360180 three crimp groove pb group buy

[Little Doc]

i was in on this group buy. cast bullets and have tried several loads. have been using 38 cases and crimping in the third crimp groove. (the one closest to the first lube groove.) anyway seating the bullet out as far as possible and still in the crimp groove. that said, i am shooting this in a marlin 94 lever gun. i can't get a group at fifty yds and smaller than 2.5 inches. and most are 3 inches plus with a flyer or two. i have run this from 1050 fps to 1500fps and nothing will group any tighter.
has anyone with this or other bullet been able to get groups any better than this. i want to use this for lever gun silliwet. any help appreciated. loads.
thanks:drinks:
little doc:castmine:

[Buckshot]

................What accuracy has this rifle been capable of before?
What are you sizing them to?
Have you tried 357 cases?

..............Buckshot

[Little Doc]

have not checked accuracy like this before
sized to .358
no i have not rieed 357 cases as i will have to seat the boolet too far. well let me say i did try loading 357 cases and the boolet connects the rifling unless it is seated deep and and will not feed from the magz.
was hoping some one had found a load that worked and i could try it to see if it was any help here.
thanks
little doc

[Buckshot]

.............Usually having the boolit engrave, or at least be snugged up into the leade is a good accuracy enhancer. If the slug is correctly sized for the barrel and the lube and alloy is correct (and your range of velocities suggests most anything in that regard should work) then the loads should shoot much better then 2-1/2" at 50 yards.

I do not own a Marlin 1894, but those I've seen and had a chance to shoot have done very well. However it is a levergun and there is a term around that I did not coin, and that's "Levergunitis". Has to do with a 2 piece stock, a forend hanging off the barrel and abutting the frame and then a tubular magazine also contacting all three (bbl, forend, action).

Many long years ago an aquintance bought a Marlin 1894 in 357 to compete in our club's 200 meter silhuette shoot. He was an accomplished reloader and had a dickens of a time getting his carbine to shoot (using jacketed bullets). One day he slid a piece of pop can aluminum under the front band over the barrel and his groups tightened up by a remarkable amount.

All I can figure out is that it tightened things up where they may have been loose enough to disturb harmonics differently from shot to shot. You might also post this request on the Leverguns forum too.

..................Buckshot

[Little Doc]

thanks buckshot,
i have not looked today but the levergun forum has been down. i will check to see if it is back up. tride several loads and bullets today. all were $hitty except 160gr bullet with 5gr unique. but it was not any better than 12.0 little gun or 12.2 imr-4198. still looking for the right load.
thanks again
little doc

[Bret4207]

LD- Is this a brand new rifle? If so it make take some firing or lapping to get the barrel smoothed a bit. If it's used it make be fouled. I'd start with a real good cleaning and check for things like a damaged muzzle crown, loose sight, binding forearm, loose buttstock, etc. Check the mechanicals first IWO. After it's clean get a good look at the bore and see if there are any obvious bad spots. If not then try a tight fitting patch down the barrel and see if you feel any tight or loose spots. If no issues are found then I'd either put a couple hundred jacketed loads through it or known good shooting cast loads and establish an accuracy standard. Without that you may just have a dog and not know it. It happens. But with Marlin it's usually not a dog. Is it Ballard rifling or Micro-groove? If it's MG try unsized boolits in Lee Liquid Alox, (Frog Snot), with your former loads. Also read up in the leverguns section here on Micro Groove's, there's lots of info there.

[Little Doc]

howdy trpr bert.
the gun was used in cas for three years. probably has had 15-20 thousand rounds thru it. ballard riflings, has been cleaned. steel wool on a brush and really cleaned. nothing can be seen in the bbl. stocks are tight. lapped crown with brass and 220 grit compound. have sized boolets .360 and .358 both shoot the same. tried the cowboy loads and they were awful. until now have not put this gun on paper except when new. at that time it would do one ragged hole at 25 yds. have not tried a group at 25 recently. the gun has been in retirement for nearly two years. pulled it out wanted to shoot lever gun silloute (spl) bought the mould on the group buy as i thought it would be good. may be but not in this gun.
i have shot some 160 gr bullets that seem to group better. maybe 2" at 50 yds.
may just be a dog, but when i was shooting it in cas it served me well and shot some 200 yd tgts with it and did pretty good. don't get me wrong the targets were pretty large and 200 yds is pretty good distance for a 38 spec with a 120 gr boolet. really frustrated, tried several different loads today. used both 38 and 357 cases. tried faster powder. that leaded the bbl. had to scrub it again. i'm pretty sure it is not the nut behind the stock but it could be. nothing else seems to work.
thanks for your input.
little doc

[jeff223]

Little Doc what group buy mold did you get?was it one from my group buy,.360-.360-180 plain base?ive had no bad reports about that boolit at all.

ive been haveing very good accuracy with that boolit out of a 357 rossi lever gun and the boolits are shooting very good from my 357max Contender but i had to change powders to make the boolits shoot good from my 357max .

how are you sizing the boolits to fit the throat and bore?it sounds like there are sizing problems.you should be getting well under an inch at 50yds

[Little Doc]

howdy jeff,
yes it was your gb. i am sizing with a star sizer luber. have two dies one .358 and the other .360 both shoot the same. best groups are with lil gun and imr-4198 everything else is crap. but the best i can get is 2" at 50 yds. i had high hopes of
1". this is a 357 mag. and i have loaded with the boolet crimped in the third crimp groove in 38 cases and in the top crimp groove in mag cases. belive it or not the 38 cases are doing a little better than the 357's..
what powder and load do you get the best performance from? i would like to try what is working for someone else.
thanks
little doc

[jeff223]

Doc i went to 1680 powder when i shoot this boolit from my 357max Contender and im just using start loads

for the Rossie 13.5 gr of Lil'Gun works good.i had a pound of this powder so i decided to try it.i dont have a lube sizer so ive been sizing with a push through sizer that i got from Buckshot and i lube with 2 heavy coats of Lee alox.once i seat the boolits in the case i take a rag and wipe the alox off the boolits.the ammo feeds like factory ammo.i have the boolits sized at .3595 and they are held in by a heavy crimp.when i pull the lever to shut the action it is alittle harder to close than when using factory ammo.the boolits have a very tight fit in the throat and the boolit just kisses the lands when the action is shut.

this Rossi rifle belongs to a good friend of mine but he let me take it to monkey around with.he was looking into shooting cast boolits from this gun so this worked out good for him.i think i will end up selling him my mold and i will just end up shooting gas checked cast boolits and jacketed boolits from my 357max Contender

you might try shooting your boolits alittle fatter.maybe your boolits arnt filling the throat like they should.you want a tight fit with the boolit supported,if your boolits are undersized for the throat and are not supported accuracy will suffer

do you have a scope on your rifle?if not maybe you should scope your rifle for load development.if you want to shoot with open sights the scope can come back off once you find what your looking for