Smelted my wheel weights. Now what?

[Flintlock Hokie]

In a thread I wrote on 3/28 ("My wheel weight composition isn't what I've seen published!") I wrote that my wheel weight lead had much lower antimony and tin than stated in the Fryxell and Applegate article. I now believe this was due to two reasons:

1) I used too many stick-on weights that diluted the antimony and tin.
2) The melt got too hot (didn't have a thermometer then) and I skimmed off those metals as oxides and threw them away (despite having fluxed with candle wax).

I got a thermometer and have smelted lots more weights and they made some beautiful ingots. I kept the temperature low and there was no evidence of oxides floating on the melt. Also, I fluxed with sawdust.

Now what?

I've lost access to my X-ray fluorescence alloy analyzer. It seems the safety police at work have decreed lead to be a chemical with "significant health risk". Hence any working with lead requires a written plan including protective equipment that will be used, a cleanup plan, a formal hazard analysis and approval of the safety police. What a crock!

Fryxell and Applegate report that WW + 2% tin makes a good all around alloy. That's with the WW being 3% Sb, 0.3% Sn. What's your experience? Do today's WWs work with that mix? Where's a good source for tin? I know about Rotometals. Are there any other good ways to get tin (e.g., solder)?

[40Super]

I've not been doing this for long but I have made quite a few bullets already with WW alloy and they make pretty good ones as is,I have gotten some tin from Rotometals(the cut up rods) and added about 2oz per 18lb lead and it made some really ,really nice bullets,around 12bhn air cooled and 20+water drop and aged a week. That tells me that adding anything to the WW isn't needed for pistol(even adding pure lead can be done) and many rifle applications, though there are others here that have alot more experience in rifles and cast that could tell you more about that.

I have some auto's that require a harder bullet to stop feed ramp damage and those I am adding lino,hardcast, or Lyman#2 to, but that is purely prference .

[Flintlock Hokie]

My anticipated uses are:

round balls for my .50 cal flintlock - I'll use WW "as is." I've already shot some. I had to use a thinner patch, but they load easily and are accurate. I put quite a few in the 10 ring on a buffalo target at 50 yds this weekend.

.38 spl
148 gr WC light loads
140 gr SWC somewhat hotter

.357 mag
probably 140 gr SWC at around 1150-1200 fps (I can't seem to do much better with my 4" barrel

[BadDaditood]

if you can still find affordable lead/tin solder buy it up! the new lead free solder is really expensive and has a lotta goofy stuff in it like bismuth and copper.

Booliteers here find pewter in thrift shops, Salvation Army/GoodWill stores (not the wife's china cabinet).

Don't do what i did: i bought some nice heavy plates of fake pewter and then searched here for threads on how to identify real pewter. [smilie=1:

This forum has saved me a few dollars while only costing hundreds :)

PS you want pure lead for the frontstuffer, not WW

[cabezaverde]

Try what you have as it is. If it is difficult to cast good boolits, add a litle tin.

[40Super]

I was thinking the same thing about the fintlock. Pure lead is most often used for them.I do not know precisly why,those more informed on this can say, I don't shoot lead in my muzzleloader.

[Flintlock Hokie]

PS you want pure lead for the frontstuffer, not WW

I've corresponded with the founder of Cast Performance Bullet Co. He's a former muzzleloader competitor and rifle builder. He claims the adage of only using pure lead originated with the renewed interest in muzzleloaders around the time of the bicentennial. He told me, "If you read the writings of Southerland, Forsyth, Clifton, Cody, and Ashley you'll see ALL of them recommended hardening the balls." He claims to have placed in many matches and shot many 1-½ inch groups at 100 yds with WW balls.

I'm casting these especially to hunt elk this fall. I've taken two black bears with my flintlock shooting a pure lead ball. I recovered both balls. They had flattened to ⅞" diameter! While they did break bone in their travels, the penetration isn't sufficient for a large elk. This fellow has witnessed 6 elk taken with a .490 patched round ball and all but one passed completely through! They were all WW balls.

As I mentioned above, I put quite a few WW balls in the 10 ring of a standard NMLRA buffalo target at 50 yards this Sunday. They shoot as well as my pure lead balls.

[BadDaditood]

most interesting info!

thanks :)

[fredj338]

I think you are over thinking it. You are making bullets. Just keep the sticky wts form the clip wts & be happy.

[sqlbullet]

fred has given good advice. Everthing you are loading will appreciate softer alloys more than hard ones. A 50/50 mix of COWW/SOWW will suit what you are shooting just fine.

As long as the boolits fit.

I haven't tracked down you other posts, so maybe you have done this and discussed it on the boards. Slug your barrels. If you boolits are not sized at least .001" over the measured groove diameter of your guns, then you will have issues and changing alloy won't help.

I shoot straight isotope lead, similar in COWW in 10mm. 205 grain RFN are pushed 1250 fps, and the Lee 175 SWC are pushed well above that. Same alloy, water quenched from the mold, goes in my M1 Garand gas checked and pushed 1950-2000 fps, and in my 300 win mag pushed 2200-2300 fps.

I shoot paper. If I were hunting with the alloy at those rifle velocities I would up the tin content to help the boolits stay together and penetrate. For paper, malleability doesn't matter to me.

Good luck!

[Flintlock Hokie]

... Just keep the sticky wts from the clip wts & be happy.

I think the stick-on weights are going to end up as decoy anchors!

[cabezaverde]

Noooooo, don't do that. You can sell them here.

[John Boy]

Fryxell and Applegate report that WW + 2% tin makes a good all around alloy. That's with the WW being 3% Sb, 0.3% Sn. What's your experience?
A 0.5% of Sn works good too with Bhn 13.5 WW's. Why waste the tin?

25 shots @ 100yds with 14 in the ragged hole: 535gr Postell and black powder

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd220/Meadowmucker/Targets/LymanPostell100Yds.jpg

[10 ga]

COWW make good patched roundball fodder. Save the stick SOWW and when you have a bunch use them to cast a bunch of roundballs, they'll be a bit smaller and heavier than the COWW in 50 cal rb. but a slightly thicker patch like with the straight lead will work fine. Hope all well in DE. I'm a VT "72". Best, 10 ga

[Larry Gibson]

Hmmmmmm....+2% tin....that sounds aweful familiar;-)

Adding 2% tin is definately not a "waste" of tin. Adding 2% tin to WWs brings the composition up to a 2.5 -3 tin to .3.5 4 antimony mix which allows the antimony to mix in solution with the lead better. This creates a much better alloy. The BHN of AC'd bullets will be 14-17 with 16-17 BHn being the most prevailent after 10 days or so of aging. That and much better casting quality than with straight WWs.

I get my pure tin from Bill Ferguson down in Arizon. It seems expensive at first but 2% of a 20 lb pot is only 6.4 ounces of tin. So 1 lb of tin is good for 50 lbs of COWWs.

Larry Gibson

[Flintlock Hokie]

WW lead round balls shoot pretty good out of my flintlock today. The sun gave me fits for a while, reflecting off my front sight. Once I figured out the correct sight picture, the balls started behaving. The target below was shot at 50 yards with open sights: iron rear, nickel silver front. I fired 10 shots. The bottom one was the first. (Gotta show the bad with the good.) I can't find the 10th.

These 0.490 round balls were pushed through a Goetz barrel by 50 grains Goex (though I prefer Swiss) using a 0.015" patch. No one has ever mistaken me for a true marksman, so I'm very happy with this target.

http://home.comcast.net/~flintlock.50/pwpimages/IMG_9836_2.jpg

I used a very scientific test to measure the the difference in a pure lead ball and a WW ball. I squeezed each in my very small bench vise as hard as I could with one hand. The WW ball is obviously harder, yet it shot just fine. I just had to use a thinner patch. I'm hoping one of my WW balls will let the air out of an elk this October. (For that I'll use 90 gr Swiss, which at chronographs 2020 fps MV from my rifle.)

http://home.comcast.net/~flintlock.50/pwpimages/IMG_9854.JPG

Pure lead won't get the job done on an elk. The ball below is 7/8 inch diameter and 3/16 inch thick after breaking some bone during its travels inside a small black bear. It penetrated only about 18 inches. I want double that for an elk. (That bear was delicious and the bearskin rug sure looks nice.)

http://home.comcast.net/~flintlock.50/pwpimages/IMG_1906.JPG

It took me a while to wade through the forums and figure out how to cast, but with lots of good help from the folks here it looks like I'm on to something.

Thanks and shoot straight!

[40Super]

Could you use a mini-ball style bullet? Something like those would be bad medicine for elk, plus they would wiegh more and increase accurate distance a bit( even if it's a smoothbore). Maybe not as "traditional" though if thats what your going after.

[Flintlock Hokie]

My Getz barrel has a 1 in 66 inch twist. That's great for round balls, but too slow for conicals.

[SlippShodd]

The bottom one was the first. (Gotta show the bad with the good.) I can't find the 10th.


Well it's obvious where the 10th round went -- right through that gaping hole in the middle! [smilie=w:

mike

[10 ga]

Flintlock, If you're going after elk I'd go ahead and jump the load up to 110 gr of that nice Swiss. That is the load I use in my .50 66 twist hammer gun. It will drive that hard RB pretty deep even with a shot out to 85 yds. Don't have a chrony but guessin it's 22C fps or better at the muzzle. It rocks but it kills. Best, 10 ga

[Flintlock Hokie]

I only have one data point with 100 grains of Swiss, but it pushed a .495 ball at 2140 fps MV. (Since round balls fly like they have parachutes attached, I always back-calculate the MV using the chronograph velocity and distance to the chronograph.)

I haven't chronographed many shots with that much Swiss. 90 gr was giving me 2055 fps MV. With Goex, the velocities were starting to scatter quite a bit with that much powder. Maybe the scatter was due to debris reaching the chronograph. Also, I was getting less incremental velocity for the extra powder. I may do some more velocity testing with Swiss again.