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View Full Version : Get a conversion, or a whole new gun?



MikeS
04-24-2012, 10:23 AM
Hi All.

I'm joining a rifle & pistol club, and they do a lot of shooting of .22 pistols. I currently don't own a .22 pistol other than a Ruger Bearcat, which isn't exactly what I would call a target pistol. I've been thinking for a while of getting a conversion unit for my 1911, but I'm not sure which ones if any will work with my gun. I have a Taurus PT1911, and Kimber states that their conversions will not work with a Taurus. Does anyone know if the Ceiner conversion works with a PT1911? Or any other conversions that are known to work with the Taurus PT1911?

Or am I just better off buying another gun? I've been thinking of getting a Ruger 22/45 pistol. I in fact had one last year for about a week, then it broke, and I couldn't fix it, the gunshop's gunsmith couldn't fix it, and it needed to be sent off to Ruger, so the shop let me put the purchase price towards another gun I had been looking at. I now know that the Ruger's are a PITA to take apart to clean, and can deal with it's problems, and I think the Ruger's are one of the least expensive 22 autos, so would probably be the one I would get. Or possibly one of the dedicated 1911 22 cal pistols? Does anyone have any other suggestions?

popper
04-24-2012, 10:46 AM
I like the mark III standard better than the 4 due to the grip. Bull barrel for target shooting. >1000 rnds and I cleaned it 3 times, I think. Buckmark is much lighter, I decided against the Neos. Conversion is about as much $ as Mark III and probably not as accurate. No, it is NOT hard to clean but there are a few tricks to get it back together. I usually just use spray cleaner on the receiver - to get the gunk out of the springs.

ku4hx
04-24-2012, 10:55 AM
Sounds like an excuse to buy another gun. I've had good luck with conversions, but there's just something right-feeling shooting a cartridge in a gun designed for it.

We have a Ruger Standard model, Ruger Mark II Target and a Ruger Mark III Target and all are accurate and reliable. Reassembly of these guns can be a mite vexing, but it just takes a little practice with knowing how the little internal pieces need to be situated before seating the mainspring housing. After that ... child's play.

bobthenailer
04-24-2012, 11:30 AM
I have a Kimber 22 lr conversion and it works on Colt, SA & Caspian frames , i like it alot except that the slide doesent lock back on the last shot , but then most dont as the slide is aluminum and if they do the slides steel or it has a 2 piece slide & barrel assy & there alot more money.
A friend has been useing a Kimber 22 lr conversion kit on a Taurus 1911 , and was a drop in fit.
I would probley go with the Browning Buck Mark, several people use them in my BE league as well as Rugers , S&W 21 & 41 & HI Standard which is what ive been useing since 1976.

Iron Mike Golf
04-24-2012, 12:41 PM
It all depends on why you want to go to rimfire. If it's to make you better with your 1911, then there's a real good argument for conversion, if you can find one that works good with your PT1911: everything that is hand-to-gun interface is identical, since all the controls are on the frame and you are using the same frame.

If it's general marksmanship and doing that with less expensive ammo, then you might be better satisfied with a purpose built rimfire.

Huntducks
04-24-2012, 01:00 PM
I have a pair of Ruger MK-1 a bull barrel and a standard along with 2 Hi-Standards and a Colt match target, last year I bought a Sig 22RF what a sweet gun:guntootsmiley:

ShooterAZ
04-24-2012, 01:09 PM
A couple of years ago I bought one of Kimber's 1911 .22LR conversions. While it's no Marvel, It functions flawlessly and I am quite happy with it. If you are looking for the very utmost in accuracy, take a look at the Marvel conversions. They don't come cheap, but will be a guaranteed tack driver.

40Super
04-24-2012, 01:30 PM
A local shooter was using a Marvel conversion on a 1911,can't remember what brand,I was just interested in the upper. It shot really nice,well designed piece. I would like one but I have a Rugar Mark II with the 8inch bull comp/target setup,I haven't shot anything that beats it so far.
For the price of the conversion, your almost to the price of a Mark III.

nicholst55
04-24-2012, 01:35 PM
Johnathon Arthur Ciener is under indictment for fraud, so I wouldn't even consider one of his conversions, personally. Ciener never offered any warranty or support (as in repair parts) for his conversions once they were sold. Think I'd look around for a used Ruger Mk 2 or 3, and see what I could find.

Recluse
04-24-2012, 01:52 PM
Don't know about the new conversions. I have one for the old Series 70 Colts and it has issues--so much so that I hardly even mess with it anymore. It stays packed way "just in case."

I'd buy a new .22 and get everything I wanted in a gun with no compromises that way.

:coffee:

lbaize3
04-24-2012, 02:00 PM
I just bought a new Ruger 22/45 Lite. It shoots better than I can hold it, just like my stainless 22/45. Beats the heck out of swaping a conversion unit out. I have a Ciener Unit and ended up buying a Caspian frame for it so I could use it as a stand alone unit. (Have you ever searched for a part that flew off your pistol at the gun range? That's why I hate to take them apart there....

Dave C.
04-24-2012, 02:09 PM
Mike:

If you go with a conversion get the Marvel. It is not cheap but it will shoot
under an inch at 50 yards. They make two types get the target one the other
is a plinker. If you go with the Ruger get the 5 and 1/2 " bull barrel. I shoot a
Marvel now and love it. The Marvel requires standard velocity ammo. The
Ruger will eat anything. I shot my out of the box Ruger well into Expert class
and I have shot my Marvel in to the 880's (out of a possible 900). The Ruger
has an advantage in that it is easy to sell quickly where as the Marvel needs a
target shooter. Both hold thier value well.

OK now, clear as mud?

Dave C.

Cadillo
04-24-2012, 02:10 PM
Get a Ruger Mark III. They are not at all hard to disassemble and reassemble once you learn that any all problems people have with assembly is their failure to look at the position of the hammer and hammer strut. They are MUCH easier to reassemble than a 1911 with recoil spring guide rod.

I like shooting a 1911, but find it very hard to reassemble. Ruger Mark II or Mark III is much easier.

Moonman
04-24-2012, 02:20 PM
Many people prefer a Ruger Mark II to a III.
Older High Standard 22 pistols are great.
Marvel Precision are expensive but good conversion units.

The Ruger's are basically cheap, accurate, eat about any speed ammo, and can be sold quickly.
A Ruger 22/45 with a red-dot sight makes a nice package.

rbertalotto
04-24-2012, 03:16 PM
The ONLY conversion to get is the Marvel.

I've had them all and they all have work through issues except for the Marvel.

This is one time that you get what you pay for!

BUT.........Unless you are buying a conversion to practice with your 1911, I'd simply buy a Ruger MK "whatever"........It's soo much easier just buying another gun.

Here's my Marvel conversion:

http://images58.fotki.com/v447/photos/3/36012/1601038/P1010006-vi.jpg

http://images58.fotki.com/v448/photos/3/36012/1601038/P1010004-vi.jpg

More pictures here:
http://public.fotki.com/Rbertalotto/things-that-go-bang/marvel_1911__22rf/

MikeS
04-25-2012, 01:09 AM
Well, I'm going shopping tomorrow. I kind of need to get a gun quickly, as I'm already signed up for a match next Sunday, I was planning on using a borrowed gun, but the person I borrowed it from had their other target 22 had a magazine malfunction, so they needed to finish the match with the pistol they brought for me to shoot. I don't know if it'll still be available for me to borrow next week, so I figure I might as well go ahead and get my own gun. I kind of missed the boat on the Rugers, as it looks like they no longer offer the 22/45 fully in stainless, the new ones have a plastic frame like their blued ones. Maybe I'll get lucky and my local gun dealer will have a used one in stock. If not, another local gun shop has the Walther made, Umarex imported 22 caliber 1911 (complete gun, not conversion) in stock last time I was there, so maybe I'll be able to work out a deal with one of them.

Along those lines, does anyone know the approximate value of a Smith model 60 38 Special that's been modified to be a pocket gun (the hammer's been bobed, and the front sight has been removed (ground off))? I'm really undecided, I have 2 Model 60's, the one I just described, and another one that's in excellent condition, which I know would probably have more value, BUT, I really want that gun to become my mother's carry gun once she gets used to it to the point that she'll feel comfortable carrying it.

That's another reason for joining the gun club I'm joining, my father used to be a member there years ago (before he got too sick to shoot on a regular basis), and my mother says that she feels comfortable there, and will shoot more often if we're shooting there. When I told her about the match this Sunday, she insisted on coming along to watch, and also to say hi to some of the old timers that are still there, so there really is a chance that she'll be shooting the 38 fairly soon. The other option is to trade away the one with sights, then mount a lazer grip on the one that's been modified, but I just wonder if a revolver with ONLY a lazer sight should be relied upon by somebody that's not a real shooter, anyone have any ideas on this?

captaint
04-25-2012, 11:55 AM
Mike - On the way to the match, stop by and you can borrow my Ruger Slabside for the day, if you're really in a hurry. Then go get you the Marvel and be done with it. I don't own one, but been considering one for some time. They are guaranteed (with test target) to shoot. Lot of bux though. enjoy Mike

soldierbilly1
04-25-2012, 01:35 PM
Mike S:
I own a 22 converter and I had a 22 Ruger Mark III. The converter was a Kimber converter made for my Kimber 1911. The Ruger 22 MK III was more accurate than the converter, although the converter was **** good and I still own it.
If you are serious about 22 competition, get the Mk III. It has a rail on top, you could put a scope or a red dot on this guy, and I did just that! the Mk III and the Buckmark also, are noted for their accuracy. (I had the 5.5" bull barrel.)
This is only my opinion, don't buy into the biz about the converter enabling you to shoot your 45 better. IMHO, it will not help you in this area. You will shoot one hand and left hand better, but that is it.

If you have the do-re-mi now, buy the Ruger III, buying it used is perfectly acceptable!

Either way, you're OK, good luck and center 'em up!
PS: assembly and reassembly on a Mk III is easy, go on Youtube, there is a girl that does it in about 15 secs!

billy boy

crabo
04-25-2012, 06:35 PM
I would buy a whole new gun. You can shoot one than the other by simply loading it. You can also shoot one, while a friend shoots the other. I've thought about a 1911 22, but I don't want to have to tear down one of my guns to do it.

MikeS
04-26-2012, 05:21 AM
Ok, getting a dedicated target pistol, and NOT a 1911 won out. I wound up buying a used Ruger Mark II with a 4" bull barrel. I got it at a fair price, and I took it out to the range, and with the help of a forum member we got it sighted in. When I got home I gave it a good cleaning, so now it's good to go! It has Ruger target laminated wood grips on it that are really nice! I also like the fact that it's got a steel frame, not the plastic (excuse me, I mean polymer) that they're making them out of these days. Thanks to everyone for their help, and even the offers to sell me guns, I really appreciate it all.

boltons75
04-26-2012, 05:34 AM
Check out the Browning buckmark, excellent 22 target pistols, and they have a better trigger out of the box than the Rugers. And the barrel can be swapped out easily.

Always carry, never tell.

popper
04-26-2012, 11:44 AM
You won't be sorry. I would have gotten the II but the III was less and was drilled and tapped for the top rail. I had a RD on it but didn't like it. My trigger is light enough, I'll get a double tap from recoil if not careful. Had a high standard target 22 50 yrs ago, I like the III better. Get one of those clip loader hold-down clips to save the thumb.

40Super
04-26-2012, 01:13 PM
Ya.the clip loading button shure does tend to get hard on the thumb when holding down the follower.

soldierbilly1
04-27-2012, 09:08 AM
Ok, getting a dedicated target pistol, and NOT a 1911 won out. I wound up buying a used Ruger Mark II with a 4" bull barrel. I got it at a fair price, and I took it out to the range, and with the help of a forum member we got it sighted in. When I got home I gave it a good cleaning, so now it's good to go! It has Ruger target laminated wood grips on it that are really nice! I also like the fact that it's got a steel frame, not the plastic (excuse me, I mean polymer) that they're making them out of these days. Thanks to everyone for their help, and even the offers to sell me guns, I really appreciate it all.

Mike:
'Ya done good! BTW, on the cleaning, you probly only need to clean the barrel often, don't know if you really need the entire pistol takedown every cleaning. Absolutely buy the loader, I got mine at Midway for a few dollars. If you don't you will destroy your fingers in no time! You can also get some rubber handgrips at Midway, dirt cheap also.
BTW, after about 3 - 4 K rounds, the trigger will loosen up and the pull will be sweet as hell!
good luck.
Billy boy

captaint
04-27-2012, 10:37 AM
Mike - You'll be happy with the Ruger. I have a couple of them and they do shoot very well. If you should have any trouble with extraction - just get one of the good aftermarket extractors. They're cheap enough and they work. I called Ruger once upon a time and told the lady I was having extraction problems and she says "no problem, just give me your address, and we'll send you a new one". Done... enjoy Mike

Cadillo
04-27-2012, 10:50 AM
You won't be sorry. I would have gotten the II but the III was less and was drilled and tapped for the top rail. I had a RD on it but didn't like it. My trigger is light enough, I'll get a double tap from recoil if not careful. Had a high standard target 22 50 yrs ago, I like the III better. Get one of those clip loader hold-down clips to save the thumb.

Better yet, get the "Ultimate Clip Loader" Yes I know it's a magazine and not a clip, but I didn't name it. Then go load your mags in less than one second each with no wear on the thumbs.

Echo
04-27-2012, 12:04 PM
When I became Distinguished I had Bob Day put one of his 30X conversions on my hardball gun, and have never taken it off. First time I shot it I shot a 298 Match course - a few days later I set a new USAF record that still stands (they don't shoot that particular match anymore, so it will stand to INFINITY!). The Day 30X would be my recommendation, but Bob has joined the feathery choir, and you would have to find one used.
That being said, >my< recommendation would have been to seek and find a good used Smith 41, HB if possible. The reason I say this is that, when one goes to a big pistol match, over half the guns (maybe 3/4) on the .22 line are Smith 41's. When I had the opportunity, and cash, I got one (used), and still have it as a backup to my Day. That was over 40 years ago.
Or. Any good, used High Standard, preferably the Military model.
And I don't mean to downgrade the Ruger - Jim Clark was one of the first to break 2600, and also one of the first to break 2650, and he did it with Rugers. They are good, accurate guns, and with the addition of a Clark trigger, can compete anywhere.
So. Your choice of the Ruger was a good choice. Now you just have to practice, with good coaching (or else you will learn bad habits, and do them real good), and you, too, can be a top shooter.

Char-Gar
04-27-2012, 12:41 PM
The only reason to get a conversion unit is if you can't afford a real 22. I compete with a Ruger MkII that has been worked over by Clark with a new Douglas barrel.

MikeS
04-27-2012, 06:30 PM
Well, the Ruger is more accurate than I am as it is, so I won't be doing any customizing to it anytime soon. I'm not sure if I even want to compete in 'real' matches, the one I shot last week, and the one I'm going to shoot Sunday are termed as 'fun' matches. The condition my heart is in, when I walk downrange to score, and fix targets, when I get back to the firing line I'm out of breath! Kind of hard to shoot real good when you're out of breath! But I'll compete in some more of the 'fun' matches, and if I ever decide I'm getting good enough to compete in other matches, then I'll consider getting a better gun. As it is, I might have a chance to get my father's Walther GSP back, as the person my father loaned it to has died. I just hope his wife doesn't think it was his, and sells it, although it's going to be kind of awkward to ask for it back, with both of them dead (my father & his friend) how's she to know if I'm telling the truth, or just trying to scam her out of a nice gun? If I get it, I get it, if I don't, oh well. So far I'm happy with the Ruger Mark II, another nice thing about buying a used gun is that it's already broken in, so I doubt it will be getting any smoother than it already is (which is MUCH smoother than the Mark III I had bought brand new). If I do get into real Bullseye shooting, I already own a 1911, even if it is a Taurus, with fixed sights. But the way I see it (and I'm probably wrong) sights being fixed doesn't mean anything, as long as it shoots where it's supposed to. I mean all adjustable sights do is make it easier to make the gun shoot where it's pointed, once it does that, there's no reason to adjust the sights. Along those lines, Is there really a reason to have a third gun to shoot bullseye? I mean you need a .22, a .45 and ANY centerfire handgun, and if I recall correctly, a .45 is a centerfire handgun, so why bother with a 3rd gun?