Does sizing after quenching soften the surface?

[fatelvis]

The difference is immediately felt as far as resistance sizing quenched boolits apposed to air-cooled boolits. Much harder to resize quenched boolits.. My question is: does sizing quenched boolits soften, or otherwise alter the surface hardness of the boolit? I'm using WWs with 12" 95/5 solder mix in a 20 lb pot. Thanks!

[leftiye]

Yes, it does, but just the surface thou or too. Anything that works lead breaks down the crystalline structure resulting in soft lead, including swaging and smearing.

[williamwaco]

I believe it changes the surface but I am not sure how or how much.

I did a test several months ago of how BNH changes with time after casting.
I tested bullets un-sized and also sized.

The sized bullets never got as hard as the un-sized and the change was much less.

The best advice is just air cool them.
Quenching does make them harder but they do not need to be harder.
The original .44 Magnum was developed with cast bullets of BNH 10-11.
You don't need anything harder than that.


.

[stubshaft]

What Leftiye said.

[Jack Stanley]

Something I wonder about along the same lines .

If you were to size and seat gas check on a rifle bullet using a water soluable lube . Then wash the lube off and heat treat the bullets . Would that have the effect of hardening the bullets and annealing the gas checks at the same time ?


Jack

[Calamity Jake]

Something I wonder about along the same lines .

If you were to size and seat gas check on a rifle bullet using a water soluable lube . Then wash the lube off and heat treat the bullets . Would that have the effect of hardening the bullets and annealing the gas checks at the same time ?


Jack

Yes, that's how I do my 22's for the AR and 30's for the Garrand.

[kelbro]

Something I wonder about along the same lines .

If you were to size and seat gas check on a rifle bullet using a water soluable lube . Then wash the lube off and heat treat the bullets . Would that have the effect of hardening the bullets and annealing the gas checks at the same time ?


Jack

I do that but I use the Redding case lube. Wipe it off after sizing. Only smells for a few minutes after I put them in the toaster oven.

[44man]

What depth would sizing soften? .0005"? Rifling is deeper anyway. I never seen any difference in accuracy even if I don't size the boolits for weeks.

[Bushrat]

RCBS cast boolit books says nothing is gained by water dropping and then sizing the hardened surface. It recommends either not sizing or sizing and then hardening in the oven.

It is a good read

[Jack Stanley]

What depth would sizing soften? .0005"? Rifling is deeper anyway. I never seen any difference in accuracy even if I don't size the boolits for weeks.

I think when using pistol bullets and other that have a lot of body it might not make much difference . In the case of a 311299 bullet and other like it , trying to size it may bend the nose just enough to make it wobble in flight . Sizing in a push through die wouldn't cause this I don't believe but sizers like RCBS/Lyman may cause it .

But then , my 311299 casts at .315" :shock: and reducing to thirty caliber would be a mess if you're not careful .

Jack

[Bret4207]

IME it also depends on how much you are sizing. Taking a batch that runs about .311 and putting them through an actual .311 you won't move much metal. Run them through a .308 die and you do. The thing to remember with sizing is that you are swaging the metal, the bigger the reduction the more metal you move and the deeper the effect goes. Take a .323 down to .312 and I doubt much of the boolit will remain free of work softening.

[44man]

IME it also depends on how much you are sizing. Taking a batch that runs about .311 and putting them through an actual .311 you won't move much metal. Run them through a .308 die and you do. The thing to remember with sizing is that you are swaging the metal, the bigger the reduction the more metal you move and the deeper the effect goes. Take a .323 down to .312 and I doubt much of the boolit will remain free of work softening.
Exactly! Damage to GG's and crimp grooves will get out of hand too.
It is best to start with a boolit very close or exact as cast then to try and reduce boolits.
I really hate to use lube sizers and prefer Lee push through. I have all kinds lapped to what I need. I try to make my molds so they just touch here and there in the size dies and use them to remove excess lube.
The least sizing is always best.

[runfiverun]

if you get the oven hot enough to anneal a gas check you'll melt your boolits.
heat treating is done around 400* annealing is done at 700*

[res45]

Something I wonder about along the same lines .

If you were to size and seat gas check on a rifle bullet using a water soluble lube . Then wash the lube off and heat treat the bullets . Would that have the effect of hardening the bullets and annealing the gas checks at the same time ?


Jack

I use a little Imperial sizing wax for bullets I plan on apply the gas check and then heat treating. It's amazing just how little it takes. I generally only do this for bullets I plan on shooting in my SKS rifle at the higher velocities.

[gofastman]

The difference is immediately felt as far as resistance sizing quenched boolits apposed to air-cooled boolits. Much harder to resize quenched boolits.. My question is: does sizing quenched boolits soften, or otherwise alter the surface hardness of the boolit? I'm using WWs with 12" 95/5 solder mix in a 20 lb pot. Thanks!
I read that as long as sizing is done shortly after the bullet is quenched, roughly 30min max, there is very little change in hardness. I don't remember the reasoning, it was something along the lines of the bullet's grain structure no having fully set until they sit for a while.

[44man]

I read that as long as sizing is done shortly after the bullet is quenched, roughly 30min max, there is very little change in hardness. I don't remember the reasoning, it was something along the lines of the bullet's grain structure no having fully set until they sit for a while.
That is true but you will need to stop casting and size, then go back to casting.
My .476" boolits harden and expand to .478" with time but when I size them, they still go in the same hole. I gave up with the worry.
I have just dumped so many things that did not affect anything because I have gotten real lazy in my old age. :bigsmyl2:
There must be a million things to get anal over with cast but in the end, none really matter. If you have a good boolit and load, you will find it very hard to harm anything.

[Colorado4wheel]

Then explain why water dropping and sizing makes a difference in my 9mm pistol load? If sizing ruins the water dropping then they should be "as if" I never water dropped them. Reality for me is water dropping and sizing produces zero leading and not water dropping and sizing produces leading.

[44man]

Then explain why water dropping and sizing makes a difference in my 9mm pistol load? If sizing ruins the water dropping then they should be "as if" I never water dropped them. Reality for me is water dropping and sizing produces zero leading and not water dropping and sizing produces leading.
It is because water dropping toughens the boolit. It never does any harm and is easy.