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Stick_man
05-01-2012, 05:05 PM
I was just curious about liability of packages going through the mail that are not "allowed" to. If you purchase something that is restricted, do you have any liability exposure if the vendor ships it through the USPS? What about if you told them specifically NOT to ship USPS and that it had to go UPS as ORM-D?

Any thoughts about that?

tomme boy
05-01-2012, 05:09 PM
If you accept it, knowing what it is, You are just as liable as the shipper.

Jim
05-01-2012, 05:10 PM
As I understand it, the responsibility is on the shipper, not the addressee.

Duckiller
05-01-2012, 05:17 PM
If you have real concerns not idle curiosity I suggest you consult an attorney not this board. For idle curiosity I would agree with Jim.

tomme boy
05-01-2012, 08:32 PM
Not in this case. If youu know it is a restricted item, and you accept it, you are just as guilty as the person who sent it.

They have already convicted people shipping ammo.

Stick_man
05-01-2012, 08:53 PM
Not in this case. If youu know it is a restricted item, and you accept it, you are just as guilty as the person who sent it.

They have already convicted people shipping ammo.

Do you have any references for that? Seems like if you buy something from somebody, and they have to ship it, it is their responsibility to make sure they are following the rules. Since the purchaser (or receiver) doesn't have much (if any) control over how somebody ships something, what are they supposed to do, reject it and send it back? Something just doesn't make much sense here.

wv109323
05-01-2012, 08:55 PM
This actually happened here in West Virginia about 20-25 years ago. The actor Bob Denver ( Gilligan on Gilligan's Island) lived near Princeton,WV. Mary Ann sent him some pot thru the mail (USPS) as a joke. The USPS detected that it was pot and allowed it to be delivered.
When delivered and Bob took posession in his driveway he was arrested for posession of a controlled substance.

hornsurgeon
05-01-2012, 08:59 PM
i can't see someone being convicted for receiving ammo deliverd to them via usps unless a signature has been required. if the box is left in your mailbox, you have had no choice in the matter. you had no option of refusal.

the shipper could be the one to be prosecuted i would think.

gandydancer
05-01-2012, 09:05 PM
Who can ship ammo with USPS? anyone like a dealer or manufacturer? The reason I ask is I have had ammo shipped to me from a web dealer through the USPS. I admit at least 4 or 5 years ago was the last time I ordered any. GD

Stick_man
05-01-2012, 09:57 PM
This actually happened here in West Virginia about 20-25 years ago. The actor Bob Denver ( Gilligan on Gilligan's Island) lived near Princeton,WV. Mary Ann sent him some pot thru the mail (USPS) as a joke. The USPS detected that it was pot and allowed it to be delivered.
When delivered and Bob took posession in his driveway he was arrested for posession of a controlled substance.

I think this is comparing apples to oranges. Ammo (or restricted items like primers, powder, or primed brass) is not illegal to posess (generally). The pot was a controlled substance and he got arrested for POSESSION, not for having it sent through the mail. Also, if it was sent as a joke, he likely did not know what was in the package when he received it. I have not heard of anywhere that it is illegal to posess primed brass even by a felon.

JeffinNZ
05-01-2012, 10:31 PM
Domestic, I agree with Jim. International, both. The shipper has to satisfy requirements at origin, the consignee has to satify requirements on receipt.

EG: If I order a high capacity magazine from the US and the vendor ships it to me satifying the US requirements then he/she is covered. If I don't have the required paperwork to receive the magazine then I am in the 'gun' but there is no comeback on the shipper. I know this for sure as in 2005 I was in the US and posted myself back some materials I had purchased from Cheaper Than Dirt and had shipped to Alabama where I visited. One item was a 30 shot detachable magazine for a SKS I owned at the time. I genuinely was unaware of the restriction and as luck would have it the mag got through. Since that time I have desposed of both rifle and mag in seperate, legitimate directions.

Jammer Six
05-02-2012, 04:01 AM
There is no chance, none, zero, that I would accept any type of legal advice off an internet forum.

The one thing you can count on is that it's wrong.

Mooseman
05-02-2012, 05:11 AM
Well , I am sure that with some research on the Internet that the written Regs. can be found so read them for yourself , and it will be spelled out in plain english.
Lawyers use words like "alleged" or "intent" or "unknowingly" for a reason...

Jammer Six
05-02-2012, 06:09 AM
The federal statutes, regulations and state codes are the smallest and simplest part of the law.

The important part, how those laws are applied, takes a lifetime of study to understand even a small portion of it, and then to keep current on it. That's why lawyers specialize.

Consider this: federal statutes are different in Florida than in California, and different again in Delaware.

My point stands.

Taylor
05-02-2012, 06:49 AM
I have been involved on several occassion's over my career,where the Postal Inspector's watch people who recieve things they shoudn't in the mail.They let them get several packages,and then arrest them.If it is on your porch or in the mail box,it is considered delivered.Most items are scanned bar codes now,plus more require a signature.If you know it's wrong,stay away from it.

Freightman
05-02-2012, 08:16 AM
Bought a Makarov off of Gunbroker years ago with 10 boxes of ammo, gave the shipper my FFL's address and sent him a copy of his licenses. A few days later a package shows up in my mail box, you guessed it the pistol and 10 boxes of ammo and I wasn't home. I took the pistol to my FFL and went through the nics ck as I didn't want to be trapped by a sting. Called the shipper and told him and he rudly called me an idiot and slammed the phone down. Got ahold of GB and they said they woul take care of it, I never saw his name come up again and didn't find it listed in the search a couple of months later. No idea of what they did but I did what was required .

montana_charlie
05-02-2012, 12:54 PM
Stick man's original question and his following replies seem to indicate the he is to be the receiver in this shipping deal, and that he is hopeful that any problems will be directed toward the shipper.

Also apparent is the necessity of marking ORM-D on the package and using UPS, so I suppose we can assume a shipment of ammunition is being considered.

Knowing that UPS shipping prices can be noticeably higher than USPS flat rate shipping, I am guessing this whole thing boils down to 'the receiver' hoping to save some money.

I could have this figured wrong. But, if I'm right, there is only one good answer ...

CM

Stick_man
05-02-2012, 04:23 PM
Stick man's original question and his following replies seem to indicate the he is to be the receiver in this shipping deal, and that he is hopeful that any problems will be directed toward the shipper.

Also apparent is the necessity of marking ORM-D on the package and using UPS, so I suppose we can assume a shipment of ammunition is being considered.

Knowing that UPS shipping prices can be noticeably higher than USPS flat rate shipping, I am guessing this whole thing boils down to 'the receiver' hoping to save some money.

I could have this figured wrong. But, if I'm right, there is only one good answer ...

CM

Charlie, there is a chance that you are partially correct on the first assumption. Here is the "rest of the story"... I made a deal for some primed brass from an individual on another forum. I sent him the funds to cover the purchase and then, a couple days later, received a PM from him indicating a package had been shipped via USPS. My concern is that this package contains the primed brass. I am expecting several packages in the mail over the next few days. I just hope his "USPS" was actually a typo and he meant to write "UPS".

Cost of shipping has never been an issue in this transaction. I was assured it would be shipped legally.

Now that it is "in the mail" along with other packages from other locations and with totally unrelated items, I am not sure what to do. Without a tracking number, I don't think there is any way to locate the package and stop delivery of it before it reaches me.