diameter dilema (or sizing problem)

[happyhunter]

I just recently got started in casting. I have a used 2 cavity 358477 that I have been trying to get to work. I am using wheel weights. Some air cooled some dropped in water. The bullets all measure .362" out of the mold. They are round (same dimension in line with and across the knit line).

When I run them through my .358 sizer they come out in the range of .359 to .362. Most of them are in the .361 to .362 range, only one in the .359 range. I have not loaded or shot any of them yet. I don't know what would happen with them being so oversize. Why are they so big out of the mold? Why does the sizer not bring them down to .358?

Thanks,
HH

[Ola]

1. Is the sizer actually doing something to the bullets? Sounds like it is NOT .358 but bigger.

2. Are you measuring correctly?

[beagle]

Check to see if it is a current production sizer die with the beveled entrance. I'm assuming Lyman sizer here. The old style with a taper tends to do strange things during sizing.

Measure actual diameter with a mike and not a caliper.

Check pins in mould block to see if they are out too far and are throwing OS bullets.

Many on here would love to have that delima of OS bullets./beagle

[leadman]

You can check the inside dimension of the sizer die by removing it from the luber/sizer and pushing the center pin down. I have honed out many sizer dies to a larger size so this could be what you have. If it is a new die and oversized it should be replaced by the manufacturer.

The old 32 S&W and 32 S&W Long took a larger boolit. My 32 S&W likes a .314" boolit.

If you mix some pure or soft lead with your WW it will drop a slightly smaller boolit.

There is some springback of the lead when it is sized. How much depends mainly on the alloy.

[williamwaco]

Sizing dies are never the size stamped on the die.

I have never seen one off by that much.

I suggest:

1) How are you measuring them. Caliper or Micrometer?
Most .358 dies ( in my experience ) will produce bullets at .3585 to .3587
A caliper cannot relibably tell the difference between that and .359
Even a cheap caliper is not going to be off .004
If you suspect your caliper. Measure some commercial rifle bullets.
They will usually be accurate to a couple of tenths.

2) Load a dozen of your bullets and try them out.
If they will chamber they will not cause any problems.
Do not load 50 and then find out you can't get them into the cylinder.

3) If a significant number of them cannot be chambered, You need a new die.

4) You can lap a die to make it larger but I don't know anyone who knows how to go the other way.

[happyhunter]

I am using a Mitutoyo digital micrometer (borrowed from work) to measure the boolit diameter. It measures to .00005 inch. Was calibrated a few weeks ago.

I checked the inside diameter of my sizing die. I am lacking proper equipment for this. I have a Craftsman verier calipers (rough of the eyes). I measure the ID to be .356 to .357 inch. Measured a couple times inside each end of the die. I did measure a couple Hornady 30 cal bullets, they were .308 inch. So, it looks like the calipers are pretty good although the bullets are measureing OD not ID, could be different.

I am not sure if the sizer is an older or newer one. The die and mold were both used off fleabay.

Thanks,
HH

[geargnasher]

Measure the inside jaws of the calipers with your mic after taking the die inside measurement, preferably at the bottom end of the sizer die, not the top.

Something doesn't add up. I think you're not pushing the boolits deep enough in the die or something, maybe the previous owner honed it a bit like many of us do to get the size they wanted.

Boolits do spring back somewhat, but usually not more than a thousandth if being sized three or four thousandths.

If you're not happy with that mould, I'll bet you could get a good price for it in about five minutes if you listed it in our classified section, or get an even-trade offer for one that casts smaller. Having one that casts that large with ww alloy is quite rare these days.

Gear

[williamwaco]

I am using a Mitutoyo digital micrometer (borrowed from work) to measure the boolit diameter. It measures to .00005 inch. Was calibrated a few weeks ago.

I checked the inside diameter of my sizing die. I am lacking proper equipment for this. I have a Craftsman verier calipers (rough of the eyes). I measure the ID to be .356 to .357 inch. Measured a couple times inside each end of the die. I did measure a couple Hornady 30 cal bullets, they were .308 inch. So, it looks like the calipers are pretty good although the bullets are measureing OD not ID, could be different.

I am not sure if the sizer is an older or newer one. The die and mold were both used off fleabay.

Thanks,
HH


WOW. I am impressed. That is good stuff and you knew enough to know that you can't get a good inside measurement with a caliper but it would not be off more than .001 at that diameter. There is a thread in here about that measurement, it includes a link to a web site with a calculator to make the correction from the caliper reading to actual inside diameter.

I think you are casting bullets from some type of silver colored rubber.

I certainly don't have an answer but if you ever figure out how those bullets are coming out of a .357 diameter sizer at .362, I sure would like to hear the story.

See this thread:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/archive/index.php/t-129459.html


and this site:

http://www.1728.org/circsect.htm

Happy hunting.



The older dies cut the bullet down to size with a sharp shoulder about a half inch inside the mouth of the die.
The new dies swage the bullet to size with no shoulder just a gentle taper.

If you remove the center punch ( I no longer remember if that is the H or the I part ) You will be able to feel the sharp edge if it is present.
If the die is large enough, say .452, you can insert your little finger and learn that it is sharp enough to cut your little finger. ( Don't ask me how I know. )

There may be other differences that are easier to spot but I am not aware of them.


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[HeavyMetal]

Only two things can be off here: the die or the vernier!

Since I have personelly worn out two lyman sizer dies,both
went from 451 to 454, I think you should consider a new replacement die.

I did notice you'd mentioned borrowing the vernier from work.

Think I'd take the sizing die you have and get someone at work to use pin gauges to see what the hole really measures!

A lot of older lyman molds were oversized, 362 is not out of line for a 50's mold.
(
I would shine the harsh light of day on it to make sure no burrs or dirt was on the mold face.

[happyhunter]

Bingo!!!! geargnasher nailed it....

"Something doesn't add up. I think you're not pushing the boolits deep enough in the die....."

That stared me thinking. When I did these 358477s it was the first time I played with my Lyman 450 (used ebay purchase). I was not using any lube. A few days later I ran thru about 80 of 452460s I had cast. I put lube in it and had to set it to go deeper to get lube in the grooves.

I just now pulled the 452 sizer out and put in the 358 and ran some 358477s in deep like when I sized and lubed the 452s. They look much better now. They measured in the .362 range before sizing and measured about .3597 after sizing. They were all under .360. That makes sense. I can picture that much spring back.

These 358477s were cast a bit bigger on the front driving band than the rear/base band. I don't know why. Guess it does not matter as they do come down to the same .359ish size.

WOW it does take a bit of force to get the bullet out of the die. It rocks the front of my workbench up when I raise the lever. I guess I can use these boolits. I still may look into a different mold later on. Hopefully one that is easier to size.

Thanks for all the help,
HH

[happyhunter]

I loaded some of the .3595 inch boolits in 357 mag cases over 5.5 gr Unique. Kinda like a warm 38 load. Accuracy was somewhat bad. Could this be caused by the diameter being too large for my bore?

Thanks,
HH

[Bret4207]

I would not think .3595 is "too large" with a light load like that in a 357 case. What may be happening is that the boolit is being "squeezed down" in the seater or crimp die. Essentially the die swages the boolit a little smaller. Pull a few loaded boolits and make sure they are still .3595. Dies meant for jacketed bullets tend to be a mite small for larger cast and if the .3595 boolits are getting swaged down to .358 that may give you poor grouping.

It could be a dozen other things too, but start there and see.