity brass, PB, casts at 0.433"
- I filed the carrier

I guess the moral of the story is use a fat boolit at least 0.001" over groove diameter and if that doesn't fix it, check the bore for tight spots ~ you may find them!

Oh, my gun is microgroove with 1:38" twist. So far I have not found any boolits over about 270 grs. that I have tried that will shoot accurately past about 75 yards. Up to 270 gr. work fine and accuracy holds up to 200 yards.

I like IMR4227 and use a lot of it in the .44 usually 22 to 24 grs. under PB boolits of 240 to 265 grs. with good accuracy and no leading.

I am lazy and cheap so don't like gas checks if I don't need them but Char-Gar is right, a gas check should make it easier to get good performance.

Maybe that wasn't so short!

Longbow

[Char-Gar]

I am also cheap and lazy ,but the lazy wins out over the cheap when it comes to gas checks.

When it comes to rifles, I don't even consider the use of plain base bullets. I know they can be made to shoot fine within certain velocity ranges, but to do so require more load development that I care to do. That is the lazy part.

Gas check bullets are soooooo much easier to get to shoot well in a wide range of velocities and alloys. They do add to the cost. I don't shoot in bulk like the Cowboy match shooters do, so the cost in managable. I buy them in bulk and then forget about the price. I pretend they have been given me by some long lost Uncle and therefore are cost free. That has worked so far to satisfy my cheap side. This bit of self deception gets easier as I get older, as I really do forget what I paid for them. :-)

[1Shirt]

My Marlin 44, and 444 shoot all weights well with the proper load, but the blts have got to be at minimum 431. 432 or larger is fine also if they will chamber.
1Shirt!:coffee:

[felix]

I grew up in a small town that had the saying: "Why buy a Caddy if all you will buy is regular gas." ... felix

[WaywardSon]

Well, it got better....or at least more interesting today. I had a couple of Penn bullets on hand...a 240 gr. SWC and a 310 gr. SWC SSk design. At least that is what the boxes said. The supposed 310 gr. bullet actually weighed 325 gr. Thought that was odd but used data for the 325 gr. bullet. In addition to the discrepancy in the weight, I had something I had never noticed when seating the bullets. The Lyman dies I was using to seat with were actually sizing the bullets...as I was increasing the seating depth you could see clean bright metal above the case mouth when I brought it down to check seating depth. As these were the largest diameter bullets I had (.431) I really didn't want to see them sized down. I switched to a Lee seating die and that went away.

Long story short...today's targets were vastly improved from the ones a couple of days ago with the .429 bullets. Neither the 240 or 325 gr. fed very well...had to "double-clutch" the lever...but they would feed. The gun clearly did not like the 325 gr. bullets, but they still shot better than the Hornady 240 gr. ones that were sized at .429

I have some larger diameter bullets on the way & I am pretty confident they will be an improvement. Tonight I am going to remove the Redfield peep and mount a 3X9 scope on it just to get my aging eyes out of the equation. Will go back to irons when I get it sorted out.

This was supposed to be simple:-)

[44man]

.44 Marlin---AAAAARRRRRGGGGG! :kidding:
Sold mine to be converted, best thing ever.
STUPID twist and the Ballard rifling no deeper then micro groove.
Other calibers in Marlins have been super, 30-30, 45-70.
Fit is so important for a Marlin but the .44 is so wrong to start with. Even the .444 came with a 1 in 38" twist but it was changed to a 1 in 20" because of complaints.
I got hold of Marlin and they sent me Greenhill junk to explain. I asked for a 1 in 20" to be installed and they asked if it was out of warranty.
Should not a gun have a lifetime warranty?
I love Marlins but do not miss that ***!

[WaywardSon]

I enjoy the process of load development, and understand that these rifles have "issues". If I get too frustrated, it will always shoot j-word bullets and will still be a handy piece in the field. I also have a couple of Ruger SBH in .44 mag., so any loads I make up for the Marlin also gets tried in them...it's all good:-)

I loaded up some 180 gr. full wadcutters for it last night & will try to shoot those in all three guns today if I get my chores done. They passed the plunk test in all three guns, but I would have been stunned if they fed in the Marlin....and of course they did not. Unless you count feeding two at once:-) WTH...I have owned single shots before:-)

[gumpy]

I Have repeated the story of my Marlin issues so many times I will give you the short version.

I started out with a Lyman 429421 that cast at 0.429", leaded horribly and gave poor accuracy along with feeding issues due to the long nose exceeding OAL.

- I slugged the bore and found it was 0.4315", so much oversize for that 429421
- I made a mould that cast at 0.432" in RNFP with correct length nose for OAL. That helped accuracy and feeding issues and reduced leading but didn't eliminate leading.
- I read about tight spots in Marlin bores under dovetails so carefully checked and sure enough the bore had three tight spots. I decided to hand lap and took them out also working the full length of the barrel a bit.
- accuracy improved and leading disappeared even with hot loads
- I filed the cartridge stop about 0.090" to allow longer OAL ~ SWC's still hung up on the shoulder
- I filed the carrier to center the incoming round with the chamber which fixed most of the feeding issues with SWC's

In the end I did a bit of work but now have a gun that will feed and shoot SWC's (H&G #503) very well and without leading.

I now have four moulds I use for my Marlin with good success:

- Mihec H&G #503, 6 cavity aluminum PB, casts at 0.434"
- Mihec H&G #503, 2 cavity brass Cramer, PB, casts at 0.434"
- Mihec 434640 brass Cramer, PB, casts at o.433"
- Accurate #43-165B, 3 cavity brass, PB, casts at 0.433"
- I filed the carrier

I guess the moral of the story is use a fat boolit at least 0.001" over groove diameter and if that doesn't fix it, check the bore for tight spots ~ you may find them!

Oh, my gun is microgroove with 1:38" twist. So far I have not found any boolits over about 270 grs. that I have tried that will shoot accurately past about 75 yards. Up to 270 gr. work fine and accuracy holds up to 200 yards.

I like IMR4227 and use a lot of it in the .44 usually 22 to 24 grs. under PB boolits of 240 to 265 grs. with good accuracy and no leading.

I am lazy and cheap so don't like gas checks if I don't need them but Char-Gar is right, a gas check should make it easier to get good performance.

Maybe that wasn't so short!

Longbow
I have a marlin in .44mag and i did slug the barrel and found that .4315 diameter. The solution was to order some gas checked montana bullets that were over size to that and they worked just fine. Here is where the rub comes. I was trying to find a lead bullet that would work BOTH in the marlin, and my model 29 smith, which is at .429. I DID run some of the .432 bullets in the pistol, the same ones i used in the rifle, and i got no sticking or flattened primers, but i DID get velocities that were not in tune with what i thought they should be out of the pistol. As anyone come up with an answer when you want to use the same bullet/load both in pistol and rifle? My personal bias at this point is i am not going to push the diameter of the bullet in the pistol again. Unrelated but somewhat related, i had a bunch of .454 sized 200grain swc bullets for the .45acp, i inherited these so to speak, and they seem to work okay, but i am still somewhat leary of them. I know in looking at some of my older lyman cast bullet manuals they have a suggested diameter for various calibers, and for the .45acp, suggested might be .452, or one over the nominal diameter, but it goes all the way up to .454. Question all revolves around are you going to get in trouble firing a bullet sized three or four thousand over barrel diameter?

[44man]

Rare to use the same boolit in a rifle and revolver. It can be done revolver to revolver much easier.
The difference in groove size and velocity is just too far apart.

[missionary5155]

Good morning
1st, I am happy for you you found this place. Sufferring along with mass caster generic lead is beyond torture. I am sure it has been written 22 times already but FAT is always good with lead projectiles. Measure that throat and stick as fat a boolit as your chamber will permit and any Marlin will start digesting correctly. Unless there are tight spots and interrupted rifling or a bad crown on that barrel.... those do also pop up but fortunately seldom.
Mike in Peru

[Char-Gar]

Rare to use the same boolit in a rifle and revolver. It can be done revolver to revolver much easier.
The difference in groove size and velocity is just too far apart.

I agree, but in the case of my Marlin and OM SBH one bullet does great in both. I have an old discontinued RCBS 225 GCSWC and sized .432 over 10/Unique it does splended in both the rifle and handgun. The Marlin has a MB barrel and the Ruger has .432 cylinder throats and .430 barrel groove.

While not a full snort load, it is more that sufficient for any use I have down here in Deep South Texas.

[WaywardSon]

Went out yesterday and shot 5 different cast bullet loads through the Marlin as well as one jacketed load. The only difference in the Marlin was that I mounted a 3X9 Redfield on it instead of the peep sight. I also brought two SBH and ran the same loads through them. The results were interesting. With the exception of one load, both of the iron sighted Ruger's printed better groups than the scoped Marlin. So while my eyes are no doubt part of the problem, they are certainly not the whole story.

Bullets ranged from 240 gr. commercial cast from Hornady and Penn, as well as a 325 gr. cast from Penn. Also a 180 gr. full wadcutter that I cast from a Lyman mold...and a few 240 gr. jacketed soft points that I loaded years ago.

Both of the Penn bullets measured .431....the 240 gr. shot pretty well in all three guns. The iron sighted Ruger Super Blackhawks held their own with the scoped Marlin. The 325 gr. Penn bullet shot really well in the Rugers, but would not stay on the paper with the Marlin. No real surprise there...a bullet that long and heavy is not going to be stabilized by the Marlin's 1-38" twist. Just to be sure that the Marlin would actually do OK with something, I shot several of the 240 gr. JSP's I had...they grouped into less than an inch. FWIW...all groups were at 25 yds. off of a sandbag rest over the hood of my truck.

Now for the surprise...sort of. I had some 180 gr. full wadcutters that I had cast long ago. Loaded them up over 9 gr. of 231 (if memory serves). These bullets measured .430 & I have no idea if I sized them years ago, but they did appear to have some LLA on them. At any rate, it was clear that both pistols liked them pretty well...but the Marlin loved them! Easily the best cast bullet groups I have gotten out of this rifle. New squirrel gun:-) I had suspected...or maybe hoped, that lighter bullets might work better...and they certainly did.

This tells me that there is more involved than just diameter, as these bullets are .430 diameter. The only problem is that I may not have enough adjustment in my sights as they printed about 7" below point of aim:-)

Back to the loading bench...maybe tonight. Thanks for all the comments!

Best.........John

[monge]

Tumble lubing has solved alot of my lead problems slug your barrel size 1 1/2 over and tumble lube with straight alox before and after sizeing. I clean the nose of my boolits after seating . No problems !

[Any Cal.]

I have some of the Ranch Dog bullets unsized that you can try if you want to cover shipping. PM me if you want a few.

[WaywardSon]

I have some of the Ranch Dog bullets unsized that you can try if you want to cover shipping. PM me if you want a few.

I've heard a lot of good things about the Ranch Dog line...and I appreciate your offer. PM sent:-)

[Gohon]

This tells me that there is more involved than just diameter, as these bullets are .430 diameter.

I'm thinking in a different direction.........store bought bullets hard and could not bump up for speeds being shot. Home cast wad cutters soft and bumped up to fill the bore. It's still about proper size.

[44man]

I'm thinking in a different direction.........store bought bullets hard and could not bump up for speeds being shot. Home cast wad cutters soft and bumped up to fill the bore. It's still about proper size.
Bump up is wrong and is why the RD boolits are better.
Get your head on straight. Fit first, then an alloy that does not slump or skid. Yeah it might be hard.

[lcclower]

Microgroove or Ballard?

My 1894 .44 mag had a microgroove barrel, circa 1970's, it was more a sewer-pipe than a barrel. Was egg-shaped under the roll marks, slugging .431 or thereabouts.
It would shoot .433 Keith style bullets from a Lee mold, kind of.

I had Dave Clay rebarrel it with a takeoff Marlin (Ballard).44 mag barrel that did not show the problems the MG barrel had. This barrel wants .432 bullets and puts 240 gr. RCBS cast swc's in an inch at 50 with a scope & over 13 gr of Unique.

1894's jam like mad if the loading gate screw gets loose. Loctite is your friend.

[WaywardSon]

Bump up is wrong and is why the RD boolits are better.
Get your head on straight. Fit first, then an alloy that does not slump or skid. Yeah it might be hard.

I understand fit is first...and I intend to slug the barrel as soon as I have time. RD bullets may indeed be better. I'll know soon enough as I have some on the way. It's not hard...it's interesting.

Loaded up 100 rounds with the Penn bullets today using 3 different loads. Hope to be able to shoot some tomorrow.

Head hasn't been on straight since the 8th grade picnic...'bout 1962

Best........John

[WaywardSon]

Microgroove or Ballard?

My 1894 .44 mag had a microgroove barrel, circa 1970's, it was more a sewer-pipe than a barrel. Was egg-shaped under the roll marks, slugging .431 or thereabouts.
It would shoot .433 Keith style bullets from a Lee mold, kind of.

I had Dave Clay rebarrel it with a takeoff Marlin (Ballard).44 mag barrel that did not show the problems the MG barrel had. This barrel wants .432 bullets and puts 240 gr. RCBS cast swc's in an inch at 50 with a scope & over 13 gr of Unique.

1894's jam like mad if the loading gate screw gets loose. Loctite is your friend.

Microgroove.......I'll keep that in mind about the loading gate screw. I tighten screws every time I clean this thing...may have to try some blue Loctite.

[Gohon]

Bump up is wrong and is why the RD boolits are better.

Not sure what you mean by wrong......it was a explanation of possible why his undersized home casts which were smaller than the store bought bullets shot better. Without question, depending on a soft under sized bullet to bump up and seal the bore is a poor choice. I have 4 of RD's molds and they all drop good bullets that are of the proper size but most any bullet of the proper size can be made to shoot well.

[WaywardSon]

Not sure what you mean by wrong......it was a explanation of possible why his undersized home casts which were smaller than the store bought bullets shot better. Without question, depending on a soft under sized bullet to bump up and seal the bore is a poor choice. I have 4 of RD's molds and they all drop good bullets that are of the proper size but most any bullet of the proper size can be made to shoot well.

I understood you and appreciate your constructive comments. The mailman was good to me today:-) I had four different Ranch Dog bullets and another from a Lyman mold sent to me to try. I am looking forward to giving them a shot so to speak, in both the Marlin and the Ruger Super Blackhawks.

I checked a few of the Ranch Dogs and they seemed to run .433/.434...so I suspect they will tell a lot about the Marlin. I'm a little concerned that they will not chamber in one of the Ruger's as it seems somewhat tighter than the others.

Got nothing loaded today...started out the morning with having a tooth pulled...then busy with errands and honey-do's most of the rest of the day. Going to try and get in some bench time tomorrow.

Thanks to all........John

[WaywardSon]

It has taken longer than expected to get much of anything done on the shooting end of things, but I am glad to say that progress is being made.

Thanks to the generosity of a few of the forum members, I've had the opportunity to try some different bullets in the Marlin...as well as a couple of Ruger Super Blackhawks. Those Ranch Dog molds throw some nice bullets! As far as the Marlin is concerned, it is clearly the fatter the better. These were the 265 gr. sized at .434 over 15.9 gr. of AA9

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj68/WaywardSon01/Toys/IMG_1996.jpg

My 7 1/2" Ruger SBH liked 'em too:-)

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj68/WaywardSon01/Toys/IMG_1993.jpg

My Marlin in .357 is not as picky. This is one of the first loads I have tried in it. Just a commercial cast bullet that I found in a drawer. Might have been there for a while...they were marked $3.99 per hundred:shock:

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj68/WaywardSon01/Toys/IMG_1998.jpg

So...while I'm up, might as well hi-jack my own thread:-) This group is out of a CZ-75 Compact. It would group OK, but had a heck of a time getting it to shoot to POA. Every time I would drift the rear sight a bit I would go too far. Felt like a dog chasing it's tail for a while, but finally got it pretty good.

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj68/WaywardSon01/Toys/IMG_1994.jpg

Been trying to save the brass, but still haven't decided if I am going to reload for the 9 mm.

Last one: I bought this Sig P220 a while back (LEO trade-in) and haven't found anything that it won't shoot at least decently.

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj68/WaywardSon01/Toys/IMG_1997.jpg

Hard to read in the pic, but that is a 230 gr. LRN over 4.3 gr. of Clays. All targets here were shot at my "range" set-up at 25 yds.

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj68/WaywardSon01/Toys/IMG_1987.jpg

Sorry for the long and sometimes off topic post. I appreciate the information and encouragement I've gotten here (not to mention the free bullets[smilie=1:)...I still have others to try...and loaded up 100 rounds a few days ago. When I get it figured out, I suspect there will be a Ranch Dog mold incoming.

Again...thanks to all for the help!

[phaessler]

Always good to see some positive results. :)

[FergusonTO35]

Nice!! My Marlin .357 shoots just about any cast slug well as long as you don't drive 'em too fast.