Questions on 311466 Lyman mold

[milprileb]

First off: I own but one rifle mold, the 311466 Lyman Loverin design. I am just starting rifle casting. I ran a 10# Saeco pot of 50 50 Lino to Wheel Wt mixed with 6% bar solder (50 50 bar solder) and then ran another 10# of 80% WW to 20 % lino and 6% bar solder. Solder was to ensure mold fill out and probably over kill.

The 50 50 lino WW runs right at 155 grains in weight plus or minus .5 grains max, The 80% 20% lino Ww runs right at 156 plus or minus .5 grains max.

I was very anal about manner of pour from my bottom pot Saeco furnace and when I moved the sprue plate (color of grey of sprue) so I had some very consistent bullet results. .5 grain variance is the max but usually its .2 grains on average.

Now my concerns. I am gas checking these bullets and lubing all the grooves , I have noted the Lyman book does not push these over 2000 FPS. Lyman uses shotgun and pistol powders.

Concern 1: I want to shoot these out to 300 yds, so can I not use IMR4895 and try to keep them about 2450 FPS ?

Concern 2: Do I fixate on the OAL Lyman lists or do I seat till base of bullet is
inside the entire lenght of the case neck ?

Concern 3: Is it in my best interest to lube all lube grooves as I currently do ?

Concern 4: This is a bolt action bullet design, So do I need to find a better solution for the M1 Garand. What bullet would that be?

Concern 5: Bullets (either alloy above) drop .3115. I miked over a hundred of both alloy batches and they are consistent in size. I don't think I need to size for 303 British, just run these bullet through a .312 sizing die in my Saeco luber and apply lube.... your thoughts ??

My objective is to shoot at 200 and 300 yds. I don't need powder puff plinking loads. I don't want leading and I want accuracy. Your thoughts on above and powder recommendations very much needed. I have set aside a M39 Finn, M1 Garand and a No.4 Enfield solely to shoot cast 30 cal. bullets properly sized. I have Saeco .308,309, 311, 312 and 312 sizing dies and Saeco luber sizer.

Thanks in advance

[MtGun44]

Use the OAL that is dictated by your rifle's throat. Make sure you don't
A: jam the boolit back into the case by hitting the throat when seated too long
B: stick the boolit into the rifling hard enough that extracted an unfired round
leaves the boolit in the throat and spills the powder all over the action.

You only need to lube about half of the grooves, leaving the ones outside the
case empty seems to work fine. If the exposed ones are lubed, they can be
messy and hold grit, not a good thing.

I can't advise on the higher velocities, I mostly stop at 1800 fps or so, haven't really
wanted hotter loads with boolits.

As to diameter, my best results in rifles have been at .002 or .003 bigger than groove
diam, so I think these will be too small for many/most .303 Brit barrels, but fine for most
.308 ish US .30 cal barrels.

Bill

[milprileb]

I am prepared to buy 303 mold as I thought the same as you... .311 is a bit shy for 303!
My tests will be with a 03 rifle so at least I can find what works well for 3006.

[runfiverun]

it may work in your 03, my 1917 won't chamber it.
i pour the 311 with 4/6/90 alloy for my 7.7 and size to .313
try 18 grs of 2400 with a lr primer

[MT Gianni]

I lube 3-4 grooves with that boolit. Check out how many other bullets the LY manual pushes over 2000 fps. It will be a short read. I have pushed it to 2400 fps in the 06 with good accuracy.

[rintinglen]

I have had pretty good results with that boolit in the 30-30, the 30-40, and in the 30-06. In fact, I bought a 4 cavity from NOE to speed production. I use it in the 30-30 for silhouette shooting of chickens, pigs and turkeys, but it doesn't quite have enough stuff to knock down the rams.

In the 30-06, 15.0 grains of Unique and 20 grains of 2400 were the most accurate loads I tried. But for higher velocity, WW-748 worked very well in my old sporterized Springfield. I got the load out of the Lyman 3rd Edition Cast Bullet Handbook for the 311-291, started at the bottom and ran up to about 2250 fps, by guesstimate. (Didn't have a Chronograph in those days.)

[Larry Gibson]

milprileb

First off: I own but one rifle mold, the 311466 Lyman Loverin design. Excellent bullet, I own 2 311466 moulds, a 2 cavity and a 4 cavity. I am just starting rifle casting. I ran a 10# Saeco pot of 50 50 Lino to Wheel Wt mixed with 6% bar solder (50 50 bar solder) and then ran another 10# of 80% WW to 20 % lino and 6% bar solder. Solder was to ensure mold fill out and probably over kill. the solder is indeed, "overkill", I'd not use it with the next batch.

The 50 50 lino WW runs right at 155 grains in weight plus or minus .5 grains max, The 80% 20% lino Ww runs right at 156 plus or minus .5 grains max. That's very good and what I get with those alloys also, particularly the 80/20 alloy.

I was very anal about manner of pour from my bottom pot Saeco furnace and when I moved the sprue plate (color of grey of sprue) so I had some very consistent bullet results. .5 grain variance is the max but usually its .2 grains on average. nothing "anal" there, that's the way to cast excellent and consitent bullets:D

Now my concerns. I am gas checking these bullets and lubing all the grooves , I have noted the Lyman book does not push these over 2000 FPS. Lyman uses shotgun and pistol powders. If loading in short necked cases like the .308W I do not lube the 1st two grooves. In the '06 I do not lube the 1st groove. I use a soft lube, Javelina or 2500+ for best results.

Concern 1: I want to shoot these out to 300 yds, so can I not use IMR4895 and try to keep them about 2450 FPS ? You could do that but accuracy with the 10" twists of the rifles mentioned will probably not be there. With those rifles best accuracy will come in the 1850 - 1950 fps range but with the 311466 you may be able to push that to 2000 - 2100 fps in the bolt guns for practical accuracy.

In the M1 you will want just enough velocity to ensure functioning. I prefer a heavier bullet in the M1 as functioning may not be reliable until the velocity is too high for best accuracy with lighter weight bullets.I

Concern 2: Do I fixate on the OAL Lyman lists or do I seat till base of bullet is
inside the entire lenght of the case neck ? Seat the 311466s with the GC, or at least the top of the GC, still inside the neck. I pay no attention to published oal's and let the case neck. throat and mag length tell me what the aol will be. With that lighter weight bullet 4895 may work well with a 3/4 gr dacron filler but, in the bolt guns, I would go with 4759 with the dacron filler and look for best accuracy in the 1850 - 1950 fps range, 2400 would be my second choice, also with the dacron filler.

Concern 3: Is it in my best interest to lube all lube grooves as I currently do ?

With a soft lube lube as mentioned. With a hard lube you might get batter results with only 3 grooves lubed.

Concern 4: This is a bolt action bullet design, So do I need to find a better solution for the M1 Garand. What bullet would that be?

A 311299 or 314299 (if the throat is worn) will be the best solution. Enough bullet weight to allow use of 4895 or 4831 to get reliable functioning while keeping the velocity in the 1850 - 1950 fps range for best accuracy.

Concern 5: Bullets (either alloy above) drop .3115. I miked over a hundred of both alloy batches and they are consistent in size. I don't think I need to size for 303 British, just run these bullet through a .312 sizing die in my Saeco luber and apply lube.... your thoughts ??

Depends on the bore sizes of the Brit. If it is a "tight" .303 you might just do fine with that bullet at "as cast".

My objective is to shoot at 200 and 300 yds. I don't need powder puff plinking loads. I don't want leading and I want accuracy. Your thoughts on above and powder recommendations very much needed. I have set aside a M39 Finn, M1 Garand and a No.4 Enfield solely to shoot cast 30 cal. bullets properly sized. I have Saeco .308,309, 311, 312 and 312 sizing dies and Saeco luber sizer.

If you get a 314299 it probaly will do better in the .303 also. When you get a little more experience with that 311466 in your rifles you can try slower powders to push the velocity up a little if you want to. However, at 1850 - 1950 fps 300 yards is entirely "doable"

Larry Gibson

Thanks in advance[/QUOTE]

[Kraschenbirn]

Sounds like you've got your act pretty much together. Like Larry, I can't really recommend the 311466 in the Garand but it's done good for me in just about all of my .30 cal bolt guns...'specially in my old Savage 340 (.30-30 WCF) where it's my 'go-to' boolit for punchin' paper and ringin' steel. From my 'basic' rifle alloy (4 parts Lyman #2/1 part Lino - water-quenched), my 'vintage' Ideal SC mould drops 162 gr. and, loaded over 20 grains of AA5744, launches at 1860 fps. Haven't shot it much at 300M but, at 200M, groups average 3"-3 1/2"...a heckuva lot better than any factory load I've ever tried.

Should also be a good boolit for that Finn M39, too...depending, of course, on your groove dia. A shooting buddy recently picked up a pretty decent M39 ('43 SAKO) with a very clean bore that slugged at .3095. Lee 160-grainers (sized .311), loaded over 17.5 gr 2400, produced 2"-3" 100M groups his first time out.

Bill

[milprileb]

I delayed casting rifle boolits for over 30 yrs. Finally I decided it had to be done
and I got a Saeco Luber dedicated solely to rifle lube and sizing, read for months about
things on this board and then cast my first 2 batches. I can drop great bullets for pistol at record speed using Lee 6 cav. molds and have a mountain of bullets in a long day of casting. My pistol bullets are very accurate out to 50 yds and exceed my expectations.

For volume, I get great results with cast bullets for pistol but for rifle, I deliberately told myself that quantity did not matter. I go to great pains to shoot rifles accurately and work hard for every shot. I took a step back and deliberately made each pour count, do every function the same and hold myself discipline wise to consistency in all that I did. I spent 4 hours and must have 200 rifle bullets with few needing culling out. I average 40 aimed shots
in a 6 hour window when I hit the range and shoot rifle so the effort of 4 hours of "Love" will yield 8 days of serious range time and satisfaction.

Distance is unforgiving of quality control errors on bullets and I want to shoot distance. I chose (new guy that I am to rifle casting) to go sure and steady, slow and careful. I will post my results shortly.

Thanks to all who commented in this thread. There is a science to making cast boolits. There is a art form in making rifle cast bullets.