AL7 in 30-30?

[Yukoner]

I have about half a can of AL5. Anyone tried using it with cast 175s?

Thanks,
Ted

[williamwaco]

AL5 or AL7?

Which is it?

[nfg]

That powder is so old I couldn't find any references to ANY rifles and only a few for pistol and shotgun in Wolfe's "Propellent Profiles".

Half a can???? I would spread it on the Petunias...

The fact that you don't know what changes have occured to the powder chemistry these many years would put me off ANY use.

I got rid of all my old Alcan powders over 15 years ago after one particular AL7 .357 Mag load started going squirrely.

[Poygan]

I'm still using AL-8, AL-7 and AL-5 but in pistol calibers. Its working just fine....

[OuchHot!]

I still have some of the 5,7 and 8 but have never found more than a smattering of data for handguns. I would look at AL 7 as sorta "uniqueish" but I am not sure that it is a viable risk. It is a real good handgun powder. MAybe you need to buy another pistol?

[Freischütz]

You'll find some AL-7 data in the Speer Nr 8 manual.

[OuchHot!]

I didn't realize that Speer #8 had data for 30-30.....I knew they had it for pistol, that is the bulk of my archive of alcan data.

[DLCTEX]

Good pistol and shotgun powder, but I've never tried it in rifle.

[WaywardSon]

I have also been looking for data for this powder, with limited success. I reload several pistol calibers...38, 357, 10mm, 357 Sig, 44 mag & 45 acp. Given the price of powder today, it sure would be nice to find some data. I am comfortable with the way it has been stored for the last 20 years, which is in my basement. Dry & cool.

I have about half of an 8 lb. canister, which is around $120 worth of powder in todays world. According to my burn rate chart, it is right between HS-5 & HS-6...neither of which I have ever used.

In the opinion of the experts here, would it be acceptable practice to look at starting loads for those two powders, "average" those charge weights & use that as a baseline for a starting load in the calibers listed? The fact that it sounds reasonable to me doesn't mean that it is.

FWIW...I do not have access to a chronograph.

[Yukoner]

AL5 or AL7?

Which is it?

Originally posted as AL7, edited title to AL5, twice, but it stays as AL7.

Must be a glitch in the software. No problem, it is AL5 that I am asking about.

Thanks,
Ted

[45-70 Chevroner]

If all you have is a half can, I would through it out and forget it. I have looked on the Net and I can't even find a loading chart for it. There are plenty of guys with suggestions but I would not bet a gun on it.

[OuchHot!]

WaywardSon I have done what you suggest and lived to tell the tale....not that I recommend the practise to others. The Alcan powders have been well behaved in handgun loads for me. They sure tie up some powder measures, though! I have no idea about AL5 or 7 in 30-30, however.

[WaywardSon]

Originally posted as AL7, edited title to AL5, twice, but it stays as AL7.

Must be a glitch in the software. No problem, it is AL5 that I am asking about.

Thanks,
Ted

I looked through a couple of manuals from the 50's & 60's and the only references I found for either powder were for handguns...38 Special and .357 Magnum specifically. No references whatsoever for a rifle cartridge. My guess is that AL-5 would be too fast for anything but a reduced load in 30-30...and I found no references as to it's suitability for that. Experimental territory=probably not a good idea. YMMV

[WaywardSon]

WaywardSon I have done what you suggest and lived to tell the tale....not that I recommend the practise to others. The Alcan powders have been well behaved in handgun loads for me. They sure tie up some powder measures, though! I have no idea about AL5 or 7 in 30-30, however.

So as to not further hi-jack this one:grin: I will probably start a thread to see if I can figure out a way to safely use up my 4# of AL-7....cheap person that I am....

[Yukoner]

No question it would have to be reduced loading in the 30-30.

Just can't bring myself to throw out $15 worth of powder. Off to the reloading bench. Going to use Unique data and load up some plinking rounds.

No problem on the hijack at all. Go for it! :)

Ted

[WaywardSon]

No question it would have to be reduced loading in the 30-30.

Just can't bring myself to throw out $15 worth of powder. Off to the reloading bench. Going to use Unique data and load up some plinking rounds.

No problem on the hijack at all. Go for it! :)

Ted

If you are talking about actually using Unique...fine. If you are talking about using AL-5 with Unique data...maybe not so much. Unique is quite a bit faster than AL-5.

If it were me, I would look at the data for Winchester WSF or Hodgdon's HS-5, as the burn rate for AL-5 is right between them. I would load a few with the starting charge listed for the HS-5 and see how they feel. It is possible there is no data for reduced loads in 30/30 with these powders...I haven't looked. If the first one seems anything but mild I would probably quit right there.

My .02 which is probably worth substantially less. I've done a lot of reduced loads with pistol calibers....not rifle. Be careful.

[Yukoner]

Good advice, WaywardSon, thanks!

The very reason I was going to use Unique as the reference point was because I knew it was faster than AL5. The Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook shows a 173 grain GC in a 30-30 at 1203 fps with 7 grains of Unique. Max is listed as 10.4 gr, so 10 gr should be safe.

I am going to load 8 gr, and call it a go if accuracy is decent. That will be about 350 rounds of fun! :)

Appreciate your research!

Ted

[WaywardSon]

Good advice, WaywardSon, thanks!

The very reason I was going to use Unique as the reference point was because I knew it was faster than AL5. Appreciate your research!

Ted

Ted....I frankly do not know if it is good advice or not...just my idea of what I would try. If I were you....I would talk to someone smarter than me. Just sayin'

[Yukoner]

Hi ho! Hi ho! It's off to the range I go!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/laketrouter/180cast.jpg

Five with poly tufting, five without.

Tomorrow morning......will post results.

Good night,
Ted

[Echo]

Way to go, Ted! Good lookin' rounds, and I'll bet you find a good load.

[Yukoner]

If all you have is a half can, I would through it out and forget it. I have looked on the Net and I can't even find a loading chart for it. There are plenty of guys with suggestions but I would not bet a gun on it.

No loading chart, but it is listed in burning rate charts. http://home.hiwaay.net/~stargate/powder/powder.htm

Ted

[Yukoner]

Trip to the range was satisfactory. Pressure appeared quite low. Doing it again using 10 gr. and will report back.

Ted

[Yukoner]

Okay, everything working good: 10 gr gives 1335 fps average with the tufting, and surprisingly 1355 without the tufting. Anyone have any idea why the tufted gives 20 fps less velocity?

Ted

[Yukoner]

More shooting with 10 gr and CCI 200 primers. The velocity is very consistent: 1350 without tufting , SD 7, shoots into less than four inches at 100 yd with these tired old eyes, glasses, and factory iron sights. :)

Seated out as shown, they will not feed from the mag of course, however seated so they come up on the elevator properly, they are equally accurate.

Going to try them in my scoped Marlin next. Oddly, they will only chamber in the Marlin with great difficulty at the pictured length. The throat is much shorter than that in the '94. They will go in, but the rifling is well-engraved on an extracted round, so will be tested seated to the crimp groove.

Ted

[popper]

Weight of filler is added to weight of CB. Your accuracy is about what I get with Unique in my 336 30-30, scoped.

[Yukoner]

The polyester tufting weighs essentially nothing, less than a grain, so that is not likely the reason for the lower velocity.

Thanks for the report on your 336, popper. Guess my eyes are still workIng not too bad with glasses. 8-)

Ted

[Yukoner]

Okay, slightly lower temperature, about the same velocity, 1350 fps using same load, 10 grains of powder.

Was surprised to see the bullet easily penetrates 8" of green spruce. The more I think about this, the more I am tempted to give this load a try in the field. Basically, what we have here is a 22 lr with a bullet that is four times the weight. :)

Ted

[marlinman80]

I Like you! I was just saying the same thing about my load of 9.5 grains of trail boss with the same boolit just a little slower. It is everything you could want out of a 22 it just happens to throw a 160 grain bullet. Mine went through 8-9" of poplar with full curl mushrooming 100% expansion i cut'em out just to see for myself.

[Yukoner]

Pictures of the bullet if you can, please. None of mine were recovered.

Ted

[popper]

I used lasercast, 2 RD designs in my 336. Tried Unique and 2400, Unique seems to be more accurate. Your AL5 is between them. I used dacron with the 2400, PB CBs. Still a WIP. Wild guess is that the filler changes the actual burn rate. I'd appreciate pics, I'm playing with alloy now.